Has Vulturing gone the way of the dodo

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Why would an AP poison the well?
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You tell me, I've been asking myself the same thing since I started.
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I keep coming back to two ideas.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Perhaps people wrongly think they will be in the good graces of a club by helping make conditions unfavorable for scavengers. I think this is a footgun.

"Never smarten up a chump." I'm actually a bit torn on this, because a bobble-sign that says "This game has non-random features. Do not allow yourself to be chased away from pending value by a scammer!" may be justified.
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There have been casinos that put signs like that on the machines. There are just too many problems and issues with vultureable machines.

Quote: darkoz

I just listened to that video. I find the whole argument disingenuous.

So the casinos should be concerned that ploppies aren't getting proper value because they lose quicker when the AP games are negative. So they have a worse experience and don't want to come back.

That seems to be their argument.

Okay then why would a casino install triple zero roulette where ploppies who don't get it will lose their money faster and not come back because of their worse experience?

I can't stand hypocrisy!
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Or “Players can’t tell what the RTP is so we set all our machines at 85%”

Quote: AxelWolf

I think there's a way to solve some of the new machine Vulturing problems, it won't stop Advantage Players, but it will cut down on vultures.

In its simplicity, figure out how to give the ploppies back their earned value before they leave the machine.

For example, once the game hits positive territory or close, and once someone cashes out or makes their last spin, have a notice pop up on the machine saying, "Hey valued player if you are planning on not continuing on this machine before you leave make sure to click here to get your free bonus spin or collect your earned/free winnings.

I can't remember the name now, but I believe there was a video poker game with a wheel (Wheel Poker?)that came out probably around the time that The Cosmo opened and did something similar to this.

Yes, I understand there are all kinds of problems with a simplistic method such as I described, but I believe a think-tank that involved Advantage Players could come up with something pretty damn good similar to this.

I bet Ahigh could come up with something with help from an Advantage Player.
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When persistent state was just starting to be a thing, the games did this. WMS had "Win It Again" (video of a very, very canadian fellow playing the game). The game would track your last five plays and if you got three cascades or something, you would win all the prizes on the board again. You could also choose to take a random shot at getting the prizes by click a button or cashing out.

This was also seen in the class II realm. Some company had an accumulating meter for free games or some bonus prize. You could take the accumulated prize value by cashing out.

The problem with this idea is that advantage states are built to get people to play and chase. If you see that the pigs are at 20 spins for $45/spin, you sit down and play it, get a blue out, and win 16x your bet before walking away angry. A fresh board does not induce people to play and most definitely does not get people to sink a bucket of coins into a bad state.

Quote: itsmejeff

Quote: AxelWolf

I think there's a way to solve some of the new machine Vulturing problems, it won't stop Advantage Players, but it will cut down on vultures.

In its simplicity, figure out how to give the ploppies back their earned value before they leave the machine.

For example, once the game hits positive territory or close, and once someone cashes out or makes their last spin, have a notice pop up on the machine saying, "Hey valued player if you are planning on not continuing on this machine before you leave make sure to click here to get your free bonus spin or collect your earned/free winnings.

I can't remember the name now, but I believe there was a video poker game with a wheel (Wheel Poker?)that came out probably around the time that The Cosmo opened and did something similar to this.

Yes, I understand there are all kinds of problems with a simplistic method such as I described, but I believe a think-tank that involved Advantage Players could come up with something pretty damn good similar to this.

I bet Ahigh could come up with something with help from an Advantage Player.
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When persistent state was just starting to be a thing, the games did this. WMS had "Win It Again" (video of a very, very canadian fellow playing the game). The game would track your last five plays and if you got three cascades or something, you would win all the prizes on the board again. You could also choose to take a random shot at getting the prizes by click a button or cashing out.

This was also seen in the class II realm. Some company had an accumulating meter for free games or some bonus prize. You could take the accumulated prize value by cashing out.

The problem with this idea is that advantage states are built to get people to play and chase. If you see that the pigs are at 20 spins for $45/spin, you sit down and play it, get a blue out, and win 16x your bet before walking away angry. A fresh board does not induce people to play and most definitely does not get people to sink a bucket of coins into a bad state.
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That's why I had said not to offer a buyout until the games were close to +EV so they still got inflated, however, I don't know if gaming would approve such a thing. And that still leaves the door open to Advantage Players looking to earn free play mail. I'm sure if they get creative enough they can make games look inflated and attractive even at reset.

Quote: Dieter

"Never smarten up a chump." I'm actually a bit torn on this, because a bobble-sign that says "This game has non-random features. Do not allow yourself to be chased away from pending value by a scammer!" may be justified.

What if the chump is also an advantage player? I may resemble that. As one who played advantages over my last 20 years in Vegas and made a fair amount of money doing it, but also designed slot machines and looked for methods to slow down AP's I may be that person.

People can play on both sides of the tracks without necessarily being an enemy of either side,

I recently ran to a Flock of Vultures at a Casino I hadn't visited in OVER a YEAR! It was one of the lesser frequented Casinos in AC, on the Marina side. Since I was in town the whole week for a convention and needed a Friday night, I had to stay here and had no complaints. Rooms were nicer since last visit, check in was super easy with Kiosk and the new eateries were quite good!

EXCEPT... these vultures were clearly working in teams and seemingly were at war with one another when a machine was getting a LOT of action. I even saw the "Leader" storm a machine and tell an elderly Asian woman to buzz off when she tried to poach the machine after their mark lost his money.

I started messing with the leader when he was brazenly sitting behind me while I played Buffalo Ascension by taking out my Phone and pretending to take selfies, but clearly having his fat, greedy face in the frame and kept holding the phone up High for him to see. He finally noticed it, threw a hissy fit and buggered off!

Funny enough, the machine went into the Super Stampede mode not long after and I made out a little over $800! If only he didn't get scared off... Hahaha!

Quote: 7NeverWins

I recently ran to a Flock of Vultures at a Casino I hadn't visited in OVER a YEAR! It was one of the lesser frequented Casinos in AC, on the Marina side. Since I was in town the whole week for a convention and needed a Friday night, I had to stay here and had no complaints. Rooms were nicer since last visit, check in was super easy with Kiosk and the new eateries were quite good!

EXCEPT... these vultures were clearly working in teams and seemingly were at war with one another when a machine was getting a LOT of action. I even saw the "Leader" storm a machine and tell an elderly Asian woman to buzz off when she tried to poach the machine after their mark lost his money.

I started messing with the leader when he was brazenly sitting behind me while I played Buffalo Ascension by taking out my Phone and pretending to take selfies, but clearly having his fat, greedy face in the frame and kept holding the phone up High for him to see. He finally noticed it, threw a hissy fit and buggered off!

Funny enough, the machine went into the Super Stampede mode not long after and I made out a little over $800! If only he didn't get scared off... Hahaha!
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The irony of course would have been if casino surveillance trespassed you for taking photos of the other customers.

And I am half serious too.

Quote: 7NeverWins

I recently ran to a Flock of Vultures at a Casino I hadn't visited in OVER a YEAR! It was one of the lesser frequented Casinos in AC, on the Marina side. Since I was in town the whole week for a convention and needed a Friday night, I had to stay here and had no complaints. Rooms were nicer since last visit, check in was super easy with Kiosk and the new eateries were quite good!

EXCEPT... these vultures were clearly working in teams and seemingly were at war with one another when a machine was getting a LOT of action. I even saw the "Leader" storm a machine and tell an elderly Asian woman to buzz off when she tried to poach the machine after their mark lost his money.

I started messing with the leader when he was brazenly sitting behind me while I played Buffalo Ascension by taking out my Phone and pretending to take selfies, but clearly having his fat, greedy face in the frame and kept holding the phone up High for him to see. He finally noticed it, threw a hissy fit and buggered off!

Funny enough, the machine went into the Super Stampede mode not long after and I made out a little over $800! If only he didn't get scared off... Hahaha!
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Admittedly I've messed with some aggressive vultures a few times by leaving a screen full of Wilds/ multipliers visible while I just chilled out talking on the phone and or making it look like I was getting ready to leave.

Perhaps that would be a good tactic for these competing crews, Have an unknown member slow play something really juicy so the other team waste their time camping behind it while you go scrape up all the other good stuff.

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: 7NeverWins

I recently ran to a Flock of Vultures at a Casino I hadn't visited in OVER a YEAR! It was one of the lesser frequented Casinos in AC, on the Marina side. Since I was in town the whole week for a convention and needed a Friday night, I had to stay here and had no complaints. Rooms were nicer since last visit, check in was super easy with Kiosk and the new eateries were quite good!

EXCEPT... these vultures were clearly working in teams and seemingly were at war with one another when a machine was getting a LOT of action. I even saw the "Leader" storm a machine and tell an elderly Asian woman to buzz off when she tried to poach the machine after their mark lost his money.

I started messing with the leader when he was brazenly sitting behind me while I played Buffalo Ascension by taking out my Phone and pretending to take selfies, but clearly having his fat, greedy face in the frame and kept holding the phone up High for him to see. He finally noticed it, threw a hissy fit and buggered off!

Funny enough, the machine went into the Super Stampede mode not long after and I made out a little over $800! If only he didn't get scared off... Hahaha!
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Admittedly I've messed with some aggressive vultures a few times by leaving a screen full of Wilds/ multipliers visible while I just chilled out talking on the phone and or making it look like I was getting ready to leave. If you really want to drive them nutty you just switch to another game after they've seen all the juicy multipliers and wild sitting there.

Perhaps that would be a good tactic for these competing crews, Have an unknown member slow play something really juicy so the other team waste their time camping behind it while you go scrape up all the other good stuff.
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Why are teams messing with Buffalo Ascension?

According to the guy in the video all you have to do is walk into a casino find an MHB $10k at $9900 and make $10k in 20 minutes.

Somebody already playing it? Just give them $500 & tell them to scram.

Then take the money & run & the casino never sees it again because why would you ever go back to a place where you can make $10k in 20 minutes?

Only downside is the ploppy that would of hit the $10k and then dump it all back in that night plus another $2,000 of his own money chasing that big win high doesn’t have as good of time as he would of since instead he just leaves up a few hundred.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: Brickapotamus

Quote: Nathan

Quote: Mukke

I have definitely seen AP games come in strong and then die out very quickly thereafter. Whether it's 3 months or 6 months I'm not really counting. Many games are best the first month or 2 and after that they already take a dive, though. So I do agree with that sentiment, regardless of whether the 3 month number is 100% accurate or not.
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Yep, the Rashina links games were good at FIRST and I was constantly winning BIG money off of them, but after about a month, they payouts became and are STILL ATROCIOUS and I was quickly losing money on this game when I was at first winning BIG money off of them..☢️
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What are the Rashina Links games? Never seen or heard of them & a Google search shows nothing
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Those are AP games where vultures try to rush you off the game.

"Stop Rashina me!"
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Lmao

Quote: AxelWolf

Perhaps that would be a good tactic for these competing crews, Have an unknown member slow play something really juicy so the other team waste their time camping behind it while you go scrape up all the other good stuff.

I was once playing some Ultimate X in the high limit room at RIO and a nice guy came over and offered to teach me how to play it. I played along and he showed me it was best to switch games immediately after getting dealt a straight or better. I obliged and he sat next to me for over an hour as I would switch games every time after getting a dealt winner (I believe I was playing $1 denom). Once I exhausted all 12 games and left big multipliers on each game he suggested I quit as the machine was all paid out. I started to stand up and he almost wet himself with excitement. I then said I felt lucky and wanted to try one more time. I played one hand on each game and then left. He was pissed and cussing at me for wasting two hours of his time. I loved it.

Quote: Brickapotamus

Quote: Nathan

Quote: Mukke

I have definitely seen AP games come in strong and then die out very quickly thereafter. Whether it's 3 months or 6 months I'm not really counting. Many games are best the first month or 2 and after that they already take a dive, though. So I do agree with that sentiment, regardless of whether the 3 month number is 100% accurate or not.
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Yep, the Rashina links games were good at FIRST and I was constantly winning BIG money off of them, but after about a month, they payouts became and are STILL ATROCIOUS and I was quickly losing money on this game when I was at first winning BIG money off of them..☢️
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What are the Rashina Links games? Never seen or heard of them & a Google search shows nothing
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It's actually Rashiba games(I typed n instead of a b) it's a game where you get money orbs much like lightning link games. The non money orbs payouts are ATROCIOUS, but the money orbs payouts can be REALLY lucrative. When Rashiba games first came out, I was CONSTANTLY winning around $100 on .88 bets, but the money orbs have gotten REALLY paltry afterwards. They are also far and few between to make matters worse ☢️ The tiger is the scatter symbol and leads to the bonus. 💡 The Emperor or the Warrior is the wild. 💡