MGM and AP
www.instagram.com/reel/DAE0TNjSKND/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Http://www.instagram.com/reel/DAE0TNjSKND/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Vegaspaulyc is a sleezeball who works with that tweaker Jay Fructose.
TLDR it’s Clickbait
Quote: SlotenthusiastI believe this is fabricated. MGM wouldn’t send an email out telling people they weren’t getting offers anymore because they’re advantage players. They’d just cut them off.
Vegaspaulyc is a sleezeball who works with that tweaker Jay Fructose.
TLDR it’s Clickbait
link to original post
The wording of the notification is very detailed and seems plausible to me.
I received an e-mail from an MGM online casino last year. The told me that my VIP status had been reviewed and that I no longer qualified as a VIP. I had actually been playing very heavily in the weeks prior to this and hit some amazing bonus rounds while playing slots. I certainly was not bounced for lack of play. I still get the low-roller promotional offers, but I stopped getting huge deposit match offers. This had been very lucrative. Interestingly, I still get occasional phone calls and e-mails from a random MGM slot host with smaller offers (less than $200 in EV).
I cannot think of another instance of a casino informing me that they were taking action against me. They normally just cut me off without a word.
Buffalo Ascension - Golden Link, Buffalo Link
Hexbreaker 3
Ocean Magic
Golden Jungle
Magic Of The Nile
Not machines I've played or even thought about playing, but that's saying nothing.
Quote: ChumpChangeLemme see if I can copy down the names of the slot machines he's referring to as AP-able.
Buffalo Ascension - Golden Link, Buffalo Link
Hexbreaker 3
Ocean Magic
Golden Jungle
Magic Of The Nile
Not machines I've played or even thought about playing, but that's saying nothing.
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They are ap'able especially Golden Jungle.
The others not to my liking but Golden Jungle was disturbing to have on that list
I have played all of these but Golden Jungle in B&M casinos. He leaves out a lot of progressives and persistent wild games on his list.Quote: ChumpChangeLemme see if I can copy down the names of the slot machines he's referring to as AP-able.
Buffalo Ascension - Golden Link, Buffalo Link
Hexbreaker 3
Ocean Magic
Golden Jungle
Magic Of The Nile
Not machines I've played or even thought about playing, but that's saying nothing.
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When I play online, I usually get my own dedicated game with my own persistent state. For example, Magic Of The Nile starts up with the same -EV configuration on all sites. None of the obelisks have any segments colored. This is a horribly -EV state. Other players on the site do not affect the configuration I see. There is no way to vulture this game online.
There is another post which gives more info about the alleged MGM action:
https://www.instagram.com/casinocompwallet/reel/DAFlLqtxusQ/
Quote: Mental
Quote: SlotenthusiastI believe this is fabricated. MGM wouldn’t send an email out telling people they weren’t getting offers anymore because they’re advantage players. They’d just cut them off.
Vegaspaulyc is a sleezeball who works with that tweaker Jay Fructose.
TLDR it’s Clickbait
link to original post
The wording of the notification is very detailed and seems plausible to me.
I received an e-mail from an MGM online casino last year. The told me that my VIP status had been reviewed and that I no longer qualified as a VIP. I had actually been playing very heavily in the weeks prior to this and hit some amazing bonus rounds while playing slots. I certainly was not bounced for lack of play. I still get the low-roller promotional offers, but I stopped getting huge deposit match offers. This had been very lucrative. Interestingly, I still get occasional phone calls and e-mails from a random MGM slot host with smaller offers (less than $200 in EV).
I cannot think of another instance of a casino informing me that they were taking action against me. They normally just cut me off without a word.
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All easily fabricated for clicks. Until I see an actual email with a header from MGM I’m not buying it.
Also the wording saying “local freeplay” seems off
I’ve done slot AP in Vegas putting thru millions of dollars in coin in and nothing has happened to my offers.
Quote: TigerWuI just tried googling this and literally no one else is talking about it except this one guy.
link to original post
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/rumor-mgm-cracking-down-on-slots-ap.210730/
Quote: darkozQuote: TigerWuI just tried googling this and literally no one else is talking about it except this one guy.
link to original post
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/rumor-mgm-cracking-down-on-slots-ap.210730/
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LOL I saw that thread, but it still sources back to that one guy.
In any case, finding something where no one knows exactly what you are doing or why you are winning better ensures longevity which is part of why I keep on truckin' at table games.
Quote: MDawgPushing machine buttons endlessly is a fate worse than death anyway so I'd think MGM would be doing these people a favor relieving them of that activity.
In any case, finding something where no one knows exactly what you are doing or why you are winning better ensures longevity which is part of why I keep on truckin' at table games.
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They weren't pushing buttons endlessly. In fact their AP move (vulturing) is mostly not pushing buttons until specific moments.
That's just the thing, I don't think you and most people understand. There's so many different aspects of slot AP, It's way more complicated and nuanced than table.games, there's way more angels, and It's way more intriguing than playing tables.Quote: MDawgPushing slot buttons endlessly is a fate worse than death anyway so I'd think MGM would be doing these people a favor relieving them of that activity.
In any case, finding something where no one knows exactly what you are doing or why you are winning better ensures longevity which is why I keep on truckin' at table games.
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Most slot player's are not pushing buttons endlessly, they may spend 30 to 200 minutes actually pushing buttons on a play (unless there's a special situation worth a F@$kTon where many hours are super advantageous. The rest of the time they are reaping the benefits, or they are on to the next advantage.
FYI, Slot player's get way better comps and perks than table game's player's when you compare the same total action given.
Oftentimes, slot AP''s are finding things no one else knows about. At least AP slot players can provide proof backed up by math that they have an advantage.
FYI, many advantage players who you think are just slot players actually play much more than just slots, they play anything and everything gambling related which gives them a proven mathematical advantage, and that includes table games.
I don't think there's any standard casino game that I haven't played with an advantage including all the major table games. Slots, keno, roulette, baccarat, BJ, keno, slots, E games, skill games, sports, horses, big 6, craps Pai gow, carnival games, and much much more.
Quote: AxelWolf
I don't think there's any standard casino game that I haven't played with an advantage including all the major table games. Slots, keno, roulette, baccarat, BJ, keno, slots, E games, skill games, sports, horses, big 6, craps pigaw, carnival games and much much more.
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Does this claim fall into the same category as 18 yos and an 80% win rate on even money bets?
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AxelWolf
I don't think there's any standard casino game that I haven't played with an advantage including all the major table games. Slots, keno, roulette, baccarat, BJ, keno, slots, E games, skill games, sports, horses, big 6, craps pigaw, carnival games and much much more.
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Does this claim fall into the same category as 18 yos and an 80% win rate on even money bets?
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There is nothing remarkable about these claims. Axel doesn't claim he wins every time. He is just saying that he has a quantifiable advantage at certain times playing certain games under the right circumstances. With the right promotion, almost every casino game can be played with a significant advantage.
I have literally played several hundred different slot games with an advantage. That is because many online casino promos are valid only on a specific slot game that the casino is promoting on a given day.
I am often just hitting autoplay on a slot game and then doing something that I find much more interesting than, say, playing ordinary BJ or baccarat. I find those games as much fun as watching paint dry.
A person who enjoys table games tends to be the type whose brain chemistry feeds into the ups and downs of the table game - the rising tension as the cards are dealt and the tension released when the outcome of the hand is revealed. Someone who finds this sort of thing boring would tend to be a "zone out" personality.
Casino players tend to be of one or other type of personality.
Then inevitably two people plunk down cash and I wait while chips are dispensed and the pitboss checks ratings card and types into computer and I am looking at my watch (cellphone cause I am not paying ten grand for a watch that tells time like my cell phone does)
And then I hear shift change and wait for dealers to swap...
And then I hear the person seated next to me announcing he is out and please color up...
And then I hear pitboss announce the minimum is going up for the table and they need to do a quick chip count.
And by this time I am ready to hang myself out of boredom.
Quote: darkozEvery time I sit at a table game my adrenaline starts pumping.
Then inevitably two people plunk down cash and I wait while chips are dispensed and the pitboss checks ratings card and types into computer and I am looking at my watch (cellphone cause I am not paying ten grand for a watch that tells time like my cell phone does)
And then I hear shift change and wait for dealers to swap...
And then I hear the person seated next to me announcing he is out and please color up...
And then I hear pitboss announce the minimum is going up for the table and they need to do a quick chip count.
And by this time I am ready to hang myself out of boredom.
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I love all those moments because it slows the game down. Slow game means I'm losing less money.
Quote: sdg84Only heard one person talk about this but they were suspecting some of the APs that they are targeting are not the ones that we commonly think about (the ones that vulture and try to get quick wins). The ones they were targeting were the High Coin-in Massive bank roll players who are trying to live off of free play. There are ppl who put so much coin-in across multiple casinos that their monthly offers are enough for them to take any AP plays for the coin-in to maintain FP. Their FP is like crazy high from what i heard and were starting to demand certain comps/privileges. Sounds like they were done dealing with them
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Until someone posts actual proof and we hear from more than a single person we can safely say this story is completely fabricated.
Quote: SlotenthusiastQuote: sdg84Only heard one person talk about this but they were suspecting some of the APs that they are targeting are not the ones that we commonly think about (the ones that vulture and try to get quick wins). The ones they were targeting were the High Coin-in Massive bank roll players who are trying to live off of free play. There are ppl who put so much coin-in across multiple casinos that their monthly offers are enough for them to take any AP plays for the coin-in to maintain FP. Their FP is like crazy high from what i heard and were starting to demand certain comps/privileges. Sounds like they were done dealing with them
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Until someone posts actual proof and we hear from more than a single person we can safely say this story is completely fabricated.
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I don't know any AP that would admit the specific locale of the place he was hitting nor how.
Any good AP is already planning how to circumvent the Anti-AP software and get started again.
Then again if the 2nd video is true and it was the slot vultures that got no-mailed then you probably won't hear anything. The vultures don't strike me as very on-line talkative people
Quote: SlotenthusiastQuote: sdg84Only heard one person talk about this but they were suspecting some of the APs that they are targeting are not the ones that we commonly think about (the ones that vulture and try to get quick wins). The ones they were targeting were the High Coin-in Massive bank roll players who are trying to live off of free play. There are ppl who put so much coin-in across multiple casinos that their monthly offers are enough for them to take any AP plays for the coin-in to maintain FP. Their FP is like crazy high from what i heard and were starting to demand certain comps/privileges. Sounds like they were done dealing with them
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Until someone posts actual proof and we hear from more than a single person we can safely say this story is completely fabricated.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say the story is completely fabricated, but I also wouldn't put much stock in it.
Quote: apdiwaI registered just to say I know several people impacted by this.
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Okay. Do these people operate as high-volume players at high stakes like sdg84 mentions? Or are they just picking off small vulture plays on penny persistent state machines?
Frankly, the former scenario makes more sense to me. If people can get a certain percentage of their slot play back as free-slot-play and another chunk as tickets and rooms that they can monetize, then it makes sense that they could play $100K Ainsworth MH slots or similar progressive even at a 2% house edge. The high limit games have a much higher RTP than the penny games. They are in states with a low house edge a larger fraction of the time.
These high-volume players are a bigger threat to the casino's bottom line.
The small stakes vultures can still do their thing even without free slot play.
Sound like every addicted degenerate gambler we have ever known.Quote: MDawg
A person who enjoys table games tends to be the type whose brain chemistry feeds into the ups and downs of the table game - the rising tension as the cards are dealt and the tension released when the outcome of the hand is revealed. ]
Quote: billryanQuote: SlotenthusiastQuote: sdg84Only heard one person talk about this but they were suspecting some of the APs that they are targeting are not the ones that we commonly think about (the ones that vulture and try to get quick wins). The ones they were targeting were the High Coin-in Massive bank roll players who are trying to live off of free play. There are ppl who put so much coin-in across multiple casinos that their monthly offers are enough for them to take any AP plays for the coin-in to maintain FP. Their FP is like crazy high from what i heard and were starting to demand certain comps/privileges. Sounds like they were done dealing with them
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Until someone posts actual proof and we hear from more than a single person we can safely say this story is completely fabricated.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say the story is completely fabricated, but I also wouldn't put much stock in it.
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What if it is a dividend stock?
So we aren't talking regular vultures. These are high limit vultures seeking opportunities worth traveling for.
My guess is this is how it works:
A spotter sees a MH for high amounts. He waits until the person on it leaves and then this team grabs the machine.
8 people will now drive the MH up until it's guaranteed to hit.
As each person takes his turn, he plays only until he has hit the max Theo for the day (he the point he will generate no further comps) and then he quits and hands it off to the next player.
Eventually there will be the big payout on the MH but meanwhile they maxed comps for the entire team so they can do it again.
East coast I have seen as high as $50,000 MH so it could be lucrative. And I could see how MGM might get frightened of these guys. The comps generated would offset the bad days seeking these MH.
This all conjecture on my part based on what I read so don't go hollering the Riot act at me :)
Quote: darkozThe original post mentioned that one player had flown in a team of 8 people who were all denied their comps, rooms etc.
So we aren't talking regular vultures. These are high limit vultures seeking opportunities worth traveling for.
My guess is this is how it works:
A spotter sees a MH for high amounts. He waits until the person on it leaves and then this team grabs the machine.
8 people will now drive the MH up until it's guaranteed to hit.
As each person takes his turn, he plays only until he has hit the max Theo for the day (he the point he will generate no further comps) and then he quits and hands it off to the next player.
Eventually there will be the big payout on the MH but meanwhile they maxed comps for the entire team so they can do it again.
East coast I have seen as high as $50,000 MH so it could be lucrative. And I could see how MGM might get frightened of these guys. The comps generated would offset the bad days seeking these MH.
This all conjecture on my part based on what I read so don't go hollering the Riot act at me :)
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That certainly does happen and quite often. However it still doesn’t change the fact we don’t have a single shred of proof MGM did was vegaspaulyc claims they did.
Remember vegaspaulyc is the same person responsible for creating that annoying vegasstarfish persona (who was getting paid by establishments for her video reviews) and now he collabs with tweaker jay fructose.
Quote: SlotenthusiastQuote: darkozThe original post mentioned that one player had flown in a team of 8 people who were all denied their comps, rooms etc.
So we aren't talking regular vultures. These are high limit vultures seeking opportunities worth traveling for.
My guess is this is how it works:
A spotter sees a MH for high amounts. He waits until the person on it leaves and then this team grabs the machine.
8 people will now drive the MH up until it's guaranteed to hit.
As each person takes his turn, he plays only until he has hit the max Theo for the day (he the point he will generate no further comps) and then he quits and hands it off to the next player.
Eventually there will be the big payout on the MH but meanwhile they maxed comps for the entire team so they can do it again.
East coast I have seen as high as $50,000 MH so it could be lucrative. And I could see how MGM might get frightened of these guys. The comps generated would offset the bad days seeking these MH.
This all conjecture on my part based on what I read so don't go hollering the Riot act at me :)
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That certainly does happen and quite often. However it still doesn’t change the fact we don’t have a single shred of proof MGM did was vegaspaulyc claims they did.
Remember vegaspaulyc is the same person responsible for creating that annoying vegasstarfish persona (who was getting paid by establishments for her video reviews) and now he collabs with tweaker jay fructose.
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I don't know anything about vegaapaulyc. Never heard of him until this thread.
There's at least one poster who just joined to state it's real.
I know that's hardly enough to go on but AP"s will probably not expose themselves (no pun intended). More likely they are quietly planning circumventing
So basically we have a plausible event which may never be confirmed.
Quote: darkozQuote: SlotenthusiastQuote: darkozThe original post mentioned that one player had flown in a team of 8 people who were all denied their comps, rooms etc.
So we aren't talking regular vultures. These are high limit vultures seeking opportunities worth traveling for.
My guess is this is how it works:
A spotter sees a MH for high amounts. He waits until the person on it leaves and then this team grabs the machine.
8 people will now drive the MH up until it's guaranteed to hit.
As each person takes his turn, he plays only until he has hit the max Theo for the day (he the point he will generate no further comps) and then he quits and hands it off to the next player.
Eventually there will be the big payout on the MH but meanwhile they maxed comps for the entire team so they can do it again.
East coast I have seen as high as $50,000 MH so it could be lucrative. And I could see how MGM might get frightened of these guys. The comps generated would offset the bad days seeking these MH.
This all conjecture on my part based on what I read so don't go hollering the Riot act at me :)
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That certainly does happen and quite often. However it still doesn’t change the fact we don’t have a single shred of proof MGM did was vegaspaulyc claims they did.
Remember vegaspaulyc is the same person responsible for creating that annoying vegasstarfish persona (who was getting paid by establishments for her video reviews) and now he collabs with tweaker jay fructose.
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I don't know anything about vegaapaulyc. Never heard of him until this thread.
There's at least one poster who just joined to state it's real.
I know that's hardly enough to go on but AP"s will probably not expose themselves (no pun intended). More likely they are quietly planning circumventing
So basically we have a plausible event which may never be confirmed.
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How would posting an email showing the sender but blurring out the recipient name expose anything especially someone’s identity?
Quote: darkozQuote: TigerWuI just tried googling this and literally no one else is talking about it except this one guy.
link to original post
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/rumor-mgm-cracking-down-on-slots-ap.210730/
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The thread darkoz linked is growing. I am impressed with the signal-to-noise ratio on that board compared to this forum. If anything, there is too much information shared over there. There is almost no actionable info about AP slot play on this forum.
Some folks might be on both forums, but there are several people over there who seem to have direct knowledge of what MGM did. I do not see any reason to doubt the story even if the original report is from someone with a dubious reputation.
Quote: MentalQuote: darkozQuote: TigerWuI just tried googling this and literally no one else is talking about it except this one guy.
link to original post
https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/rumor-mgm-cracking-down-on-slots-ap.210730/
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The thread darkoz linked is growing. I am impressed with the signal-to-noise ratio on that board compared to this forum. If anything, there is too much information shared over there. There is almost no actionable info about AP slot play on this forum.
Some folks might be on both forums, but there are several people over there who seem to have direct knowledge of what MGM did. I do not see any reason to doubt the story even if the original report is from someone with a dubious reputation.
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Thread closed.
Quote: rainman
Thread closed.
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It took me a minute to translate that.
"The foreign thread in the link above is now closed to further posts."
This thread remains open.
Quote: DieterQuote: rainman
Thread closed.
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It took me a minute to translate that.
"The foreign thread in the link above is now closed to further posts."
This thread remains open.
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Haha
What State are you in?
I believe MGM online is handled by a completely separate operation. Most of the apps are. They have nothing in common with the land casinos except the name. MGM online casino in my experience is heavily weighted to win-loss. They give you bonuses and then just as you turn a profit the offers dry up.Quote: Mental
The wording of the notification is very detailed and seems plausible to me.
I received an e-mail from an MGM online casino last year. The told me that my VIP status had been reviewed and that I no longer qualified as a VIP. I had actually been playing very heavily in the weeks prior to this and hit some amazing bonus rounds while playing slots. I certainly was not bounced for lack of play. I still get the low-roller promotional offers, but I stopped getting huge deposit match offers. This had been very lucrative. Interestingly, I still get occasional phone calls and e-mails from a random MGM slot host with smaller offers (less than $200 in EV).
I cannot think of another instance of a casino informing me that they were taking action against me. They normally just cut me off without a word.
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In my observation MGM casinos are usually sharp across the board. They may limit a player at table games but let them play machines. Whereas at Caesar’s if they suspect you of advantage play at tables it’s usually surround you with security, formal trespass from all properties, escort you out of your hotel room and close your players account.
Quote: sdg84Even though campers/vultures are annoying, I kind of doubt these players significantly impact bottom line. They indirectly annoy people and may cause some guests to play less but imo I don’t know any analyst can objectively validate this except being subjective. If they are truly camping, 1. They probably get very little action to get any free play that’s significant and 2. How can the casino audit that many machines to know if these are AP machines except for a few like buffalo ascension and regal riches. Seems like too much work on their part…. What’s probably easier is to see high roller guests who are banking on all the comps and may be getting a value of $10k+ per month in all benefits. These guests may be showing not only high comps but unrealistic Theo suggesting they are AP. On top, working with their hosts, they may be very difficult to deal with. My guess these are the guests that by taking away free play would actually be meaningful. I am starting to see some workers at casino starting to keep an eye on campers/vultures and machine checkers and asking them to stop/leave
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A normal AP just using their FP at MGM doesn’t change their bottom line. Someone living at the hotel using 4 different players cards for room and food comps does. That’s why they were cut off. MGM isn’t a homeless shelter.
I applaud MGM for their decision. All of the hobos have moved to Caesar’s and when Caesar’s cuts them off I guess they go back to china?
Real AP’s in Vegas are still getting offers, as they never stay on property and keep a low profile. Unlike the gangs of Asians and other homeless people who never leave the casino floor.
Quote: ChumpChangeLemme see if I can copy down the names of the slot machines he's referring to as AP-able.
Buffalo Ascension - Golden Link, Buffalo Link
Hexbreaker 3
Ocean Magic
Golden Jungle
Magic Of The Nile
Not machines I've played or even thought about playing, but that's saying nothing.
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I played some of these but lost mostly over all.
Quote: acesideQuote: ChumpChangeLemme see if I can copy down the names of the slot machines he's referring to as AP-able.
Buffalo Ascension - Golden Link, Buffalo Link
Hexbreaker 3
Ocean Magic
Golden Jungle
Magic Of The Nile
Not machines I've played or even thought about playing, but that's saying nothing.
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I played some of these but lost mostly over all.
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Some of these machines are so bad, even when they are "a play". I would say if I were running a casino I would be mixed on kicking out slot vultures. The thing about table games is if you play them straight up as most ap's would, there isn't much loss long term (theoretically). But if there's an opportunity on them then it doesn't take much to flip it to a player edge. So from the casino perspective even if the player isn't making much they are taking a seat from a ploppy who would lose more.
Slots on the other hand take so much more to overcome the house edge. Since there is so many hustlers, it has become a race to the bottom. Inevitably this leads to "ap's" playing numbers that are not +ev. I see the look on their face. They've literally spent all day looking for plays and found nothing. They finally find an ocean magic with one bubble on the fourth reel and they play it and lose. Or they get 4 or 10 of their family members and play a must hit by way too early. I've done all this too.
So it's a tough call. I find the people hanging on chairs watching other machines super annoying. But I'll bet half of them are losers in the end.
Quote: SandybestdogSo it's a tough call. I find the people hanging on chairs watching other machines super annoying. But I'll bet half of them are losers in the end.
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Kick out the campers.
Yes, some APs are degens and will play non-AP games because they're bored and want to play.
I've done that with nickle stp 6/5 BP. $10 last a loooooog time. Lol
But these guys pop in $100 at .88 bet and lose it quickly.
Even when they get a good hit or good Bonus, sometimes they'll keep playing till $0.
Unlike +EV, there's no natural stopping pt on non-AP machines.
As for playing an AP machine early, multi-carders are the ones that frequently do that at my casino.
Luckily they are not there that often
I agree. The campers are so annoying. As soon as someone gets up they’re over there dinging every denom even though they watched and know the person only played one bet level.Quote: 100xOddsQuote: SandybestdogSo it's a tough call. I find the people hanging on chairs watching other machines super annoying. But I'll bet half of them are losers in the end.
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Kick out the campers.
Yes, some APs are degens and will play non-AP games because they're bored and want to play.
I've done that with nickle stp 6/5 BP. $10 last a loooooog time. Lol
But these guys pop in $100 at .88 bet and lose it quickly.
Even when they get a good hit or good Bonus, sometimes they'll keep playing till $0.
Unlike +EV, there's no natural stopping pt on non-AP machines.
As for playing an AP machine early, multi-carders are the ones that frequently do that at my casino.
Luckily they are not there that often
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Not finding any plays and then playing video poker is my weakness. This is usually cause if I don’t play my freeplay through they’re going to shut me off. I don’t see any other “hustlers” playing vp. I think they’re just finding vulture machines with the littlest of plays and then lose on that. Like I see people playing the buffalo ascension with just the middle up all the time. That’s pretty much guaranteed to lose.
I do play must hits and other progressives early for card building and so do others. Obviously you can’t really get mad at someone or kick them out if they’re actually playing something.
LOL ,OFC they can and DO!Quote: SandybestdogObviously you can’t really get mad at someone or kick them out if they’re actually playing something.
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