Are Bonus games predetermined?

Asian drum games, lightning link, dragon Link, buffalo, etc

When you get the bonus spins, does the machine already know how much you're going to win?

Quote: 100xOdds

When you get the bonus spins, does the machine already know how much you're going to win?
link to original post

Speaking as someone who has designed hundreds of slot machines, no. It's much easier to design the game assuming natural reels in any spin and results in a more natural feeling for the player. There is really no reason to gaff a game except to comply with class I or II regulations.

I agree with the Wizard. Games with bonus spins are unlikely to be predetermined.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: 100xOdds

When you get the bonus spins, does the machine already know how much you're going to win?
link to original post

Speaking as someone who has designed hundreds of slot machines, no. It's much easier to design the game assuming natural reels in any spin and results in a more natural feeling for the player. There is really no reason to gaff a game except to comply with class I or II regulations.
link to original post

Thx.

I know most games that have a Progressive round is predetermined and your picks are just fluff.
How about hitting the Progressives in the Jeweled Bags game?


This game is a little different than the Progressive picks in the Asian drum or Link games.
ie: If the Red bag is jeweled, then you get extra coins that may contain Progressive pieces

Is the progressive not pre-determined for this game?
Or is a jeweled Red bag also meaningless Progressive wise?

I used to play the Sopranos a good bit. There was a bonus that was rarely triggered that I must have hit 20-25 times. If you successfully got through the first few things, you had a choice of three. Hit the right one, and the bonus continues. Otherwise it ended. When I get twenty-plus chances to correctly pick a one-in-three chance and never guess correctly, I think it is gaffed. It wasn't a large sample but large enough for me to conclude it was pre-ordained. It didn't bother me because to get to that point, you had already collected a hefty bonus.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: 100xOdds

When you get the bonus spins, does the machine already know how much you're going to win?
link to original post

Speaking as someone who has designed hundreds of slot machines, no. It's much easier to design the game assuming natural reels in any spin and results in a more natural feeling for the player. There is really no reason to gaff a game except to comply with class I or II regulations.
link to original post

I read OP's question as a completely different question than the one you answered.

When you initiate a spin with cash and there is no further player input that is possible, then the algorithm inside the game usually "already knows how much you're going to win?". At this point, the result is fully determined and the spinning of the reels is fully determined. If I am playing for a contest, the contest leaderboard based on coin out, the leaderboard is sometimes updated well before the reels stop spinning.

The game algorithm could just as easily do all the calculations for every bonus spin as soon as the algorithm has determined that the initial spin has awarded bonus spins. I have had bonus spins that lasted more than a half hour. The game could know how much I am going to win a half hour before I know.

In my experience, there is a different behavior for bonus rounds. The real-time leaderboards do not update until the last bonus spin is initiated. If I am receiving a W-2G, this fact is not logged until I have initiated the last spin. (I can interrupt an online bonus game and view the logs at any time, then resume the game.) This does not show that the winning amount is not calculated immediately, but it suggest to me that the bonus spins are calculated one at a time as they are initiated but before the reels stop spinning.

At one site, I am frequently prevented from seeing the last bonus spin because a W-2G pop up window terminates the game before the first reel of the last spin has locked into place.

Quote: billryan

I used to play the Sopranos a good bit. There was a bonus that was rarely triggered that I must have hit 20-25 times. If you successfully got through the first few things, you had a choice of three. Hit the right one, and the bonus continues. Otherwise it ended. When I get twenty-plus chances to correctly pick a one-in-three chance and never guess correctly, I think it is gaffed. It wasn't a large sample but large enough for me to conclude it was pre-ordained. It didn't bother me because to get to that point, you had already collected a hefty bonus.
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I had similar data for several of these types of games and I agree that match-three bonuses are usually gaffed.

But, the OP is specifically about bonus spins.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: 100xOdds

When you get the bonus spins, does the machine already know how much you're going to win?
link to original post

Speaking as someone who has designed hundreds of slot machines, no. It's much easier to design the game assuming natural reels in any spin and results in a more natural feeling for the player. There is really no reason to gaff a game except to comply with class I or II regulations.
link to original post

What about something like Cashman, where you hit a bonus and can pick either the box or spins? Will the amount be the same either way? Or, again Cashman, where you pick stars; are the stars fixed and the bonus varies, or is the bonus going to be what it is regardless of which star you pick?

Quote: Mosca

Quote: Wizard

Quote: 100xOdds

When you get the bonus spins, does the machine already know how much you're going to win?
link to original post

Speaking as someone who has designed hundreds of slot machines, no. It's much easier to design the game assuming natural reels in any spin and results in a more natural feeling for the player. There is really no reason to gaff a game except to comply with class I or II regulations.
link to original post

What about something like Cashman, where you hit a bonus and can pick either the box or spins? Will the amount be the same either way? Or, again Cashman, where you pick stars; are the stars fixed and the bonus varies, or is the bonus going to be what it is regardless of which star you pick?
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I know of one game where you can choose to receive a certain number of spins or you can choose a random award. The random award is always chosen from a handful of values between a min and a max value. In contrast, the spins can result in very large wins or zero wins. Therefore, the amount of the bonus is definitely not predetermined to be the same for either player choice.

Quote: Mental

When you initiate a spin with cash and there is no further player input that is possible, then the algorithm inside the game usually "already knows how much you're going to win?". At this point, the result is fully determined and the spinning of the reels is fully determined. If I am playing for a contest, the contest leaderboard based on coin out, the leaderboard is sometimes updated well before the reels stop spinning.

The game algorithm could just as easily do all the calculations for every bonus spin as soon as the algorithm has determined that the initial spin has awarded bonus spins. I have had bonus spins that lasted more than a half hour. The game could know how much I am going to win a half hour before I know.

In my experience, there is a different behavior for bonus rounds. The real-time leaderboards do not update until the last bonus spin is initiated. If I am receiving a W-2G, this fact is not logged until I have initiated the last spin. (I can interrupt an online bonus game and view the logs at any time, then resume the game.) This does not show that the winning amount is not calculated immediately, but it suggest to me that the bonus spins are calculated one at a time as they are initiated but before the reels stop spinning.

At one site, I am frequently prevented from seeing the last bonus spin because a W-2G pop up window terminates the game before the first reel of the last spin has locked into place.
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Are you playing class III games?

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Mental

When you initiate a spin with cash and there is no further player input that is possible, then the algorithm inside the game usually "already knows how much you're going to win?". At this point, the result is fully determined and the spinning of the reels is fully determined. If I am playing for a contest, the contest leaderboard based on coin out, the leaderboard is sometimes updated well before the reels stop spinning.

The game algorithm could just as easily do all the calculations for every bonus spin as soon as the algorithm has determined that the initial spin has awarded bonus spins. I have had bonus spins that lasted more than a half hour. The game could know how much I am going to win a half hour before I know.

In my experience, there is a different behavior for bonus rounds. The real-time leaderboards do not update until the last bonus spin is initiated. If I am receiving a W-2G, this fact is not logged until I have initiated the last spin. (I can interrupt an online bonus game and view the logs at any time, then resume the game.) This does not show that the winning amount is not calculated immediately, but it suggest to me that the bonus spins are calculated one at a time as they are initiated but before the reels stop spinning.

At one site, I am frequently prevented from seeing the last bonus spin because a W-2G pop up window terminates the game before the first reel of the last spin has locked into place.
link to original post

Are you playing class III games?
link to original post

Yes. Class III games.

I don't see anything unusual about the game software determining the outcome of all reels before the results are shown to the player via the display. However, I would like the rules to disclose any situation where the player is apparently given a pivotal choice when in fact the choice has no impact on the outcome of the game.

I have seen rules stating that games must display the winning combination to the player, but this rule is often violated when the game outcome is a win greater than $1200.

Quote: Mental

Yes. Class III games.

I don't see anything unusual about the game software determining the outcome of all reels before the results are shown to the player via the display.

Neither do I. It's possible the game runs through all the bonus spins before the first one is completed graphically. I'd be interested in what DRich says.

Quote:

However, I would like the rules to disclose any situation where the player is apparently given a pivotal choice when in fact the choice has no impact on the outcome of the game.
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So would I. I think a good indication that the result is predestined is that the wins of the unchosen options are shown.

Quote: Mental

I have seen rules stating that games must display the winning combination to the player, but this rule is often violated when the game outcome is a win greater than $1200.

Can you expand on this? What scenarios are happening where the outcome is not shown on wins of $1200 or more?

Quote: Wizard

Quote: Mental

Yes. Class III games.

I don't see anything unusual about the game software determining the outcome of all reels before the results are shown to the player via the display.

Neither do I. It's possible the game runs through all the bonus spins before the first one is completed graphically. I'd be interested in what DRich says.

Quote:

However, I would like the rules to disclose any situation where the player is apparently given a pivotal choice when in fact the choice has no impact on the outcome of the game.
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So would I. I think a good indication that the result is predestined is that the wins of the unchosen options are shown.
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I don't recall any games in Class III where the bonus spins were predetermined before each individual spin result was disiplayed.

Quote: DRich

I don't recall any games in Class III where the bonus spins were predetermined before each individual spin result was disiplayed.
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Me neither, but I don't have much to do with the presentation of the games I do. Furthermore, I tend to work with the smaller companies that are online only and keep things to a low budget.

I could be wrong about this, but I used to play a lot of $0.25 100-play video poker. As I recall, if you had a hand like four to a royal, as soon you pressed the "draw" button, the W2G music would play and the light would go, before the hands would finish playing out on the draw, whenever the final "win" got to $1200 or more.

Making the point that in video poker at least, the game determined the outcome immediately and then took it's time to display the results.

Quote: DRich

I don't recall any games in Class III where the bonus spins were predetermined before each individual spin result was disiplayed.
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Just to be clear, I am only seeing evidence that the full spin is already calculated before the first reel has settled for that one spin. I don't have evidence that the results of the next spin are calculated before the previous spin is displayed. Most games have spin stop. My guess is that the next spin is determined as soon as the spin plays out and any win from that spin is rung up on the meter.

An alternative method of programming reels would be to randomly pick the stop position for the first reel, let it spin out, then randomly pick the stop position for the next reel, etc. My understanding is that the game logic and the display logic are separate software modules. They are kept isolated so it is easier to test the game logic and make sure there are no back doors, etc. The display module has to communicate back to the game logic to tell it to produce the results of the next spin. I would think security principle would dictate that communication between the modules would be minimized. Calculating each reel stop in a separate operation would require more communication. I also think calculating all of the reel stops at once makes it much easier to program the spin stop graphics.

I just did an experiment with an online slot game where you can buy bonus rounds with free spins. This game frequently retriggers more free spins. I recorded the server time where I triggered the bonus round, then the time that the last spin started. Finally, I recorded the time that the game finished the last spin and rang up the payout. The second number on the second line in each triplet is the server time when the win was recorded in the transaction log. You can see that the result is logged about the time that I recorded as the start time of the last spin, not the start time of the bonus round and not the ending time of the bonus round.

7:40
8:02 8:03
8:16

8:55
9:14 9:14
9:23

13:45
14:16 14:19
14:28

15:25
17:16 17:21
17:32

18:23
20:12 20:13
20:16

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental

I have seen rules stating that games must display the winning combination to the player, but this rule is often violated when the game outcome is a win greater than $1200.

Can you expand on this? What scenarios are happening where the outcome is not shown on wins of $1200 or more?
link to original post

I have posted this many times before. Here are the circumstances:

(1) I am playing at a site that requires that I acknowledge W-2G forms when they arise.
(2) I trigger a bonus round.
(3) The last spin of the bonus round will cause the total win of the bonus round to be a W-2G payout.

If all three of these conditions are present, I will never see the last spin of the bonus round. I will be logged out of the game instantly after the penultimate spin. I will then see a pop up form with the W-2G amount and a checkbox which I must check before I can dismiss the form. I can then reopen the same slot game by choosing it from the game list. However, the game will reopen displaying the reels that triggered the bonus round. That is usually a game where 3 or more special symbols landed on the reels. I will not see the actual last game spin which was the last spin of the bonus round. I just never appears on my screen. Nada. Zilch. If I have gametime turned on, it will not record the last spin of the bonus round. I never get to see the results of a spin that I paid for.

Quote: Mental

I have posted this many times before. Here are the circumstances:

(1) I am playing at a site that requires that I acknowledge W-2G forms when they arise.
(2) I trigger a bonus round.
(3) The last spin of the bonus round will cause the total win of the bonus round to be a W-2G payout.

If all three of these conditions are present, I will never see the last spin of the bonus round. I will be logged out of the game instantly after the penultimate spin. I will then see a pop up form with the W-2G amount and a checkbox which I must check before I can dismiss the form. I can then reopen the same slot game by choosing it from the game list. However, the game will reopen displaying the reels that triggered the bonus round. That is usually a game where 3 or more special symbols landed on the reels. I will not see the actual last game spin which was the last spin of the bonus round. I just never appears on my screen. Nada. Zilch. If I have gametime turned on, it will not record the last spin of the bonus round. I never get to see the results of a spin that I paid for.

Thank you, I didn't realize you were talking about online gaming. My mind is always stuck in traditional B&M gaming. I was trying to picture a physical slot machine showing the jackpot before the game presentation concluded.

I had a more disturbing experience recently. I was playing a loss rebate at site where I am a relatively player. I was playing a slot at $100 per spin. The site actually has a tracker that tells me my W/L position for the loss rebate. I was behind $1300 when I triggered a bonus round. As the bonus round played, the tracker kept updating to reflect the cumulative win from the bonus round. The bonus round was over $5K and the tracker was showing me ahead over $4k for the promo. However, as soon as the game finished, the tracker went back to negative $1300 and my credits did not reflect the bonus win.

I freaked out an took some screen shots of the win that never got paid to me. Then I went to the History page. The win was recorded in the log. At this point it is still a mystery why I have not been paid. I go to the home screen to look for the Chat feature to contact support. At this point, a pop up window says that I need to upload documents to verify my identity before they will credit me for the win. This was not my first jackpot at the site, but it was my first one over $5000.

I went to the documents page and uploaded a JPG of the front and back of my drivers license and a selfie. These are both rejected. I try again and again these documents are rejected again. I then log into the site using my mobile device. This time the documents page starts an app that takes a video of my DL and a video of my face. These are accepted and I finally get paid my jackpot into my credit balance.

All is well in the end, but I am not happy about how it all went down. I also did not earn any loss rebate, but I am okay with that.

I am 99% certain the bonus rounds in B&M are predetermined from the moment you win the bonus.

Here is one experience at a B&M in Atlantic City.

I was playing large denom and won a bonus round.

I wanted to wait for my son to come watch the round play out. He took a long time perhaps over ten minutes while I didn't press the bonus play button (some trigger after 2 minutes but not this one)

Finally my son arrived. The bonus round had not yet passed $1200 when my host arrived to congratulate me on my large jackpot. It had already shown up on his computer. I ended with around twenty grand when it was over.

There is only one way he could have seen I won that large jackpot BEFORE I even passed the $1200 threshold. The final outcome after bonus spins is predetermined.

Quote: darkoz

I am 99% certain the bonus rounds in B&M are predetermined from the moment you win the bonus.

Here is one experience at a B&M in Atlantic City.

I was playing large denom and won a bonus round.

I wanted to wait for my son to come watch the round play out. He took a long time perhaps over ten minutes while I didn't press the bonus play button (some trigger after 2 minutes but not this one)

Finally my son arrived. The bonus round had not yet passed $1200 when my host arrived to congratulate me on my large jackpot. It had already shown up on his computer. I ended with around twenty grand when it was over.

There is only one way he could have seen I won that large jackpot BEFORE I even passed the $1200 threshold. The final outcome after bonus spins is predetermined.
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Most slot machines have a time in which they consider the game abandoned. I don't recall what times we used but it mat have been around 10 minutes. If the game is idle for X minutes and waiting on player input it is allowed to finish the game on its own. That is probably what happened.

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

I am 99% certain the bonus rounds in B&M are predetermined from the moment you win the bonus.

Here is one experience at a B&M in Atlantic City.

I was playing large denom and won a bonus round.

I wanted to wait for my son to come watch the round play out. He took a long time perhaps over ten minutes while I didn't press the bonus play button (some trigger after 2 minutes but not this one)

Finally my son arrived. The bonus round had not yet passed $1200 when my host arrived to congratulate me on my large jackpot. It had already shown up on his computer. I ended with around twenty grand when it was over.

There is only one way he could have seen I won that large jackpot BEFORE I even passed the $1200 threshold. The final outcome after bonus spins is predetermined.
link to original post

Most slot machines have a time in which they consider the game abandoned. I don't recall what times we used but it mat have been around 10 minutes. If the game is idle for X minutes and waiting on player input it is allowed to finish the game on its own. That is probably what happened.
link to original post

Interesting.

But I would still consider that predetermined lol.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

I am 99% certain the bonus rounds in B&M are predetermined from the moment you win the bonus.

Here is one experience at a B&M in Atlantic City.

I was playing large denom and won a bonus round.

I wanted to wait for my son to come watch the round play out. He took a long time perhaps over ten minutes while I didn't press the bonus play button (some trigger after 2 minutes but not this one)

Finally my son arrived. The bonus round had not yet passed $1200 when my host arrived to congratulate me on my large jackpot. It had already shown up on his computer. I ended with around twenty grand when it was over.

There is only one way he could have seen I won that large jackpot BEFORE I even passed the $1200 threshold. The final outcome after bonus spins is predetermined.
link to original post

Most slot machines have a time in which they consider the game abandoned. I don't recall what times we used but it mat have been around 10 minutes. If the game is idle for X minutes and waiting on player input it is allowed to finish the game on its own. That is probably what happened.
link to original post

Interesting.

But I would still consider that predetermined lol.
link to original post

I wouldn't. The ones that I have programmed just played out the bonus round as if you had hit the button but didn't bother showing the results.

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

I am 99% certain the bonus rounds in B&M are predetermined from the moment you win the bonus.

Here is one experience at a B&M in Atlantic City.

I was playing large denom and won a bonus round.

I wanted to wait for my son to come watch the round play out. He took a long time perhaps over ten minutes while I didn't press the bonus play button (some trigger after 2 minutes but not this one)

Finally my son arrived. The bonus round had not yet passed $1200 when my host arrived to congratulate me on my large jackpot. It had already shown up on his computer. I ended with around twenty grand when it was over.

There is only one way he could have seen I won that large jackpot BEFORE I even passed the $1200 threshold. The final outcome after bonus spins is predetermined.
link to original post

Most slot machines have a time in which they consider the game abandoned. I don't recall what times we used but it mat have been around 10 minutes. If the game is idle for X minutes and waiting on player input it is allowed to finish the game on its own. That is probably what happened.
link to original post

darkoz is reporting that the game did not self-initiate the bonus round. His account suggests that the game played out normally by all appearances. I have left video poker hands unplayed on an adjacent machine for very long periods of time. This prevents hustlers from cashing the game out while I am holding it with credits. Video poker games never play themselves out in my experience.

If you program the game to play out the bonus in the background, I would expect you do this to be able to log the result in case there is a power glitch or the casino needs to be evacuated. I also suppose you do not update the credit meter until you play out the bonus round on the display. This logging with the server would match up with the darkoz story. But if you do this when the only user input is the start button, why not do it for all bonus rounds where user decisions do not affect the outcome?

Many online slots that depend on user input to complete have warnings in the help pages. They often state that the game will auto-complete after 24 hours with no user action. It is extremely common to abandon an online slot game. Disconnects, distractions by the boss or by a phone call, the computer freeze ups, or the power goes out. When I log back into a site, I sometimes get a warning about any incomplete game. Most sites won't help you out with this.

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

Quote: DRich

Quote: darkoz

I am 99% certain the bonus rounds in B&M are predetermined from the moment you win the bonus.

Here is one experience at a B&M in Atlantic City.

I was playing large denom and won a bonus round.

I wanted to wait for my son to come watch the round play out. He took a long time perhaps over ten minutes while I didn't press the bonus play button (some trigger after 2 minutes but not this one)

Finally my son arrived. The bonus round had not yet passed $1200 when my host arrived to congratulate me on my large jackpot. It had already shown up on his computer. I ended with around twenty grand when it was over.

There is only one way he could have seen I won that large jackpot BEFORE I even passed the $1200 threshold. The final outcome after bonus spins is predetermined.
link to original post

Most slot machines have a time in which they consider the game abandoned. I don't recall what times we used but it mat have been around 10 minutes. If the game is idle for X minutes and waiting on player input it is allowed to finish the game on its own. That is probably what happened.
link to original post

Interesting.

But I would still consider that predetermined lol.
link to original post

I wouldn't. The ones that I have programmed just played out the bonus round as if you had hit the button but didn't bother showing the results.
link to original post

I looked it up. In Nevada the machine must wait a minimum pf two minutes before it can be considered abandoned. I am pretty sure the games I worked on waited 5 or 10 minutes before initiating the bonus.

NGCB Technical Standard 1,090

"The bonus or extended feature provides only one choice to the patron i.e., press button to
spin wheel. In this case, the device may auto initiate the bonus or extended feature after a time out
period of at least 2 minutes."

Quote: Mental

]darkoz is reporting that the game did not self-initiate the bonus round. His account suggests that the game played out normally by all appearances.

If it played out normally why would he consider it predetermined? My guess is that the bonus was auto-initiated after X minutes.

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental

]darkoz is reporting that the game did not self-initiate the bonus round. His account suggests that the game played out normally by all appearances.

If it played out normally why would he consider it predetermined? My guess is that the bonus was auto-initiated after X minutes.
link to original post

I hit the button after ten minutes approximately.

The spins went like normal. But within the first few spins my host came.

However the animation of each spin may have just been that. Animation with all the outcomes played out prior to my hitting the spin button due to the time out.

It did not autoplay.

There are some games that autoplay after two minutes including AC and NY. So that sounds like a standard.

Usually there is a message that tells you game bonus will initiate if not triggered within two minutes in my experience

Quote: darkoz

Usually there is a message that tells you game bonus will initiate if not triggered within two minutes in my experience

Yes, some jurisdictions require the message before it initiates.

Just curious, what do you think about the game Eagle Bucks where you can randomly get the 5th reel held in the bonus round? Is that predetermined the moment the bonus is triggered? Or is it not yet decided until you press the start feature button? I’ve personally had 5 held games in a row, twice. But also I’ve had over 10 games in a row without the held feature too. I’ve never gotten the retrigger during the bonus spins with the 5th reel held and must have had/seen over 500 held features on the game. However, retriggers without the 5th reel held are pretty common.

Quote: Roberto21

Just curious, what do you think about the game Eagle Bucks where you can randomly get the 5th reel held in the bonus round? Is that predetermined the moment the bonus is triggered? Or is it not yet decided until you press the start feature button?
I’ve personally had 5 held games in a row, twice. But also I’ve had over 10 games in a row without the held feature too. I’ve never gotten the retrigger during the bonus spins with the 5th reel held and must have had/seen over 500 held features on the game. However, retriggers without the 5th reel held are pretty common.
link to original post

Yup, similar to my question here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/38811-are-bonus-games-predetermined/#post912487

And no one has yet answered :(

Cowboy Slots attempted an answer


I'm reminded of that time somebody got 100+ free spins on a Planet Moolah machine to win over 1 million credits. Were all those extra bonus spins predetermined? Did somebody in the back room see him with the camera and think let's crank this bonus up!!!

Quote: DRich

Quote: Mental

]darkoz is reporting that the game did not self-initiate the bonus round. His account suggests that the game played out normally by all appearances.

If it played out normally why would he consider it predetermined? My guess is that the bonus was auto-initiated after X minutes.
link to original post

Perhaps it is semantics, but if someone shows up to congratulate me on a prize before I've been awarded it, I'd say the results were pre-determined.

Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: Roberto21

Just curious, what do you think about the game Eagle Bucks where you can randomly get the 5th reel held in the bonus round? Is that predetermined the moment the bonus is triggered? Or is it not yet decided until you press the start feature button?
I’ve personally had 5 held games in a row, twice. But also I’ve had over 10 games in a row without the held feature too. I’ve never gotten the retrigger during the bonus spins with the 5th reel held and must have had/seen over 500 held features on the game. However, retriggers without the 5th reel held are pretty common.
link to original post

Yup, similar to my question here:
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/38811-are-bonus-games-predetermined/#post912487

And no one has yet answered :(
link to original post

I'm not specifically familiar with that game, but many games with similar displays are totally meaningless. For example, there's a Kronos game (or something) where you fill his gauntlets with lightning bolts, from time to time. Superficially, one would think that this matters (basically, that the probability of a lightning bolt filling the last spot on a gauntlet is the same as on other spins, but is just a random thing that happens), but,, in reality, it's just visual and means exactly nothing.

Quote: Roberto21

Just curious, what do you think about the game Eagle Bucks where you can randomly get the 5th reel held in the bonus round? Is that predetermined the moment the bonus is triggered? Or is it not yet decided until you press the start feature button? I’ve personally had 5 held games in a row, twice. But also I’ve had over 10 games in a row without the held feature too. I’ve never gotten the retrigger during the bonus spins with the 5th reel held and must have had/seen over 500 held features on the game. However, retriggers without the 5th reel held are pretty common.
link to original post

I'm familiar with Eagle Bucks, but cannot speak conclusively whereof I don't know.

I've only had/participated in a few plays on Eagle Bucks games that were also must-hits. I don't recall whether or not Eagle Bucks has a Reel 5, 'Breakthrough,' feature when Reel 5 is fixed wilds, but I seem to think it doesn't. If an Eagle Bucks symbol cannot land on Reel 5 during Bonus Games, then it stands to reason that you would not be nearly as likely to get a Reel 5 held retrigger.

I haven't clocked symbol frequencies on Eagle Bucks, at all, much less for bonus games, specifically. One thing that's possible (though I don't know) is even Reels 1-4 have different frequencies depending on whether or not Reel 5 is held wilds. If this is a game that you play a good bit, then it wouldn't be too hard to track the number of Eagle Bucks, specifically, that appear on Reels 1-4 during both bonus game types. If that appears substantially different (average EB per spin), then that wouldn't prove (you'd need a huge sample size to PROVE), but would point to, Reels 1-4 being different, depending on the type of Free Games you get.