Ah, variance
I keep an accurate record of my wins / losses and I keep a running total; I've kept this record for twenty or so years.
Until recently it reflected what I suspected it would, a steady downward line on a graph.
It got to $68K lifetime loss but then something weird and unusual happened: I started winning more often.
I am now "Up" about 5 grand from where I was three years ago, and I play regularly, maybe two or three times a month.
No explanation other than positve variance.
Luck happens (but not often enough).
total lifetime winning or losing?Quote: MrVSomething odd has been happening over the past three or so years, and by jove I like it!
I keep an accurate record of my wins / losses and I keep a running total; I've kept this record for twenty or so years.
Until recently it reflected what I suspected it would, a steady downward line on a graph.
It got to $68K lifetime loss but then something weird and unusual happened: I started winning more often.
I am now "Up" about 5 grand from where I was three years ago, and I play regularly, maybe two or three times a month.
No explanation other than positve variance.
Luck happens (but not often enough).
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But to me that is a fair price to pay for the entertainment and stimulation I received from gambling.
It passes a cost/benefit analysis better than would have been the case had I spent the equivalent amount on an RV or some other tangible object.
I gave up tobacco and alcohol about the time I started gambling, so the money I spent on old vices now goes to the newer vice, casinos.
Whether my record keeping would withstand an IRS audit is a question I wonder about.
Basically every time I enter a casino to gamble I write down the money I am bringing in, and when I finish I write down the result; at the end of each trip I tally up the session results and come to and write down the final number for each trip.
I believe the numbers to be accurate, but would the gov't?
Quote: MrVNo, I don't factor for inflation.
Whether my record keeping would withstand an IRS audit is a question I wonder about.
Basically every time I enter a casino to gamble I write down the money I am bringing in, and when I finish I write down the result; at the end of each trip I tally up the session results and come to and write down the final number for each trip.
I believe the numbers to be accurate, but would the gov't?
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Let me ask you for the purposes of my own record keeping, how do you tend to do it? I do not know what games you play, but do you record rolls, hands, that kinda thing? Or literally just the monetary amounts for the games you play? Or just....I suppose what you just said, just what you bring in and what you bring out?
I don't track rolls or number of hands, nor do I write down the slot machine number.
But since I accurately record my daily session wins and losses I consider it reliable, albeit perhaps not as exacting as the IRS might prefer.
I recall one gambler recently said he was audited by the IRS and when he showed the auditor his records the auditor barely glanced at them, satisfied that he seemed to have some sort of coherent records.
I'm miffed at the IRS currently as my refund hasn't arrived yet, although my CPA timely filed.
IRS sent me a letter asking "Where are the W-2G's?"
I had given them to the CPA; when I asked him he said "Oh, I never send them when i e-file for clients."
I then faxed copies to the IRS but still nothing.
My only consolation is that when they do pay me they have to pay with interest: 4% for June, then 5% beginning July 1st: better than what banks are paying these days.
If you had multiple W2Gs from one casino you can simply total them as if they were paid simultaneously.
Non W2G wins would be reported separately.
That you got a letter from the IRS asking for W2Gs tells me that the online W2G forms were not filled out properly. Probably the casino info was omitted.
Regarding IRS late payment interest: if your return is in error there's no obligation for the IRS to pay interest.
From the IRS:
In general, we pay interest on the amount you overpay starting from whichever is later:
1. Tax return filing due date
2. Late filed tax return received date
3. Date we get your return in a format we can process or
4. Date the payment was made
Note #3. That's the killer. If they say it was your fault for not filing correctly the interest clock doesnt start.
You're a lawyer, right?
Bear in mind that to lose money overall in a year doesn't mean you don't owe taxes. If you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day. If you gamble all the time, it would be fishy that you don't have some wins overall on some days.Quote: MrVNo, I don't factor for inflation.
Whether my record keeping would withstand an IRS audit is a question I wonder about.
Basically every time I enter a casino to gamble I write down the money I am bringing in, and when I finish I write down the result; at the end of each trip I tally up the session results and come to and write down the final number for each trip.
I believe the numbers to be accurate, but would the gov't?
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The law the way it is written, and how people actually file their taxes is another. So different I can picture the IRS agent ignoring everything but the w2g's anyway even after showing them a diary that has you winning on certain days. Unless they 'want your ass' for some reason, then you better look out.
Did the filing try to say that the W2g's were on a day when you lost money overall? According to Michael Bluejay you can easily run into an agent who doesn't actually think that's the law.Quote: AlanMendelson(snip)If you efiled and included the casino ID info found on the W2Gs in your online documents you do not have to send the W2Gs.
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Good luck to ye who collect W2g's ...
Quote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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Are you saying that you need to pay taxes on one day's profit even if you have a net loss for the year?????
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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Are you saying that you need to pay taxes on one day's profit even if you have a net loss for the year?????
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I don't think so. But the wins will raise your AGI which will put you in a higher tax bracket. The losses don't offset the AGI.
I am pretty sure about this. Does anyone do it? Umm, those with W2g's, yeah.Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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Are you saying that you need to pay taxes on one day's profit even if you have a net loss for the year?????
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ps: if you itemize deductions you can wash out wins with losses as a matter of net sessions, you'll want to keep a diary
so I should have said if you take the standard deduction you get screwed
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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Are you saying that you need to pay taxes on one day's profit even if you have a net loss for the year?????
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lol Are you new?!?
Tell me, do you actually read the threads on here, or just your own posts?
Quote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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This is a very specific statement.
Was it made in error?
Quote: AlanMendelsonYou're a lawyer, right?
Retired, but yeah, for 40 years.
I always did our taxes and mailed them to the IRS until several years ago; since then I've hired a CPA to do them, and to e-file.
I itemized in 2021 in order to be able offset gambling income against losses; maybe they red-flagged it because I actually reported a profit from gambling?
I mean, who wins in casinos?
Someday I'll find my biggest wins were closest to the end of my session and everything was way over $10K.
Quote: MrVI play two games, craps and slots, and I write down the session win or loss amount for each game.
I don't track rolls or number of hands, nor do I write down the slot machine number.
But since I accurately record my daily session wins and losses I consider it reliable, albeit perhaps not as exacting as the IRS might prefer.
I recall one gambler recently said he was audited by the IRS and when he showed the auditor his records the auditor barely glanced at them, satisfied that he seemed to have some sort of coherent records.
I'm miffed at the IRS currently as my refund hasn't arrived yet, although my CPA timely filed.
IRS sent me a letter asking "Where are the W-2G's?"
I had given them to the CPA; when I asked him he said "Oh, I never send them when i e-file for clients."
I then faxed copies to the IRS but still nothing.
My only consolation is that when they do pay me they have to pay with interest: 4% for June, then 5% beginning July 1st: better than what banks are paying these days.
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wait.. why are you sending in w2-g's?
I've never sent in w2-g's and gotten my refund. (i always e-file fed returns)
yeah, it sucks that your increased agi because of w2-g's disqualifies you from govt programs because you're now over the limit.Quote: DRichQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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Are you saying that you need to pay taxes on one day's profit even if you have a net loss for the year?????
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I don't think so. But the wins will raise your AGI which will put you in a higher tax bracket. The losses don't offset the AGI.
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ie: free Medicaid (if under poverty level) and Obamacare subsidies (poverty to ~$90k agi)
thx!Quote: AlanMendelsonIf you efiled and included the casino ID info found on the W2Gs in your online documents you do not have to send the W2Gs.
If you had multiple W2Gs from one casino you can simply total them as if they were paid simultaneously.
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i had $50k in small w2'gs in 2021 and filed an extension because i got fed up entering each w2-g and all those boxes PER w2-g.
govt owes me a few hundred.
i'm ok about the pennies from the lost interest i could have made in a bank acct
Quote: 100xOddswait.. why are you sending in w2-g's? I've never sent in w2-g's and gotten my refund. (i always e-file fed returns)
Interesting.
Until several years ago I always did my own taxes and always mailed W2-G's with the returns because it flat out says to do so.
But now I understand that may not be required when one e-files?
Dunno for sure, but like you my CPA told me he doesn't send them with an e-filed return.
Which seems weird because on their face they say to send them to the IRS with the return, and the IRS sent me a letter saying basincally "Where are the W2-G's?"
Quote: MrVQuote: 100xOddswait.. why are you sending in w2-g's? I've never sent in w2-g's and gotten my refund. (i always e-file fed returns)
Interesting.
Until several years ago I always did my own taxes and always mailed W2-G's with the returns because it flat out says to do so.
But now I understand that may not be required when one e-files?
Dunno for sure, but like you my CPA told me he doesn't send them with an e-filed return.
Which seems weird because on their face they say to send them to the IRS with the return, and the IRS sent me a letter saying basincally "Where are the W2-G's?"
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As I said before your tax preparer screwed up.
The IRS gets copies of the W2Gs from the casino.
The IRS expects your tax return to list W2Gs equal to what the casinos reported.
If your tax preparer failed to include the W2G info from the casino (ID numbers, etc.) the amount is considered as other or non W2G wins.
I cant believe an accountant would screw this up.
As I said I always did our returns myself til recently, I always mailed them, and we never had any issues or questions.
I wonder because he didn't see my reply ... tho to be fair that can happen with a busy thread for various reasons.Quote: camaplQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: odiousgambitIf you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day.
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Are you saying that you need to pay taxes on one day's profit even if you have a net loss for the year?????
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lol Are you new?!?
Tell me, do you actually read the threads on here, or just your own posts?
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My reply is upthread, Alan
Let me put my question to you differently:
Are you saying that you do not combine your full year results to determine if you had a profit or a loss?
Quote: odiousgambitBear in mind that to lose money overall in a year doesn't mean you don't owe taxes. If you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day. If you gamble all the time, it would be fishy that you don't have some wins overall on some days.
The law the way it is written, and how people actually file their taxes is another. So different I can picture the IRS agent ignoring everything but the w2g's anyway even after showing them a diary that has you winning on certain days. Unless they 'want your ass' for some reason, then you better look out.
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I used to itemize deductions under the old rules, so back then most years I could correctly claim losses against any winning sessions. But I would have to go through that process: claim the win even if it was just one day I managed that, then offset it with losses in schedule A. This is a theoretical, you needed to keep a diary then for that, I will say no more on that.Quote: AlanMendelsonOdiousgambit I believe I saw your post.
Let me put my question to you differently:
Are you saying that you do not combine your full year results to determine if you had a profit or a loss?Quote: odiousgambitBear in mind that to lose money overall in a year doesn't mean you don't owe taxes. If you came out ahead in a 24 hour period, you owe taxes for that day. If you gamble all the time, it would be fishy that you don't have some wins overall on some days.
The law the way it is written, and how people actually file their taxes is another. So different I can picture the IRS agent ignoring everything but the w2g's anyway even after showing them a diary that has you winning on certain days. Unless they 'want your ass' for some reason, then you better look out.
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But these days my mortgage payments and medical bills etc are insufficient for me to itemize deductions. So, to do my taxes correctly, if I have a winning day I need to report that and I will be unable to deduct the losses I had on other days as long as I do the standard deduction.
Quote: odiousgambitBut these days my mortgage payments and medical bills etc are insufficient for me to itemize deductions. So, to do my taxes correctly, if I have a winning day I need to report that and I will be unable to deduct the losses I had on other days as long as I do the standard deduction.
I would think you could still itemize without having the expenses you noted; just list total winnings as income and offset against losses on schedule "A."
It would really piss me off if I have to pay taxes on all my hand pays without getting the opportunity to offset against losses.
You may not be that type of gambler who has over $12K or $24K in wins that need some losses tacked on though. Did the standard deduction go up with inflation? I meant $18K or $36K.
