Why are most slot AP’s sleezeballs?
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I do extremely well without having to resort to the above tactics. What in your opinion makes most AP’s so prone to acting like the dregs of society?
Couldn't agree more tho. My local has FLOOOOOOODED with these asshole slot players and one by one they go broke and/or get banned for being stupid. I just try to disassociate from them as much as humanly possible as to not be lumped in with them (not that I'm out there slot hustling daily... I'm not). Let them burn themselves out with their own terrible ideas, numbers, and bankroll (or lack there of). My only fear is some of them are so stupid they literally camp it from noon-8pm every single day, throwing it in the casinos face... Thus, usually this goes on for a little until the wrong person higher up catches wind and ban hammers everyone. I just hope it doesn't ruin the casino.
Quote: SlotenthusiastI’ve been doing slot AP for 5 years and have often wondered why the majority of my competition acts like total sleezebags. They will lie to one another, steal plays and commit other immoral acts to make a buck.
This sounds like many commission based sales jobs. There were definitely rumors back in the day about which workplaces were "full of sharks", and which were cooperative and decent.
Quote:I do extremely well without having to resort to the above tactics. What in your opinion makes most AP’s so prone to acting like the dregs of society?
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It sounds like the sharks found a new grind.
I could speculate about how they're not making enough money and why they're acting in desperation, but it's all going to come down to "the product of their skills and the opportunities before them is insufficient to live on" and an aversion to doing straight work.
Quote: SlotenthusiastI’ve been doing slot AP for 5 years and have often wondered why the majority of my competition acts like total sleezebags. They will lie to one another, steal plays and commit other immoral acts to make a buck.
I do extremely well without having to resort to the above tactics. What in your opinion makes most AP’s so prone to acting like the dregs of society?
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Slot APs have that reputation. The traditional APs, counters-sequencers-shuffle trackers are among the nicest people I've ever met.
One of the things I've experienced- the people who follow the "road less traveled", the sidebets, BJ derivatives, all the advanced stuff- when you meet someone who is doing what you are doing at the table, it's instant smiles and trust. We're not competitors, we're people who are in a position to help one another. We also tend to be a little bit "on the spectrum," as the saying goes, so we understand each other too.
Quote: RomesThey're morons that get numbers from other people and don't know them. They're also not real pro's (imo) and don't understand the math and things like bankroll and variance. This leads to them taking swings they didn't think they'd take, and being dicks to everyone else around them because they're angry and they don't know what they're angry at/about.
Couldn't agree more tho. My local has FLOOOOOOODED with these asshole slot players and one by one they go broke and/or get banned for being stupid. I just try to disassociate from them as much as humanly possible as to not be lumped in with them (not that I'm out there slot hustling daily... I'm not). Let them burn themselves out with their own terrible ideas, numbers, and bankroll (or lack there of). My only fear is some of them are so stupid they literally camp it from noon-8pm every single day, throwing it in the casinos face... Thus, usually this goes on for a little until the wrong person higher up catches wind and ban hammers everyone. I just hope it doesn't ruin the casino.
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This is a great response, thank you.
You're right about burning places out. Thankfully most of them hang out in one casino where I now avoid. They’ve removed most of the AP games there because of these people.
Quote: SlotenthusiastI’ve been doing slot AP for 5 years and have often wondered why the majority of my competition acts like total sleezebags. They will lie to one another, steal plays and commit other immoral acts to make a buck.
I do extremely well without having to resort to the above tactics. What in your opinion makes most AP’s so prone to acting like the dregs of society?
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Some fields attract a type of man who wants something for little work. Slots AP is one such profession; First Amendment auditing is another. Unwilling and unable to find a real job, usually due to poor education and people skills, they are attracted by the stench of easy money.
There are always exceptions to every rule, and I've met a couple decent slot APs, but most of them make me very glad there is a 500-mile distance between us.
Quote: SlotenthusiastI’ve been doing slot AP for 5 years and have often wondered why the majority of my competition acts like total sleezebags. They will lie to one another, steal plays and commit other immoral acts to make a buck.
What in your opinion makes most slot AP’s so prone to acting like the dregs of society?
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Pushing dem buttons nonstop makes 'em stir crazy.
Quote: DieterQuote: SlotenthusiastI’ve been doing slot AP for 5 years and have often wondered why the majority of my competition acts like total sleezebags. They will lie to one another, steal plays and commit other immoral acts to make a buck.
This sounds like many commission based sales jobs. There were definitely rumors back in the day about which workplaces were "full of sharks", and which were cooperative and decent.
The problem isn't so much the Sales associates, but the politics involved with the Management of those sales people!
When they're given the best leads, the higher commission rates, more incentives and allowed to basically poach any other territory or lead pool that they please, of course they're going to have an arrogant attitude and sense of entitlement.
Which in turn, leaves the rest of the sales reps feeling like they have to be EXTRA protective over their given leads and prospects.
I've worked at places like that before and quickly got the memo, so I left. I now work at an office where the understanding is every one helps one another get better and if you help someone who is having a "Slow" month make their numbers, then they will pay you back in kind. That creates a more pleasant sales environment and removes the "ME ME ME" element for the most part.
Quote: AutomaticMonkey
Slot APs have that reputation. The traditional APs, counters-sequencers-shuffle trackers are among the nicest people I've ever met.
One of the things I've experienced- the people who follow the "road less traveled", the sidebets, BJ derivatives, all the advanced stuff- when you meet someone who is doing what you are doing at the table, it's instant smiles and trust. We're not competitors, we're people who are in a position to help one another. We also tend to be a little bit "on the spectrum," as the saying goes, so we understand each other too.
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I think an obvious reason why slot APs tend to get more competitive is that we're essentially all fighting over the same catch. If a machine has $100 of EV, it either goes to you or me. We can't both haul it in. And slot EV is not something you can generate on your own. You need to wait for someone else to do it, whereas a BJ counter can go to a blackjack table and start counting. While there is more nuance to non-slot AP play, this core distinction remains relevant.
Of course, that is not to say that AP players cannot be civil with one another. I find it varies a great deal from place to place. In some places people are very civilized, while in others it's very cutthroat.
Quote: Mukke
I think an obvious reason why slot APs tend to get more competitive is that we're essentially all fighting over the same catch. If a machine has $100 of EV, it either goes to you or me. We can't both haul it in. And slot EV is not something you can generate on your own. You need to wait for someone else to do it, whereas a BJ counter can go to a blackjack table and start counting. While there is more nuance to non-slot AP play, this core distinction remains relevant.
Of course, that is not to say that AP players cannot be civil with one another. I find it varies a great deal from place to place. In some places people are very civilized, while in others it's very cutthroat.
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Yes, I guess that is the fundamental difference. Other kinds of APs create their own advantage. Well sort of, the advantage at a BJ table happens whether I'm there or not. We're just detecting it. And the thing that tends to get counters irritated with one another is Wonging in and out on one another, which is also a form of poaching a limited resource. Holecarders who need to be in a particular seat at a particular table can run into the same problem.
But there's that number you used, $100 of EV is not enough for me to engage in any kind of antisocial behavior, where I risk getting banned or arrested or even making an enemy out of someone else in the business. Like the street rule where you do not attack people who live in your neighborhood. Because you're going to see him again and you might be unlucky that day.
Quote: 7NeverWinsQuote: DieterQuote: SlotenthusiastI’ve been doing slot AP for 5 years and have often wondered why the majority of my competition acts like total sleezebags. They will lie to one another, steal plays and commit other immoral acts to make a buck.
This sounds like many commission based sales jobs. There were definitely rumors back in the day about which workplaces were "full of sharks", and which were cooperative and decent.
The problem isn't so much the Sales associates, but the politics involved with the Management of those sales people!
When they're given the best leads, the higher commission rates, more incentives and allowed to basically poach any other territory or lead pool that they please, of course they're going to have an arrogant attitude and sense of entitlement.
Which in turn, leaves the rest of the sales reps feeling like they have to be EXTRA protective over their given leads and prospects.
I've worked at places like that before and quickly got the memo, so I left. I now work at an office where the understanding is every one helps one another get better and if you help someone who is having a "Slow" month make their numbers, then they will pay you back in kind. That creates a more pleasant sales environment and removes the "ME ME ME" element for the most part.
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A very interesting parallel.
Casino managers certainly aren't divvying up the tasty machines and assigning them to particular players, much like the manager of a too-crowded sales floor just tells all the sales crew to go out and get what they can.
Quote: AutomaticMonkeySlot APs have that reputation. The traditional APs, counters-sequencers-shuffle trackers are among the nicest people I've ever met.
There is more than one type of slot ap. and not all fall under that definition.
You do get them in other areas but less so. Hole-carders are especially obnoxious, though they are so short, they aren't very threatening, it is kind of comical.
Usually this type of AP is defined as someone who is strongly susceptible to social proof-they think a play is profitable because others doing it and think other people are "stealing" their play. It is a lot easier to just come up with your own plays.
But getting in on that required some flexibility and the ability to scrape together a few thousand up front, so I suppose it kept the absolute bottom out of the place, for a better overall environment.
Quote: Venthus. Not to mention that, talking to some of them, their team was aiming for about 100$/day for each of them, which is ridiculously modest if you were playing the locale properly.
How do you live on that?
Quote: Archvaldor1Quote: Venthus. Not to mention that, talking to some of them, their team was aiming for about 100$/day for each of them, which is ridiculously modest if you were playing the locale properly.
How do you live on that?
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Suppose you're a pensioner, living on $3-4K monthly fixed income and low expenses. An extra $2000 a month, generally untaxed, would be huge and you are now solidly middle class in most places. Add to that all your comps, a free drink or two, plus the fact that you are walking >5 miles a day which will add a few years to your life and your enjoyment of it. Sounds like a dream job for such a person, and a little bit of dementia setting in won't interfere much.
I expect the day will come for me when the plaques catch up to the gyri, and I can no longer do the multiparameter mentalist magic. It would be great to have a gig like this. But a younger guy should be thinking bigger.
Quote: billryanSome fields attract a type of man who wants something for little work. Slots AP is one such profession; First Amendment auditing is another.
easy money.
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First Amendment auditing?
little work?
More info pls :)
Quote: VenthusMost of the slot APs I've run into of late have been perfectly civil and even willing to share info on possible plays-- "There's a Rocket Rumble at 96 if you want to go for it." "Nah, I'm holding out for 98,
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RR at 96?
Your place must have low rtp.
95 is the # people grab it but it takes 8+ hrs.
not doing that for .75 cent play.
Old lady with 1 foot in the grave.. you're welcome to it
Quote: Archvaldor1Quote: Venthus. Not to mention that, talking to some of them, their team was aiming for about 100$/day for each of them, which is ridiculously modest if you were playing the locale properly.
How do you live on that?
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$100 x 365 = $36.5k tax free unless you hit w2g's.
since you have no income, you're on medicaid/food stamps/section 8 housing.
of course the neighborhood you're living in is crime ridden and walking home with even $100 might be problematic especially if the wrong crowd gets wind you're at the casino often
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: Archvaldor1Quote: Venthus. Not to mention that, talking to some of them, their team was aiming for about 100$/day for each of them, which is ridiculously modest if you were playing the locale properly.
How do you live on that?
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$100 x 365 = $36.5k tax free unless you hit w2g's.
since you have no income, you're on medicaid/food stamps/section 8 housing.
of course the neighborhood you're living in is crime ridden and walking home with even $100 might be problematic especially if the wrong crowd gets wind you're at the casino often
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That's assuming Most AP Slot Vultures are homeless and collecting those benefits. Don't know about Vegas, but on the East Coast Section-8 housing is still around $800 per month in many places.
Plus the Vultures I've seen were fairly well dressed compared to a homeless person and do Eat & Drink take out food like regular casino goers. Sure, they COULD be living off food comps, but at some point they have to eat, drink and shop outside the casino.
And if they have access to a car or take a bus or Uber down to the casino, that's another HUGE cost that eats into that $100 a day.
So one could easily say that 36.5k is significantly reduced and while one could live on that, it would not be very comfortable or desirable to do so!
Quote: 100xOddsQuote: VenthusMost of the slot APs I've run into of late have been perfectly civil and even willing to share info on possible plays-- "There's a Rocket Rumble at 96 if you want to go for it." "Nah, I'm holding out for 98,
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RR at 96?
Your place must have low rtp.
95 is the # people grab it but it takes 8+ hrs.
not doing that for .75 cent play.
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Wouldn't be surprised if the RTP was set to the minimum; I hit it at 98 once, and it took about 4 hours... for a net loss of about 200$@75c.
Quote: 7NeverWinsQuote: 100xOddsQuote: Archvaldor1Quote: Venthus. Not to mention that, talking to some of them, their team was aiming for about 100$/day for each of them, which is ridiculously modest if you were playing the locale properly.
How do you live on that?
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$100 x 365 = $36.5k tax free unless you hit w2g's.
since you have no income, you're on medicaid/food stamps/section 8 housing.
of course the neighborhood you're living in is crime ridden and walking home with even $100 might be problematic especially if the wrong crowd gets wind you're at the casino often
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That's assuming Most AP Slot Vultures are homeless and collecting those benefits. Don't know about Vegas, but on the East Coast Section-8 housing is still around $800 per month in many places.
Plus the Vultures I've seen were fairly well dressed compared to a homeless person and do Eat & Drink take out food like regular casino goers. Sure, they COULD be living off food comps, but at some point they have to eat, drink and shop outside the casino.
And if they have access to a car or take a bus or Uber down to the casino, that's another HUGE cost that eats into that $100 a day.
So one could easily say that 36.5k is significantly reduced and while one could live on that, it would not be very comfortable or desirable to do so!
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If they collect social security and can pick up an extra $300 a week for three days of sitting in a casino, that is not a bad part-time gig. I don't know why people get into unrealistic cases where someone is going to work 365 days a year. It's unrealistic to think someone is going to work 365 days a year. It's quite possible to put together a small team of people willing to work 185 days a year.
Quote: billryan
If they collect social security and can pick up an extra $300 a week for three days of sitting in a casino, that is not a bad part-time gig. I don't know why people get into unrealistic cases where someone is going to work 365 days a year. It's unrealistic to think someone is going to work 365 days a year. It's quite possible to put together a small team of people willing to work 185 days a year.
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I have known a lot of people that work around 360 days a year and most of them would be considered very successful.
My goal is to work zero days a year.
Quote: DRichQuote: billryan
If they collect social security and can pick up an extra $300 a week for three days of sitting in a casino, that is not a bad part-time gig. I don't know why people get into unrealistic cases where someone is going to work 365 days a year. It's unrealistic to think someone is going to work 365 days a year. It's quite possible to put together a small team of people willing to work 185 days a year.
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I have known a lot of people that work around 360 days a year and most of them would be considered very successful.
My goal is to work zero days a year.
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For $100 a day? I'll hire a dozen of them today.
