W2-G threshold raised to $2k
Report claims that in Trump's Big Bill the w2-g reporting threshold will be increased to $2k:
'a change tucked away in the “One Big, Beautiful Bill” that passed on July 3 will update the threshold'
Interesting that no one saw/reported this yet lots of people saw the reduced gambling deduction to 90% in the same bill?
Strange - neither the United States Code nor the Code of Federal Regulations seem to have the $1200 W-2G mandate in them; in fact, the Internal Revenue Code (part of the U.S. Code) specifically says, "The tax imposed under paragraph (1) shall not apply to winnings from a slot machine, keno, and bingo."
(Paragraph 1 says that winnings of $5000 or more from a lottery or 'wagering pool' or any pari-mutuel bet that pays 300-1 or higher odds are subject to withholding.)
Also, the IRS's "Instructions for Form W-2G" say that the $1200 withholding for slot machines is "backup withholding," and "should" be done only if the winner does not supply "a correct taxpayer ID number," although the instructions also say to "report gambling winnings on Form W-2G if...the winnings (not reduced by the wager) are $1,200 or more from a bingo game or slot machine." It may not be a law, but an IRS requirement of some sort, in which case, there is no law to change; it would be up to the IRS itself to change the reporting "requirement."
The code in question is Title 26, Section 3402(q).
The amount of backup withholding on W-2G's was raised to $2,000. People who don't fork over their ID with a sub-$2K hand pay won't be subject to backup withholding. But most casinos don't know the laws anyway so it's a bad idea to withhold ID, casino may not pay the JP
The threshold for W-2G's has not changed from $1,200.
Explained in this video at 17 min 8 sec. or 1028 sec. under the 1099 changes, W2G backup withholding section
Quote: 100xOddshttps://www.wfla.com/news/national/jackpot-irs-threshold-for-slot-wins-changing-to-2000-officials-confirm
Report claims that in Trump's Big Bill the w2-g reporting threshold will be increased to $2k:
'a change tucked away in the “One Big, Beautiful Bill” that passed on July 3 will update the threshold'
Interesting that no one saw/reported this yet lots of people saw the reduced gambling deduction to 90% in the same bill?
link to original post
I don't believe it and hope it is not true. I hope it eventually goes the other way and any wins and losses are reported.
If you search it, you won't find "gambling" or "gamble" or "w2" or any other term but that doesn't mean the law doesn't address it. "90" occurs 52 times but none in the context of adjusting losses. "Wagering" appears twice and one of those is a ref. to Section 110014.
Usually, changes to existing laws are made by referencing the existing law and modifying it. For example, Section 110014 deals with "extension of limitation on wagering losses" and refers to Section 165(d) and resets a date. What that date pertains to is not written down so I have to find "Section 165(d)" of which there are about a million. The one I think it refers to is in 26 U.S.C. 165 which (I think) was written in as part of the Dodd-Frank Act. Section 165(d) refers to its own existing laws, and so on and so on.
As best as I can interpret Section 110014, all it does is move the 1/1/26 date to 12/31/25. It doesn't change the $1,200 threshold and it doesn't limit loss declarations to 90% of taxables. But that doesn't mean the Law doesn't address it.
Given this complexity, I can understand why people hear so many different things. "$2,000 isn't mentioned in the Law!" No, but the Law may reference another law and amend it which puts it into play.
So, yeah, it could all be true even though you can't find certain words in this 1100-page document. And, outside of an industry insider or a lawyer, I would suggest screening what we hear.
My $0.02.
SEC. 70114. EXTENSION AND MODIFICATION OF LIMITATION ON WAGERING LOSSES.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Section 165 is amended by striking subsection (d) and inserting the following:
‘‘(d) WAGERING LOSSES.—
‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—For purposes of losses from wagering transactions, the amount allowed as a deduction for any taxable year—
‘‘(A) shall be equal to 90 percent of the amount of such losses during such taxable year, and
‘‘(B) shall be allowed only to the extent of the gains from such transactions during such taxable year.
‘‘(2) SPECIAL RULE.—For purposes of paragraph (1), the term ‘losses from wagering transactions’ includes any deduction otherwise allowable under this chapter incurred in carrying on any wagering transaction.’’.
(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendment made by this section shall apply to taxable years beginning after December 31, 2025.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/41377-gambling-losses-deducted-at-90-instead-of-100-in-new-tax-bill/
*******************************************
As I said earlier in the current thread, there's a discrepancy between what mass media picked up and what Russell Fox picked up concerning the $2,000 number and what it applies to.
I'm not saying it's not in the 7/4 law, I just haven't seen the law to see for myself and I'm not ready to say a 1/3 enrolled bill is "THE law." And I can't find it online, which is weird, because I thought laws were public information.
If links are allowed, if somebody has it, that would be awesome!
Quote: ChumpChangeBut if casinos made an effort to convert the hand pay amounts it would take them several months.
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It takes only a coupe of minutes per machine to change the handpay amount. I have done hundreds of them. Four people could change a typical casino in a day or two.
Does a chip have to be replaced, or a dip switch have to be toggled, or it's in the menu and it's easy to adjust?
I can see you are on limited posts for awhile. I don't have any specific references to the $2,000 in the bill to mention yet. I doubt I'll look it up unless I get an exact pointer.
Quote: ChumpChangeMakes me think the Gamble Smart guys have never changed a hand pay threshold on a slot machine, not there would ever be an opportunity to, so they wouldn't know how it's done.
Does a chip have to be replaced, or a dip switch have to be toggled, or it's in the menu and it's easy to adjust?
link to original post
On most machines just a menu option.
Quote: ChumpChangeMakes me think the Gamble Smart guys have never changed a hand pay threshold on a slot machine, not there would ever be an opportunity to, so they wouldn't know how it's done.
Does a chip have to be replaced, or a dip switch have to be toggled, or it's in the menu and it's easy to adjust?
link to original post
The most recent time that a lockup threshold would likely have been changed would be when converting coindroppers to ticket-out. The $1200 wasn't the problem, so much as it is convenient to not need to refill the coin hopper for large payouts, and attendant pay over $250 might have been set.
On more modern machines, I understand it's a configuration screen option. I would not expect it to take more than 10 minutes to reconfigure a machine, with most machines going more quickly. (Most of the time is rebooting the machine.)
Quote: DRichQuote: ChumpChangeBut if casinos made an effort to convert the hand pay amounts it would take them several months.
link to original post
It takes only a coupe of minutes per machine to change the handpay amount. I have done hundreds of them. Four people could change a typical casino in a day or two.
link to original post
Incidentally, if you're moving the game chip from one cabinet to another, you don't have to set the w2-g limit again.
Wind creek (pa casino chain) has a casino in the Caribbean country of Curacao. (no taxes on winnings)
I hit a $1200+ jackpot and the handpay screen popped up.
The slot attendant had no idea why the screen popped up.
Quote: DieterQuote: ChumpChangeMakes me think the Gamble Smart guys have never changed a hand pay threshold on a slot machine, not there would ever be an opportunity to, so they wouldn't know how it's done.
Does a chip have to be replaced, or a dip switch have to be toggled, or it's in the menu and it's easy to adjust?
link to original post
The most recent time that a lockup threshold would likely have been changed would be when converting coindroppers to ticket-out. The $1200 wasn't the problem, so much as it is convenient to not need to refill the coin hopper for large payouts, and attendant pay over $250 might have been set.
On more modern machines, I understand it's a configuration screen option. I would not expect it to take more than 10 minutes to reconfigure a machine, with most machines going more quickly. (Most of the time is rebooting the machine.)
link to original post
Many small casinos set their limits lower than $1200. I remember seeing a casino that locked up wins over $300.
The easiest thing to do is changing the W-2G limit in the jackpot processing system. It's one number in one system that all jackpots sent from locked up slot machines in that casino go through. Jackpots that are less than the W-2G limit still go through that jackpot processing system but it skips the step of creating a W-2G.
It takes significantly less time to process a jackpot with no W-2G. It's just the jackpot slip (for audit) and getting the cash to the player. No ID, SSN and tax paperwork.
Quote: DRichQuote: DieterQuote: ChumpChangeMakes me think the Gamble Smart guys have never changed a hand pay threshold on a slot machine, not there would ever be an opportunity to, so they wouldn't know how it's done.
Does a chip have to be replaced, or a dip switch have to be toggled, or it's in the menu and it's easy to adjust?
link to original post
The most recent time that a lockup threshold would likely have been changed would be when converting coindroppers to ticket-out. The $1200 wasn't the problem, so much as it is convenient to not need to refill the coin hopper for large payouts, and attendant pay over $250 might have been set.
On more modern machines, I understand it's a configuration screen option. I would not expect it to take more than 10 minutes to reconfigure a machine, with most machines going more quickly. (Most of the time is rebooting the machine.)
link to original post
Many small casinos set their limits lower than $1200. I remember seeing a casino that locked up wins over $300.
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Ok, I only remember seeing one converted coindropper that hadn't been reconfigured to $1200.
Sure, the house CAN set the lockup threshold to whatever... but why? With modern playable vouchers, I would think the goal is to keep time-on-device growing so they can lose it back. Stopping the action for a small potatoes handpay and a hope for a toke seems counterproductive.
Quote: Dieter
Ok, I only remember seeing one converted coindropper that hadn't been reconfigured to $1200.
Sure, the house CAN set the lockup threshold to whatever... but why? With modern playable vouchers, I would think the goal is to keep time-on-device growing so they can lose it back. Stopping the action for a small potatoes handpay and a hope for a toke seems counterproductive.
link to original post
The small casinos do it to watch for cheating and malfunctioning machines. Many $1000 hits can cause harm to a tiny casino.
Quote: DRichQuote: ChumpChangeMakes me think the Gamble Smart guys have never changed a hand pay threshold on a slot machine, not there would ever be an opportunity to, so they wouldn't know how it's done.
Does a chip have to be replaced, or a dip switch have to be toggled, or it's in the menu and it's easy to adjust?
link to original post
On most machines just a menu option.
link to original post
That's surprising. Being the W2-G is legally required, I would have expected that to be somewhat hard-coded to keep a small operator from changing it on their own to circumvent the requirement.
There used to be a bank of 25 cent progressive VP that I would play (yes, that bank! IYKYK) where a Royal that was (rarely!) under the threshold would call for a handpay anyway. You would get a handpay but no W2-G, just a receipt you had to sign to account for the cash.
Quote: DieterOk, I only remember seeing one converted coindropper that hadn't been reconfigured to $1200.
Sure, the house CAN set the lockup threshold to whatever... but why? With modern playable vouchers, I would think the goal is to keep time-on-device growing so they can lose it back. Stopping the action for a small potatoes handpay and a hope for a toke seems counterproductive.
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A small casino needs to give the slot attendants something to do. Slot attendants push in empty chairs, throw away trash, and give people directions to the restrooms for an hourly wage less than housekeeping or security.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeyThat's surprising. Being the W2-G is legally required, I would have expected that to be somewhat hard-coded to keep a small operator from changing it on their own to circumvent the requirement.
Why would they do that? The casino doesn't pay taxes on players' gambling wins.
Quote:There used to be a bank of 25 cent progressive VP that I would play (yes, that bank! IYKYK) where a Royal that was (rarely!) under the threshold would call for a handpay anyway. You would get a handpay but no W2-G, just a receipt you had to sign to account for the cash.
link to original post
The last time I was at El Dorado in Reno, a five quarters royal flush on a fixed paytable -- exactly $1,000 -- was a handpay.
There was also a casino in Sparks with $1,199 for five quarters royal flush that was a handpay.
Those types of wins are very rare. Slot players (in general, not everyone) like getting handpays, and the time lost is very little when it's 1 in 40,000 hands.
Quote: KevinAAQuote: DieterOk, I only remember seeing one converted coindropper that hadn't been reconfigured to $1200.
Sure, the house CAN set the lockup threshold to whatever... but why? With modern playable vouchers, I would think the goal is to keep time-on-device growing so they can lose it back. Stopping the action for a small potatoes handpay and a hope for a toke seems counterproductive.
link to original post
A small casino needs to give the slot attendants something to do. Slot attendants push in empty chairs, throw away trash, and give people directions to the restrooms for an hourly wage less than housekeeping or security.Quote: AutomaticMonkeyThat's surprising. Being the W2-G is legally required, I would have expected that to be somewhat hard-coded to keep a small operator from changing it on their own to circumvent the requirement.
Why would they do that? The casino doesn't pay taxes on players' gambling wins.Quote:There used to be a bank of 25 cent progressive VP that I would play (yes, that bank! IYKYK) where a Royal that was (rarely!) under the threshold would call for a handpay anyway. You would get a handpay but no W2-G, just a receipt you had to sign to account for the cash.
link to original post
The last time I was at El Dorado in Reno, a five quarters royal flush on a fixed paytable -- exactly $1,000 -- was a handpay.
There was also a casino in Sparks with $1,199 for five quarters royal flush that was a handpay.
Those types of wins are very rare. Slot players (in general, not everyone) like getting handpays, and the time lost is very little when it's 1 in 40,000 hands.
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I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
"Too much work" is why I suspect a guy who has a bar and a dozen VP machines would want to set the hand pay threshold to $4001. He doesn't want to screw around with that paperwork. It also attracts players, particularly those who do not have real SS numbers and take a risk whenever they use their fake ones.
The bank I'm thinking of was one where the progressive was misprogrammed and incremented 10x faster than it was supposed to. You would spend yourself if you saw how high some of those jackpots got! That bank was like a Mos Eisley for wiseguys, met a few interesting people there.
Quote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
Quote: DRichQuote: Dieter
Ok, I only remember seeing one converted coindropper that hadn't been reconfigured to $1200.
Sure, the house CAN set the lockup threshold to whatever... but why? With modern playable vouchers, I would think the goal is to keep time-on-device growing so they can lose it back. Stopping the action for a small potatoes handpay and a hope for a toke seems counterproductive.
link to original post
The small casinos do it to watch for cheating and malfunctioning machines. Many $1000 hits can cause harm to a tiny casino.
link to original post
That and it gives the smaller casino an opportunity to tout more jackpots won, even if they’re under $1200…
Quote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
link to original post
Pro or not, that's irrelevant, the only reason to stiff the staff is poor service or because you're a jerk.
Quote: KevinAAQuote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
link to original post
Pro or not, that's irrelevant, the only reason to stiff the staff is poor service or because you're a jerk.
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The casino should pay my winnings to me without creating a situation where I need to pay
their staff to get it or look like a jerk.
Quote: ChumpChangeTips in Vegas are already down by half. How much further would they go down with hand pays at $5K instead of $1.2K? I think some people would be taking casino checks instead of cash at that level.
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I still toke if it's a check. But I don't think it will change the tips much because fewer slot attendants will be needed.
On the other hand because fewer slot attendants there will probably be more time needed for a hand pay. There might be just 1 or 2 in the place then, and if they're working on paper jams and the like, or bad variance for the casino and a lot of people hitting jackpots it can take a lot longer.
Quote: KevinAAQuote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
link to original post
Pro or not, that's irrelevant, the only reason to stiff the staff is poor service or because you're a jerk.
link to original post
yeah no.
i don't tip for minimum hand pays. (anything under $1500)
Where did this silly idea of tipping slot attendants come from?
I tip servers because they are paid like $3/hr.
In my state, slot attendants are paid more than fed minimum wage.
Quote: KevinAAQuote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
link to original post
Pro or not, that's irrelevant, the only reason to stiff the staff is poor service or because you're a jerk.
link to original post
What then is the proper tip percentage? For a pro that may hit multiple jackpots per day you don't want to give away too much of your advantage. I regularly played video poker with a about a 1% advantage. How much is a proper tip considering I was hitting a hand pay every 25 to 30 minutes? I did not tip on every handpay.
Quote: DRich
What then is the proper tip percentage? For a pro that may hit multiple jackpots per day you don't want to give away too much of your advantage. I regularly played video poker with a about a 1% advantage. How much is a proper tip considering I was hitting a hand pay every 25 to 30 minutes? I did not tip on every handpay.
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At the places where the bartenders redeem all the tickets, they always seem giddy when they get 1%, so it's probably too generous.
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: KevinAAQuote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
link to original post
Pro or not, that's irrelevant, the only reason to stiff the staff is poor service or because you're a jerk.
link to original post
yeah no.
i don't tip for minimum hand pays. (anything under $1500)
Where did this silly idea of tipping slot attendants come from?
I tip servers because they are paid like $3/hr.
In my state, slot attendants are paid more than fed minimum wage.
link to original post
I believe cocktail servers in Nevada make well over $10 an hour plus tips.
Quote: billryanQuote: 100xOddsQuote: KevinAAQuote: DRichQuote: AutomaticMonkey
I think it's not such a bad idea to give the slot attendants a toke opportunity. Doesn't bother me at all.
For pro's, there is definitely times to tip and not tip depending on the circumstances.
link to original post
Pro or not, that's irrelevant, the only reason to stiff the staff is poor service or because you're a jerk.
link to original post
yeah no.
i don't tip for minimum hand pays. (anything under $1500)
Where did this silly idea of tipping slot attendants come from?
I tip servers because they are paid like $3/hr.
In my state, slot attendants are paid more than fed minimum wage.
link to original post
I believe cocktail servers in Nevada make well over $10 an hour plus tips.
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I would guess closer to $20 an hour on average from my time living there. At the big properties the drink servers are unhappy if they make less than $300 a shift.
Quote: DieterQuote: DRich
What then is the proper tip percentage? For a pro that may hit multiple jackpots per day you don't want to give away too much of your advantage. I regularly played video poker with a about a 1% advantage. How much is a proper tip considering I was hitting a hand pay every 25 to 30 minutes? I did not tip on every handpay.
link to original postapproximately what the casino tips players with points (often around 0.1%)
At the places where the bartenders redeem all the tickets, they always seem giddy when they get 1%, so it's probably too generous.
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Most of my big play was at bars and taverns so often I would just wait until I was done and tip based on my outcome and not my jackpots. My biggest tip was $2500 after a very good session and the bartender was a friend.
