NFL ties

With the SF/STL game ending in a tie today, something that infrequently happens, it brings to question the true odds of a NFL tie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_tied_games gives a list of NFL tied games. I've never seen the bet, but what kind of odds are typically given (if ever) for a tie game?

AFAIK, the only bets involving ties that I have ever seen are at season level - i.e. "Will any game during the regular season end in a tie?" I wouldn't be surprised if the odds on this were lower than they used to be, with the new "the game doesn't end if the team that receives the OT kickoff scores a field goal in its opening possession" rule.

I remember one season where there no ties up through the final game, which came down to a kick in the last seconds of OT that was missed...but there was a roughing the kicker penalty, and with no time on the clock, the team got another chance at an FG and made it.

I think a nfl forfeit ends in a 1-0 score, Can a NFL game end 6-1 ?

Quote: Buzzard

I think a nfl forfeit ends in a 1-0 score, Can a NFL game end 6-1 ?

It is 2-0 here is the rule


According to the official NFL rulebook, a forfeit occurs: “... when a game is not played because of the failure or refusal of one team to participate. In that event, the other team, if ready and willing to play, is the winner by a score of 2-0” (the points earned in a safety). Why a two-point safety? Because those points are the league’s only scores that are not credited to any one player.

This little-discussed rule is even less frequently applied, since dating back to 1920 there has been just one forfeit. Specifically, December 4, 1921, when the Rochester Jeffersons lost by forfeit to the Washington Pros/Senators. Since the league was just a year old and this rule was not yet established, the referee scored the game 1-0. No word on whose stats got padded with the point.

and a 6-1 game ? Plus I think a player can be credited for a safety ?

deleted

Ace of spades will soon be telling us how ! Plus since the only forfeit in the NFL ended 1-0 I believe my answer is the correct one.

Quote: Buzzard

and a 6-1 game ? Plus I think a player can be credited for a safety ?

They can indeed be credited for a safety.

1-0 is possible in the CFL.

There also has been games with 2-0 result, and 0-0 game as well.

Quote: Buzzard

I think a nfl forfeit ends in a 1-0 score, Can a NFL game end 6-1 ?

No - at least the way I interpret the rules. Rule 11-1-2(d) says that a safety on a "successful" try is worth one point, and 11-3-2 says that only the offense can score on a safety.

In college (and high school), it's possible, if the offense scores a safety. Note that 7-1 is impossible. (Any even number > 6 is possible by adding safeties to 6-1; any odd number > 7 is possible by adding a field goal to 6-1 to get 9-1, and adding safeties to 9-1 to get higher odd numbers.)

As for forfeits:
NFL: 2-0 (rule 11-1-1-note).
College: 1-0, unless the winning team was already ahead, in which case that score is the final score (rule 8-1-2).

I think the NFL rule was 1-0 a while back; the only time I remember it being mentioned was on the last game of the regular season a few decades back when the possibility of a team forfeiting its last game to guarantee a playoff spot because a 1-0 loss would give it the point differential tiebreaker if it came down to that.

Actuallt i think it can. Somebody will correxct me if I am wrong OK. Possible, but will never happen. Like the 2-0 score. Gam will be
reschuled somehow. NFL will never forfeiy any revenue-producing game.

OK Team A score a touchdown. Then goes for a 2 point play. Just before crossing goal line Team a running back is stripped of the ball. He races to recover in the end zone, Team B defender falls on the ball. 1 point safety for Team B. Plus only original team A player can recover ball to score for team A. For obvious reasons, of course !

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Not true, as I have just stated.

Quote: Buzzard

OK Team A score a touchdown. Then goes for a 2 point play. Just before crossing goal line Team a running back is stripped of the ball. He races to recover in the end zone, Team B defender falls on the ball. 1 point safety for Team B. Plus only original team A player can recover ball to score for team A. For obvious reasons, of course !

I don't see how this would result in a safety. If the same thing occurred in a regular play from scrimmage, would not it be a touch back with Team B getting the ball on their 20? Surely the defense isn't punished for recovering a fumble on a point-after try or on a play from scrimmage.

Now if the NFL rules (as in other levels) allowed the defense on a point-after attempt to run the ball back down field for their own score, then another scenario would be possible: a Team B defender strips the ball and gains possession ahead of the goal line, but in his attempt to run it back, he retreats and carries the ball back behind the goal line he is defending and gets tackled there (or goes out of bounds). In that case, it could be a safety scored by Team A. I don't know how the NFL or any other level of play would score that -- haven't checked the rule books at all.

In the NFL the defense cannot score on a Try attempt. (Rule 11, Section 3, Article 2)

Quote: Buzzard

Actuallt i think it can. Somebody will correxct me if I am wrong OK. Possible, but will never happen. Like the 2-0 score. Gam will be
reschuled somehow. NFL will never forfeiy any revenue-producing game.

OK Team A score a touchdown. Then goes for a 2 point play. Just before crossing goal line Team a running back is stripped of the ball. He races to recover in the end zone, Team B defender falls on the ball. 1 point safety for Team B. Plus only original team A player can recover ball to score for team A. For obvious reasons, of course !

If Team B commits the safety, then Team A gets the point - it's 7-0, not 6-1.
Also, as somebody has pointed out, this would be a touchback, not a safety - in order for it to be a safety, the defense would have to be able to run the ball into its own end zone, but in the NFL, once the defense gets possession of a try attempt, the play ends.

In college, what can happen is something like this: the extra point is blocked, and Team B (the defense) picks it up and runs the ball, trying to score 2 points of their own, only for a Team A player to strip the ball loose and pick it up just short of the Team A goal line; the player then runs into his own end zone, where he is tackled for a safety (it's not a touchback as he advanced the ball from the field of play into the end zone). The reason this can't happen in the NFL is, the rules specifically say that only the original offense can score 1 point for a safety on a try.

It can also happen in high school, but it would have to be more convoluted, as once the defense gets control of the ball, the play is over. The offense would, for whatever reason, have to run the ball 97 yards in the wrong direction. I would not be surprised if this has happened at least once, if for no other reason than somebody just wanted to see how people would react to a football score where a team scored one point.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

... The reason this can't happen in the NFL is, the rules specifically say that only the original offense can score 1 point for a safety on a try.

I guess I'm still confused. How can the original offense possibly score a safety on a point-after try, if the play ends immediately when the defense gains possession? Would it not be necessary for the defensive team to acquire possession outside of the end zone and retreat into the end zone for it to be a safety? But that can't happen because play would end first. Please describe the sequence of events that would lead to award of a safety to the original offense.

Isn't there also a scenario in which an extra-point is blocked such that the ball never touches the ground, and the Defense catches ball mid-air to run back (far-end of field) across the goalline scoring said 1 point?

All you math and science guys are missing the obvious answer to all of these questions. How can a play result in score X ?
Easy answer: Replacement Refs

As we saw first hand, anything is possible with the regular refs out.

Quote: Doc

I guess I'm still confused. How can the original offense possibly score a safety on a point-after try, if the play ends immediately when the defense gains possession? Would it not be necessary for the defensive team to acquire possession outside of the end zone and retreat into the end zone for it to be a safety? But that can't happen because play would end first. Please describe the sequence of events that would lead to award of a safety to the original offense.

It's hard, but not impossible. If the defense recovers a loose ball, or intercepts a pass, in its own end zone, and then downs the ball, it is a touchback - but if the defense knocks (or carries, but this isn't possible on a try) the ball into its own end zone and then falls on it, it is a safety. If an extra point attempt is blocked, the ball rolls to a stop (or is rolling towards the sideline), and a defensive player knocks it into his own end zone without controlling it first, and then the defense possesses it, it is a safety.

Quote: 98Clubs

Isn't there also a scenario in which an extra-point is blocked such that the ball never touches the ground, and the Defense catches ball mid-air to run back (far-end of field) across the goalline scoring said 1 point?

No, for two reasons. First, in the NFL, once a defensive player takes possession, the ball is dead, and even if defensive players were allowed to "juggle" the ball down the field, the rules say that only the original offense can score; second, even if it was allowed, it would be 2 points, although, in theory, a player could drop kick the ball for 1 point.

I believe all of the relevant rules are disclosed in the following Wikipedia sections:
Defensive two-point conversion.
This is only possible in NCAA, and in high school in a very few states. In NFL and the vast majority of states for high school, the ball is dead immediately if the defensive team gains possession during a try.

Next up: Safeties on PAT/conversion tries.
Here we see that theoretically there could be a score of 6-1 in an NCAA game. Again, not possible in the NFL.