lilredrooster
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May 19th, 2024 at 11:10:51 AM permalink
this is taken for a different forum - I put quotes around the wording that is not mine -

the woman says she hopes she gets her money before she dies - she had a heart attack last year



"Here's the NY Post article about it: https://nypost.com/2024/05/18/us-news/gambler-says-ballys-atlantic-city-wont-pay-2-5m-slot-machine-win/

The machine claimed "TILT" after she hit a $2.56m progressive jackpot, and she was told she was not eligible to win due to the machine's unspecified malfunction. Here's a picture of the machine (and there is more explanation below the pic)

.

.




The progressive jackpot of $1.28m shown above was actually $2.56m because she had a 2x multiplier.

According to the article, Bally's blames manufacturer IGT for this, and claims her gripe is with them. Kinda sounds like bullshit to me.

All machines in casinos have a disclaimer, "Malfunction voids all plays and pays", but they need to show how the machine actually malfunctioned, and how that malfunction caused the jackpot to occur. If the malfunction occurred after the jackpot was hit, or if it had nothing to do with the jackpot, then Bally's should owe the money.

She's suing both Bally's and IGT."


.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on May 19, 2024
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
lilredrooster
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May 19th, 2024 at 11:27:40 AM permalink
.
very interesting

this comment is also taken from the other forum - the wording is not mine - I put quotes around it:

.
"There was a very similar case back in the early 2000s where IGT was sued and had to award the jackpot. Also on a wheel of fortune machine, the plaintiffs successfully argued that any reel tilt or malfunction occurred AFTER the jackpot was hit."


https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/la-court-of-appeal/1080167.html

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
TigerWu
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May 19th, 2024 at 12:38:08 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster


"Malfunction voids all plays and pays",
link to original post



Wait, what? I've had slot machines malfunction on a losing spin before. Are they saying I should have gotten my money back?
Nathan
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May 19th, 2024 at 1:36:06 PM permalink
This reminds me of a Woman named Katrina who got a message saying something like,"42 Million Jackpot!" She was beyond excited and was expecting to get a roughly 42 Million check and the Casino told her it was a malfunction and wouldn't pay her the roughly 42 Million. She went to the news. What had actually happened was it was an actual malfunction and the most she could have won was only $250,000. The spin she did ACTUALLY LOST. They offered her a free steak dinner and she was like,"I don't want a free steak dinner, I want my roughly 42 minutes check! She said she was seriously considering suing. 💡
Last edited by: Nathan on May 19, 2024
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
DRich
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May 19th, 2024 at 5:27:28 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

Quote: lilredrooster


"Malfunction voids all plays and pays",
link to original post



Wait, what? I've had slot machines malfunction on a losing spin before. Are they saying I should have gotten my money back?
link to original post



Every casino that i have worked with would refund the bet after a malfunction.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Slotenthusiast
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May 20th, 2024 at 6:00:58 AM permalink
There is already case precedent for this. IGT will end up settling. She wonít get 2x the amount but just the amount on the meter at the time she won. (1.2 million)

The woman was betting the correct amount of coins, got the bonus, and the wheel landed on jackpot. Yes the rules state that on a multiplier spin the jackpot canít be awarded. However no one reads the rules not to mention the sticker on the machine saying malfunction voids all pays and plays.

The court in the prior case likely judged that the sticker on the machine didnít matter and nullified that part of the implied contract between player and machine. Why would a sticker outweigh what the machine is directly telling the player? Also the onus is on the manufacturer not the player. How could a machine land on the jackpot wedge erroneously? Arenít you testing your machines prior to releasing them? These are all questions the judge would ask. Theyíd also ask the jury to decide whether an average person seeing that result would think theyíd have won the jackpot.

The only difference in this case is that the rules screen exists on newer versions. Again the court will likely determine that as invalid as well. The player sees the wheel land on jackpot, The amount of the jackpot is also directly below the wheel.


Also doesnít help that the slot techs tampered with the machine before IGT could even take a look to see what happened.

This isnít the same as other cases where clear malfunctions occurred and the screen said the player won 5 million dollars without any kind of winning symbol combination on the screen.
MDawg
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May 20th, 2024 at 7:06:49 AM permalink
What exactly was on the screen in this case to which Nathan referred above?

What Happened to Katrina Bookman, the Woman Who Won Ė Then Was Denied Ė $42.9 Million at the Casino?

where Katrina Bookman not only didn't get the $42.9M but also not $6500. either, even after lawsuit.

"The Sphinx Wild jackpot isnít exactly known for being one of the highest RTP slots out there, nor for its jackpots. The amount of money Bookman wagered (40 cents) should have been $6,500.

Therefore, the $42.9 million jackpot was the result of the machine malfunctioning.

That meant Bookman wasnít entitled to the multi-million dollar payout. But, as a gesture of 'goodwill,' Resorts World NY offered her a free steak dinner and $2.25."
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
TigerWu
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May 20th, 2024 at 7:40:21 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: TigerWu

Quote: lilredrooster


"Malfunction voids all plays and pays",
link to original post



Wait, what? I've had slot machines malfunction on a losing spin before. Are they saying I should have gotten my money back?
link to original post



Every casino that i have worked with would refund the bet after a malfunction.
link to original post



I got screwed, then....LOL
Nathan
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May 20th, 2024 at 8:53:05 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

What exactly was on the screen in this case to which Nathan referred above?

What Happened to Katrina Bookman, the Woman Who Won Ė Then Was Denied Ė $42.9 Million at the Casino?

where Katrina Bookman not only didn't get the $42.9M but also not $6500. either, even after lawsuit.

"The Sphinx Wild jackpot isnít exactly known for being one of the highest RTP slots out there, nor for its jackpots. The amount of money Bookman wagered (40 cents) should have been $6,500.

Therefore, the $42.9 million jackpot was the result of the machine malfunctioning.

That meant Bookman wasnít entitled to the multi-million dollar payout. But, as a gesture of 'goodwill,' Resorts World NY offered her a free steak dinner and $2.25."
link to original post



Yep, that's the Katrina I was speaking of. WHY would she want a free steak dinner when she's expecting a roughly 42 Million check? 🤨🙄😒😵‍💫😱🥶😳🤔💡
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
darkoz
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May 20th, 2024 at 8:53:53 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

What exactly was on the screen in this case to which Nathan referred above?

What Happened to Katrina Bookman, the Woman Who Won Ė Then Was Denied Ė $42.9 Million at the Casino?

where Katrina Bookman not only didn't get the $42.9M but also not $6500. either, even after lawsuit.

"The Sphinx Wild jackpot isnít exactly known for being one of the highest RTP slots out there, nor for its jackpots. The amount of money Bookman wagered (40 cents) should have been $6,500.

Therefore, the $42.9 million jackpot was the result of the machine malfunctioning.

That meant Bookman wasnít entitled to the multi-million dollar payout. But, as a gesture of 'goodwill,' Resorts World NY offered her a free steak dinner and $2.25."
link to original post



I know the details of that case better than most.

They paid her $2.25 based on the winning combination of symbols on the screen plus a steak dinner. She refused and sued and lost.

Slots symbols values aren't random. Winning them is but the symbols themselves have monetary value. Looking at a slot chart on every slot (under the screen "help" or "payouts" etc, you can see the value of symbols. It might say three 7 = $5, four 7 = $50 five 7 = $500. The point is if you add the top symbols on any given game and the max lines available you can determine the max payout which in this case was $6500.

She didn't even get every top symbol. All she got were symbols that added up to $2.25.

Next, this occurred at resorts world aqueduct which is NYS lottery regulated racino so different rules than regular casinos. Legally they wouldn't even be able to pay the full $6500 because NYS gaming regulations are strict that payouts must match. NYS does heavy regulation of every dollar going in and out. All wins, (not just jackpots) go through the NYS central computer in Albany. And all extra payouts (for example casino giveaways like cars or even extra freeplay) must get their permission first.

Now onto the question of malfunction.

Being a racino, the jackpots are handled differently. There are no normal cash pays. Instead a player gets a TITO that says "Limited Jackpot" which is unplayable in slots. You have to cash at cashier.

Any jackpot over $5000 (used to be 2000) the slot locks up and an attendant has to unlock. But first he has to call over a supervisor for double verification AND THEN supervisor contacts surveillance which checks the claimant actually pushed the button.

(They just take the machines slot number, the computer shows them it won a jackpot at xx:xx o'clock and they type that into the camera footage, pulling up the exact millisecond the button was pushed on video. No rewinding, fast forward etc).

Once all is good. The attendant keys the machine which ejects the TITO jackpot.

Having won jackpots of $20,000+ there, I can tell you they take pics of the screen (for promotion "a jackpot was just won on...") and big enough they will walk the person to the cashier.

Soooo, this woman had a screen that said she won $42 mil, and a TITO printed for $42 million. No slot supervisor. No surveillance check, no keying of machine. That alone allowed the casino to understand immediately this was a malfunction. Literally all of the above made it damn obvious.

Her attorney smelled money but didn't do due diligence into whether the case was legit.

There was no way to get anywhere near that amount on that machine. No way TITO would have printed automatically on such a win. And no way NYS regulations would even allow such a ridiculously high payout (much less any payouts beyond actual wins) to occur.

Her case was dead upon birth.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Slotenthusiast
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May 21st, 2024 at 2:33:54 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

What exactly was on the screen in this case to which Nathan referred above?

What Happened to Katrina Bookman, the Woman Who Won Ė Then Was Denied Ė $42.9 Million at the Casino?

where Katrina Bookman not only didn't get the $42.9M but also not $6500. either, even after lawsuit.

"The Sphinx Wild jackpot isnít exactly known for being one of the highest RTP slots out there, nor for its jackpots. The amount of money Bookman wagered (40 cents) should have been $6,500.

Therefore, the $42.9 million jackpot was the result of the machine malfunctioning.

That meant Bookman wasnít entitled to the multi-million dollar payout. But, as a gesture of 'goodwill,' Resorts World NY offered her a free steak dinner and $2.25."
link to original post



FYI- The case above is nothing like the one the OP posted about. The lady in that case wasnít betting enough to win the top prize nor did the screen show a winning combination.
AitchTheLetter
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May 21st, 2024 at 3:08:19 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz


I know the details of that case better than most.
***BIG SNIP***
Her case was dead upon birth.
link to original post



Thank you very much for giving me the tools I needed to explain this to a family member. They have been outraged that I would work at a casino and every chance they got at family meetings they would harass me about it. At the most recent family gathering they brought this up and would not accept me explaining it how MDawg did.
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
darkoz
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May 21st, 2024 at 3:14:13 PM permalink
Quote: AitchTheLetter

Quote: darkoz


I know the details of that case better than most.
***BIG SNIP***
Her case was dead upon birth.
link to original post



Thank you very much for giving me the tools I needed to explain this to a family member. They have been outraged that I would work at a casino and every chance they got at family meetings they would harass me about it. At the most recent family gathering they brought this up and would not accept me explaining it how MDawg did.
link to original post



I'm glad I could help
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Gandler
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May 21st, 2024 at 6:00:00 PM permalink
It will be interesting to see how this plays out, similar recent cases that I have heard of over the last 10ish years seem to happen at Indian Casinos, where legal recourse is a total waste of time. Given that this is a normal casino, and also in NJ, will be a different dynamic.

However, everything I have read and heard on the radio today about this case shows she probably needs some major prioritization adjustments. She is struggling to survive, recovering from a recent heart attack, and trying to save up money to help her homeless son. And, she is over 1k down on slots on 1 night, and then hits a miracle jackpot. Maybe she should not have been playing slots (or been gambling at a casino) in the first place? I am shocked that this is a point is never brought up in any telling of the story. Yes, she got lucky (maybe, we'll see what happens) and ended up hitting with her last few dollars when she was feeling blessed and kept playing, how many people with that same mentality end up losing it all? I feel like too many people are focusing on the malfunction and lawsuit dynamic, and not commenting on the blatant gambling issues.
ChumpChange
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May 25th, 2024 at 9:02:47 PM permalink
Gamble Smart is on the case with a video about the Reel Tilt Error on the spin (with a screenshot). I've never heard of such a thing but slot techs have. Apparently the slot tech at the machine reset the machine to the spin before the jackpot and got it to spin again and she was awarded $350 instead of the top prize X 2. Not sure how RNG accurate that is either; it's just finding a new path, not resurrecting the old one and making it right, or is it?

Slot Player DENIED $1.2 Million Jackpot Due to Malfunction 🤔 Slot Tech Weighs In On What Happened
Slotenthusiast
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May 26th, 2024 at 12:19:05 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Gamble Smart is on the case with a video about the Reel Tilt Error on the spin (with a screenshot). I've never heard of such a thing but slot techs have. Apparently the slot tech at the machine reset the machine to the spin before the jackpot and got it to spin again and she was awarded $350 instead of the top prize X 2. Not sure how RNG accurate that is either; it's just finding a new path, not resurrecting the old one and making it right, or is it?

Slot Player DENIED $1.2 Million Jackpot Due to Malfunction 🤔 Slot Tech Weighs In On What Happened


link to original post



Was gamble smart there? Is he a lawyer? Iíve already proven him to be a complete hack. Same as cowboy slots. Their opinions arenít valid at all. ďYa so to win big ya just wanna slide the bet all the way to the right and bet the most you canĒ
Last edited by: Slotenthusiast on May 26, 2024
darkoz
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May 26th, 2024 at 2:14:34 AM permalink
Looking at the OP photo it is obvious to me she didn't win for two reasons.

One obviously is the slot shows a "tilt" malfunction.

But more importantly this is a linked slot and the adjacent slot has the same jackpot AND HASN'T RESET!

Had she won the progressive and the adjacent slot was still open and available for a different person to play, the progressive should have reset to its starting amount.

So for that reason I don't believe the won it.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
ChumpChange
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May 26th, 2024 at 8:54:13 AM permalink
The win meter says "0", not saying something that may not even fit in that little screen space; and it's grayed out by the reel tilt error message.
JoeTheDragon
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May 26th, 2024 at 9:17:04 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

The win meter says "0", not saying something that may not even fit in that little screen space; and it's grayed out by the reel tilt error message.
link to original post


but an spin can't be an zero bonus right?
JoeTheDragon
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May 26th, 2024 at 9:18:57 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Looking at the OP photo it is obvious to me she didn't win for two reasons.

One obviously is the slot shows a "tilt" malfunction.

But more importantly this is a linked slot and the adjacent slot has the same jackpot AND HASN'T RESET!

Had she won the progressive and the adjacent slot was still open and available for a different person to play, the progressive should have reset to its starting amount.

So for that reason I don't believe the won it.
link to original post


is the game coded to reset jackpot after the spin? What if the RNG came up jackpot and the wheel tilted before it was able to spin all the way?
heatmap
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May 27th, 2024 at 6:16:17 AM permalink
Quote: JoeTheDragon

Quote: darkoz

Looking at the OP photo it is obvious to me she didn't win for two reasons.

One obviously is the slot shows a "tilt" malfunction.

But more importantly this is a linked slot and the adjacent slot has the same jackpot AND HASN'T RESET!

Had she won the progressive and the adjacent slot was still open and available for a different person to play, the progressive should have reset to its starting amount.

So for that reason I don't believe the won it.
link to original post



The machine is programmed to display an outcome Ö the machine knows the outcome of the spin before it displays it to the player.

Iím not sure how much more I can be of any help here after what I just said to you though.
is the game coded to reset jackpot after the spin? What if the RNG came up jackpot and the wheel tilted before it was able to spin all the way?
link to original post

darkoz
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May 27th, 2024 at 7:27:26 AM permalink
Quote: JoeTheDragon

Quote: darkoz

Looking at the OP photo it is obvious to me she didn't win for two reasons.

One obviously is the slot shows a "tilt" malfunction.

But more importantly this is a linked slot and the adjacent slot has the same jackpot AND HASN'T RESET!

Had she won the progressive and the adjacent slot was still open and available for a different person to play, the progressive should have reset to its starting amount.

So for that reason I don't believe the won it.
link to original post


is the game coded to reset jackpot after the spin? What if the RNG came up jackpot and the wheel tilted before it was able to spin all the way?
link to original post



It's coded to reset the millisecond you press the button and win the linked jackpot. It takes a moment to populate so if you are quick enough you might catch it actually resetting.

I have won a number of these (smaller scale) and that's how they work so an adjacent player doesn't get s near simultaneous jackpot win and both players are eligible for the current meter. If the meter resets to $1000 and player two hits the jackpot a millisecond after me, he wins the reset amount.

I used this knowledge to jedi mind trick my girlfriend, Every time I would get a bonus spin I would state either "Yes, I won the jackpot " or "Nope, not this time." And I was correct 100% of the time.

She got so flustered she finally begged me to explain how I knew the outcome of the wheel spins long before they concluded.

I make a terrible magician. I showed her how to glance at the adjacent slot and see if the jackpot had reset.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Mukke
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May 28th, 2024 at 10:37:54 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz


It's coded to reset the millisecond you press the button and win the linked jackpot. It takes a moment to populate so if you are quick enough you might catch it actually resetting.

I have won a number of these (smaller scale) and that's how they work so an adjacent player doesn't get s near simultaneous jackpot win and both players are eligible for the current meter. If the meter resets to $1000 and player two hits the jackpot a millisecond after me, he wins the reset amount.

I used this knowledge to jedi mind trick my girlfriend, Every time I would get a bonus spin I would state either "Yes, I won the jackpot " or "Nope, not this time." And I was correct 100% of the time.

She got so flustered she finally begged me to explain how I knew the outcome of the wheel spins long before they concluded.

I make a terrible magician. I showed her how to glance at the adjacent slot and see if the jackpot had reset.
link to original post


Just to be clear, this works on some machines but not others.

I know of several variations:

In the following, assume 2 linked machine. You're playing the first machine, your arch nemesis is playing the second machine. You just pushed the button. Your neighbor is yet to play.

Variation 1: As soon as you pushed the button, the progressive amount was already allocated to you. The progressive amount will reset on the second machine before your machine informs you that you won. If your feature takes a while to complete, your neighbor might have time to play still, but even if he rapid fires, wins the same feature and progressive, he will only get the reset amount.

Variation 2: As soon as you pushed the button, the progressive amount was already allocated to you. If you take a while to progress through the feature the progressive amounts will NOT reset on the second machine display. If your arch nemesis continues playing and hits the feature, even if they trigger the same feature and progressive before you continue, they still only get the reset amount.

Variation 3: As soon as you pushed the button, the machine awarded you a progressive win, but the actual amount was NOT yet allocated to you. If you take a while to progress through the feature, and your arch nemesis continues playing and hits the feature, it is POSSIBLE for them to "steal" the progressive under your nose, and leave you with the rest amount.

The 3rd variation actually happened in my favor once. My neighbor got a pick 3-style feature but the touch screen decided to call it a day, so they couldn't actually pick symbols and had to wait for a tech to come reboot it. In the meantime (10 minutes later), I got the same pick-3 bonus and hit a very high Minor progressive, which reset it. 5 minutes later, neighbor machine has been rebooted and she's back to picking. She hits the same Minor progressive but only gets the reset amount.

If you know a machine is of type 3, you can actually take your sweet time and let the progressives keep rising. As long as you make sure to finish it BEFORE someone else are able to hit (and finish) their feature, you are technically racking up more $ (or likely, cents) that you are winning.
DRich
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May 28th, 2024 at 10:48:24 AM permalink
Quote: JoeTheDragon

Quote: darkoz

Looking at the OP photo it is obvious to me she didn't win for two reasons.

One obviously is the slot shows a "tilt" malfunction.

But more importantly this is a linked slot and the adjacent slot has the same jackpot AND HASN'T RESET!

Had she won the progressive and the adjacent slot was still open and available for a different person to play, the progressive should have reset to its starting amount.

So for that reason I don't believe the won it.
link to original post


is the game coded to reset jackpot after the spin? What if the RNG came up jackpot and the wheel tilted before it was able to spin all the way?
link to original post



I believe the machine she was playing was a Wheel of Fortune with a top box wheel attached. On those machines the RNG chooses the out of the three reels to spin before it spins them. After the reels complete spinning, if the reel outcome is a spin of the top box wheel then a secondary RNG event is triggered to determine what the outcome is of the top box wheel. Basically, there are two different events that control the payout. This first is the reel outcome and the second is the top box wheel selection.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
darkoz
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May 28th, 2024 at 10:50:53 AM permalink
Quote: Mukke

Quote: darkoz


It's coded to reset the millisecond you press the button and win the linked jackpot. It takes a moment to populate so if you are quick enough you might catch it actually resetting.

I have won a number of these (smaller scale) and that's how they work so an adjacent player doesn't get s near simultaneous jackpot win and both players are eligible for the current meter. If the meter resets to $1000 and player two hits the jackpot a millisecond after me, he wins the reset amount.

I used this knowledge to jedi mind trick my girlfriend, Every time I would get a bonus spin I would state either "Yes, I won the jackpot " or "Nope, not this time." And I was correct 100% of the time.

She got so flustered she finally begged me to explain how I knew the outcome of the wheel spins long before they concluded.

I make a terrible magician. I showed her how to glance at the adjacent slot and see if the jackpot had reset.
link to original post


Just to be clear, this works on some machines but not others.

I know of several variations:

In the following, assume 2 linked machine. You're playing the first machine, your arch nemesis is playing the second machine. You just pushed the button. Your neighbor is yet to play.

Variation 1: As soon as you pushed the button, the progressive amount was already allocated to you. The progressive amount will reset on the second machine before your machine informs you that you won. If your feature takes a while to complete, your neighbor might have time to play still, but even if he rapid fires, wins the same feature and progressive, he will only get the reset amount.

Variation 2: As soon as you pushed the button, the progressive amount was already allocated to you. If you take a while to progress through the feature the progressive amounts will NOT reset on the second machine display. If your arch nemesis continues playing and hits the feature, even if they trigger the same feature and progressive before you continue, they still only get the reset amount.

Variation 3: As soon as you pushed the button, the machine awarded you a progressive win, but the actual amount was NOT yet allocated to you. If you take a while to progress through the feature, and your arch nemesis continues playing and hits the feature, it is POSSIBLE for them to "steal" the progressive under your nose, and leave you with the rest amount.

The 3rd variation actually happened in my favor once. My neighbor got a pick 3-style feature but the touch screen decided to call it a day, so they couldn't actually pick symbols and had to wait for a tech to come reboot it. In the meantime (10 minutes later), I got the same pick-3 bonus and hit a very high Minor progressive, which reset it. 5 minutes later, neighbor machine has been rebooted and she's back to picking. She hits the same Minor progressive but only gets the reset amount.

If you know a machine is of type 3, you can actually take your sweet time and let the progressives keep rising. As long as you make sure to finish it BEFORE someone else are able to hit (and finish) their feature, you are technically racking up more $ (or likely, cents) that you are winning.
link to original post



Good points.

Variation 3 I am certain is due to the bonus being of a pick 3 (or some other pick requirement) such that player choices come into play.

The WOF wheel spin in the OP would be either Variation 1 Or 2.

I am surprised there is any Variation 2. Wouldn't someone have claimed they were owed the progressive actually shown on their meter and sued? If we are talking thousands there could be a legal argument that they should win what is displayed especially if that's NOT a malfunction but how they operate.
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Sandybestdog
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May 28th, 2024 at 5:51:43 PM permalink
Looking at the photo, a total guess I would come up with is the top wheel was spinning around and the machine was bumped at the exact moment the needle was pointing to the jackpot causing the whole machine to freeze up in the middle of the spin. When the tech fixed the tilt it probably continued the spin and landed on the predetermined outcome from the RNG. Iíve played faulty machines before that had some sensor off and an error will constantly pop up until you hit it back in place. It will freeze the screen and then resume it when the error goes away. If that is what happened itís unfortunate for the player but Iím sure it would have been obvious to them thatís what happened.
Wizard
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May 29th, 2024 at 9:17:08 AM permalink
I take Bally's/IGT's side on this one. Classic malfunction. This one isn't even very debatable. Player has a terrible argument.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
lilredrooster
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May 29th, 2024 at 10:38:04 AM permalink
.
since the story got a fair amount of publicity I am thinking they may wanna do something for her for the in the interests of public relations

$1.28 million is not a great sum of money to IGT__________just a little bit of pocket change

GTech acquired IGT in 2014 for a total of $6.4 billion


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Game_Technology

.
Last edited by: lilredrooster on May 29, 2024
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
ChumpChange
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May 29th, 2024 at 10:55:04 AM permalink
Would a $100,000 payout be enough to sustain a lifetime gambling career for her? I think I'd go with $640,000 first, but that's typically what you get after taxes on a $1.28 million jackpot anyway.
darkoz
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May 29th, 2024 at 11:57:28 AM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

.
since the story got a fair amount of publicity I am thinking they may wanna do something for her for the in the interests of public relations

$1.28 million is not a great sum of money to IGT__________just a little bit of pocket change

GTech acquired IGT in 2014 for a total of $6.4 billion


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Game_Technology

.
link to original post



From what I understand those aren't paid by the casino or IGT.

I remember reading somewhere the casinos pay for jackpot insurance. For those really astronomical payouts the insurance company has a payout plan.

Doubtful they would be willing to cover that
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
ChumpChange
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May 29th, 2024 at 12:11:16 PM permalink
I think they pay out over 20 years on these theme games. that'd be $64,000/year.
lilredrooster
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May 29th, 2024 at 12:45:34 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: lilredrooster

.
since the story got a fair amount of publicity I am thinking they may wanna do something for her for the in the interests of public relations

$1.28 million is not a great sum of money to IGT__________just a little bit of pocket change

GTech acquired IGT in 2014 for a total of $6.4 billion


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Game_Technology

.
link to original post



From what I understand those aren't paid by the casino or IGT.

I remember reading somewhere the casinos pay for jackpot insurance. For those really astronomical payouts the insurance company has a payout plan.

Doubtful they would be willing to cover that
link to original post


that is not in any way an astronomical sum of money for IGT - a multi billion dollar Corporation
even if insurance companies are normally the payers
IGT might be wise to pay her and earn some public relations brownie points

that's all I'm saying

.
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
ChumpChange
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May 29th, 2024 at 1:43:37 PM permalink
Gamble Smart is back with a part 2 analysis of the reel tilt error and the $350 payout being the correct one. The 2 lights on the upper wheel that indicate the Jackpot & $125 spots were in action to me though, so that's where the reel tilt error creeps in because only the center light for $35 is supposed to be lit. Gamble Smart says this is post game animation and the two lit arrows have nothing to do with the final state of the game at jackpot time.
This whole video is bunk without the original picture from the OP showing the Jackpot on the center wedge as a winner. In fact, this video is a reel tilt error. Please respin. Oh, this is the results of the respin and not an analysis of why the Jackpot was not awarded? Oh, Jackpot showed up on the respin but on the wrong wedge.


Comment of the day: When you hit a jackpot it says Call the Attendant.

2nd comment: The original photo shown by the woman in news reports has the jackpot wedge in the center with the error box visible on the bottom of the screen indicating that the wheel could not find the stop. This photo appears to be a follow up after the machine was reset and the bonus was completed. This does not change the outcome of the game, but it does bolster her statement that the game displayed the bonus spin as a jackpot win. I again wonder why the game would not error into a spin instead of stopping the wheel to avoid things like this.
Any jury would award this woman the money because people are generally pretty dumb about tech and also dislike casinos.

Gamble Smart replied: That makes sense - typically when a wheel tilts (reel or wheel), it keeps going or goes backwards, which makes me believe there was some kind of power loss to the wheel that resulted in the tilt. I think what happened is, they opened the machine, turned the attendant key once, then closed the machine (to which she said, 'they opened the machine and punched buttons'), which caused it to attempt to replay the actual spin (to which it appeared as if it did).
Last edited by: ChumpChange on May 29, 2024
ALEXLEEEEEEE
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May 30th, 2024 at 3:53:27 AM permalink
hello))))
ALEXLEEEEEEE
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May 30th, 2024 at 3:54:21 AM permalink
Quote: ALEXLEEEEEEE

hello))))
link to original post



I read about this woman's case, and itís just heartbreaking. Imagine thinking you won $2.56 million, only to be told it was a machine malfunction. Casinos really need to have better safeguards in place to prevent these kinds of situations. Itís not fair to the players who put their money and trust into these games.
ALEXLEEEEEEE
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May 30th, 2024 at 3:56:48 AM permalink
This incident makes you wonder about the integrity of slot machines. If a malfunction can lead to such a huge error, how can we be sure weíre getting a fair game? Casinos should be held accountable for these mistakes, especially when it comes to life-changing amounts of money.
DRich
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May 30th, 2024 at 8:05:23 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



From what I understand those aren't paid by the casino or IGT.

I remember reading somewhere the casinos pay for jackpot insurance. For those really astronomical payouts the insurance company has a payout plan.

Doubtful they would be willing to cover that
link to original post



That is definitely paid by IGT. If the customer takes it over 20 years IGT will purchase an annuity from a large bank and then that bank will make the payments.

Many years ago I was in charge of making the final decision on whether a player would get paid on some multi-million dollar slot jackpots. Basically I was sent the computer logs, slot logs, and video of the machine before I would tell our people whether everything looked legit and should be paid. It was kind of a power trip knowing I could determine if this person was getting millions of dollars or not.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Mukke
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May 30th, 2024 at 8:25:49 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz



From what I understand those aren't paid by the casino or IGT.

I remember reading somewhere the casinos pay for jackpot insurance. For those really astronomical payouts the insurance company has a payout plan.

Doubtful they would be willing to cover that
link to original post



That is definitely paid by IGT. If the customer takes it over 20 years IGT will purchase an annuity from a large bank and then that bank will make the payments.

Many years ago I was in charge of making the final decision on whether a player would get paid on some multi-million dollar slot jackpots. Basically I was sent the computer logs, slot logs, and video of the machine before I would tell our people whether everything looked legit and should be paid. It was kind of a power trip knowing I could determine if this person was getting millions of dollars or not.
link to original post



This is very interesting.

So. How often (if ever) did you actually end up denying someone a big win?
DRich
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May 30th, 2024 at 9:12:36 AM permalink
Quote: Mukke



So. How often (if ever) did you actually end up denying someone a big win?



I only worked on that project for a year or so and in that time we did not deny anyone. It was a new system at the time and we would get false jackpots. The people in the control room would call and say we just had a hit at XYZ casino. We would then dispatch a team to the site and find out no one was even playing the machine that signaled a jackpot. It happened enough that we started calling the casino to confirm it before we sent anyone out to the site.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Wizard
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May 30th, 2024 at 8:19:30 PM permalink
Quote: ALEXLEEEEEEE

This incident makes you wonder about the integrity of slot machines. If a malfunction can lead to such a huge error, how can we be sure weíre getting a fair game? Casinos should be held accountable for these mistakes, especially when it comes to life-changing amounts of money.
link to original post



Time for a random soul test. How many pounds are in two pounds?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
100xOdds
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May 31st, 2024 at 2:08:48 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Time for a random soul test. How many pounds are in two pounds?
link to original post


Why wouldn't skynet not know the answer to this or the color of a yellow banana?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
itsmejeff
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June 1st, 2024 at 7:09:59 AM permalink
The rules say that jackpots are not doubled, so she would only be owed 1x jackpot amount if she won, which she did not. However, no jury will sympathize with a casino or billion dollar gaming company. This woman will get paid and her attorney will take a third of it.
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Wizard

Time for a random soul test. How many pounds are in two pounds?
link to original post


Why wouldn't skynet not know the answer to this or the color of a yellow banana?
link to original post


Because LLMs are incredibly stupid.
DRich
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June 1st, 2024 at 7:16:50 AM permalink
Quote: itsmejeff

The rules say that jackpots are not doubled, so she would only be owed 1x jackpot amount if she won, which she did not. However, no jury will sympathize with a casino or billion dollar gaming company. This woman will get paid and her attorney will take a third of it.

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Wizard

Time for a random soul test. How many pounds are in two pounds?
link to original post


Why wouldn't skynet not know the answer to this or the color of a yellow banana?
link to original post


Because LLMs are incredibly stupid.

link to original post



If you look back through history the plaintiff rarely wins in these cases.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
itsmejeff
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June 1st, 2024 at 7:38:10 AM permalink
The appeal of the case everyone is bringing up regarding IGT and Wheel of Fortune slot machines.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/la-court-of-appeal/1080167.html
darkoz
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June 1st, 2024 at 8:14:44 AM permalink
Quote: itsmejeff

The appeal of the case everyone is bringing up regarding IGT and Wheel of Fortune slot machines.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/la-court-of-appeal/1080167.html
link to original post



That case everyone is bringing up is different.

I actually read the entire verdict.

It was determined that the machine actually hit the jackpot AND THEN malfunctioned.

Plaintiff brought an expert who testified that the casinos handling of the hard drives caused a loss of data so the verification could not happen and would have to rely solely on the physical position of the wheel.

No video surveillance was taken of the event but eyewitnesses including 2 who were unrelated to Plaintiff testified the machine operated like a jackpot hit and then malfunctioned AFTER 20 seconds.

The independent lab got the hard drives and recorded the forensics. At one point the lead examiner says "damn, they accidentally lost the data". When they questioned him on this statement he said he misspoke. But his statement on the forensic investigation video lined up so perfectly with what the Plaintiff expert said happened that he didn't seem credible. They also got him to admit that if he saw surveillance of footage of the incident that matched what the eyewitnesses saw, then he would call into question his forensic findings because the actions of the slot upon a win were specific and matched what the witnesses testified to.

The jury believed the eyewitness testimony and that the forensic guy was lying to protect the casino. Final verdict: jackpot was won AND THEN malfunction occurred. "Malfunction voids all pays and plays" does not refer to plays and then later malfunction so Plaintiff won.

Upon appeal the court had to decide only if the jury clearly erred in its verdict (for example if like stated above, the machine clearly was not displaying a jackpot but the jury simply found against casinos because they are rich or deserve to be punished).

The appellate found the same conclusion of the jury. That the forensic video and testimony from experts led to a strong possibility the jackpot was won AND THEN malfunctioned.

Appellate court did not decide the issue directly but found the jury had made their decision with forethought and fairness and upheld JURY'S decision. That was the extent of the Appellate overview.

While the machines involved are the same, the circumstances here are different and I don't think the Plaintiff will win IMHO.
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Brickapotamus
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June 1st, 2024 at 9:14:30 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Quote: itsmejeff

The appeal of the case everyone is bringing up regarding IGT and Wheel of Fortune slot machines.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/la-court-of-appeal/1080167.html
link to original post



That case everyone is bringing up is different.

I actually read the entire verdict.

It was determined that the machine actually hit the jackpot AND THEN malfunctioned.

Plaintiff brought an expert who testified that the casinos handling of the hard drives caused a loss of data so the verification could not happen and would have to rely solely on the physical position of the wheel.

No video surveillance was taken of the event but eyewitnesses including 2 who were unrelated to Plaintiff testified the machine operated like a jackpot hit and then malfunctioned AFTER 20 seconds.

The independent lab got the hard drives and recorded the forensics. At one point the lead examiner says "damn, they accidentally lost the data". When they questioned him on this statement he said he misspoke. But his statement on the forensic investigation video lined up so perfectly with what the Plaintiff expert said happened that he didn't seem credible. They also got him to admit that if he saw surveillance of footage of the incident that matched what the eyewitnesses saw, then he would call into question his forensic findings because the actions of the slot upon a win were specific and matched what the witnesses testified to.

The jury believed the eyewitness testimony and that the forensic guy was lying to protect the casino. Final verdict: jackpot was won AND THEN malfunction occurred. "Malfunction voids all pays and plays" does not refer to plays and then later malfunction so Plaintiff won.

Upon appeal the court had to decide only if the jury clearly erred in its verdict (for example if like stated above, the machine clearly was not displaying a jackpot but the jury simply found against casinos because they are rich or deserve to be punished).

The appellate found the same conclusion of the jury. That the forensic video and testimony from experts led to a strong possibility the jackpot was won AND THEN malfunctioned.

Appellate court did not decide the issue directly but found the jury had made their decision with forethought and fairness and upheld JURY'S decision. That was the extent of the Appellate overview.

While the machines involved are the same, the circumstances here are different and I don't think the Plaintiff will win IMHO.
link to original post



I didnít see it in the case information, but I wonder if in that case the progressive reset or did not reset.
jjjoooggg
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June 1st, 2024 at 9:29:01 AM permalink
Juries today are unfriendly to corporations.

I reviewed a contract that had a clause ďwaive trial by jury.Ē
Last edited by: jjjoooggg on Jun 1, 2024
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itsmejeff
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June 1st, 2024 at 9:39:39 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

things


The appeal has the facts of that case. It is the only reason I posted that.

As for the udder stuff, this is not just about winning, but also about her emotional distress claim. The company, IGT, made no effort to prevent this situation from occurring. The wheel had an error--a "tilt" in the parlance of slot machinery--yet the only indication was an error message on the very bottom far from the wheel. The win space illumination indicator also remains illuminated. Anyone who say this would assume that the jackpot was won. If you walked by, you would be unlikely to notice the error. Even players are likely directed to "look up." IGT, as the biggest slot machine manufacturer, should have the forethought to understand that these errors can cause severe harm to gamblers. I do not even think neglect is a strong enough word here. The only way to describe IGT's action is malicious.

If I was on the jury, I would no vote the slot win, but yes vote any damages for emotional whatevers.
ChumpChange
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June 1st, 2024 at 9:45:23 AM permalink
There was a gambler on Youtube who played a certain video poker machine that malfunctioned every time he hit a Royal Flush as it was counting up the credits. The machine would just glitch out as it was counting up credits. The tech saw that he won the Royal and awarded him the hand pay and the machine was rebooted. That's what I would expect from this WOF fiasco. The techs should have called IGT over before getting around to any respins. I guess it takes weeks for them to show up. Carry your cell phone camera with you when you play slots. It probably errored out trying to double the Jackpot when it shouldn't.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Jun 1, 2024
DRich
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June 1st, 2024 at 10:22:03 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz



No video surveillance was taken of the event but eyewitnesses including 2 who were unrelated to Plaintiff testified the machine operated like a jackpot hit and then malfunctioned AFTER 20 seconds.



That is surprising as most jurisdictions require all of the large jackpot machines to have camera coverage.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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