heatmap
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March 1st, 2022 at 8:34:24 PM permalink
caution shaky camera entire video

100xOdds
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March 2nd, 2022 at 11:32:29 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

caution shaky camera entire video


link to original post

thx for confirmation that Class III slots cant be changed remotely by a slot supervisor in front of his computer.

it takes opening each slot individually and inserting a gaming chip to change payback %.

and wow.. 98% payback?!
which casinos have that?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
DRich
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March 2nd, 2022 at 11:55:58 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

thx for confirmation that Class III slots cant be changed remotely by a slot supervisor in front of his computer.

it takes opening each slot individually and inserting a gaming chip to change payback %.

and wow.. 98% payback?!
which casinos have that?



Some games can be changed remotely but it is a small percentage. They are called server based games.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Dieter
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March 2nd, 2022 at 1:34:22 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds


and wow.. 98% payback?!
which casinos have that?
link to original post



A former colleague told me that some casinos used to offer a handful of 99% machines (usually under a big sign that said 99% payback), likely as a marketing gimmick.

I fully expect that the 8 machines under the sign were set to 99%.
I fully expect that the rest of casino floor had placements of similar machines and themes with a markedly lower return.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DRich
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March 2nd, 2022 at 2:52:24 PM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: 100xOdds


and wow.. 98% payback?!
which casinos have that?
link to original post



A former colleague told me that some casinos used to offer a handful of 99% machines (usually under a big sign that said 99% payback), likely as a marketing gimmick.

I fully expect that the 8 machines under the sign were set to 99%.
I fully expect that the rest of casino floor had placements of similar machines and themes with a markedly lower return.
link to original post



The sign would say "Up tp 99% return". Meaning at least one of the machines was set to that but the others were not.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Dieter
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March 2nd, 2022 at 3:10:34 PM permalink
I can believe it was formatted something like:

up to99% Return!

I maintain that "upto" is a four letter word.
May the cards fall in your favor.
AxelWolf
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March 2nd, 2022 at 4:44:16 PM permalink
I'm not sure why they are using old style machines to make assumptions of what's going on in this day and age. It should be titled this is how older machines work.

Correct me if I am wrong, but even without a central server machines nowadays have various payback settings available that they can manually changie without messing with the chip?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
McSweeney
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March 2nd, 2022 at 4:59:29 PM permalink
I've seen some other videos on this guy's channel, and I wonder if he is using his alleged inside knowledge as a slot tech to spread some misinformation. He claims that slot machines need to periodically "balance themselves out" in order to meet their payback % requirements. He says that a strategy you can do is look for certain patterns and "hot" machines that are paying out a lot, because it's a sign that a machine hasn't paid out in a while and needs to pay out more than usual in order to comply with the payback % setting. This is not my understanding of how a slot machine works; my understanding is that there is no need for a machine to "balance itself out" because the law of probability will do that by itself.

Skip to 21:22 to see an example of him making these claims


It's very odd because in his videos, he simultaneously makes the claim that a slot machine uses a Random Number Generator and each spin is totally random, and yet it pays out more than usual on certain occasions to balance itself out. These two claims are irreconcilable.
heatmap
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March 2nd, 2022 at 5:02:34 PM permalink
I’ve heard of the periodic balancing but from what I understand the balancing process is also highly regulated and it happens once a year

I also am a person who thinks they are an over time kind of thing that balances itself out and do not understand what a balancing means

I also posted this video to get a discussion about what he’s saying going. He is leaving out a crap ton of info.

When people think rigging is happening I believe they think it’s something like a class 2 lottery system.

The most recent post about video poker in Washington the op has no clue they are playing a lottery machine.
100xOdds
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March 2nd, 2022 at 7:15:57 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

The most recent post about video poker in Washington the op has no clue they are playing a lottery machine.
link to original post

is it all slots in Washington state = class II or just vp?
(years ago, i played a little at a casino near Seattle airport.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Dieter
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March 2nd, 2022 at 7:50:31 PM permalink
https://www.wsgc.wa.gov/tribal-gaming/gaming-compacts

A very quick review suggests to me that most of the machines are Class II tribal lottery terminals.
May the cards fall in your favor.
heatmap
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March 2nd, 2022 at 8:17:55 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: heatmap

The most recent post about video poker in Washington the op has no clue they are playing a lottery machine.
link to original post

is it all slots in Washington state = class II or just vp?
(years ago, i played a little at a casino near Seattle airport.
link to original post



off of my crappy memory yes its all class 2 - but i could be wrong based tribal compacts are unique

but what i was really referring to was the confusion - usually the casinos (i dont know why but i think in washinton they do this) have a sign that tells the patrons if they are not playing real slot machines
Roberto21
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March 3rd, 2022 at 2:50:14 AM permalink
Anyone who says “look for patterns” when giving slot machine tips has automatically lost my attention. I would be wary of anything this guy has to say after hearing him say that.
DRich
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March 3rd, 2022 at 4:19:56 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: heatmap

The most recent post about video poker in Washington the op has no clue they are playing a lottery machine.
link to original post

is it all slots in Washington state = class II or just vp?
(years ago, i played a little at a casino near Seattle airport.
link to original post



All Class II machines.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
heatmap
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March 3rd, 2022 at 5:48:37 AM permalink
I mean i guess i want to know more about the aftermarket processes of these machines in this case
Dieter
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March 4th, 2022 at 1:36:27 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

I mean i guess i want to know more about the aftermarket processes of these machines in this case
link to original post



"aftermarket processes"?
I'm curious what that might mean.

I know that there are some specialty modules available that let you load the meter without cash and without a full TITO network in place, but that's about it.
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
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March 4th, 2022 at 3:15:38 AM permalink
If I play 500 spins and I'm getting back 66.7%, (I play $3 a spin on a dollar machine, three pay lines), I would have lost $500 on $1500 coin in. To balance it out, another 500 spins and I'll win $440 (with a 129.33% payback on the 2nd session) so my total would be -$60 on $3K coin in and the payout on the $3K coin in would be 98% ($3K - 2% = $2940).
You play an electronic table game like that you'll find yourself limited with win streaks that won't last long. Might do better at a real table where the microchips aren't gaming the system.

PS: I need some myth-busting, but I can't tell what disinformation is anymore.
1) PART 2! Slot Machine and Casino Myths CRACKED from a tech 🎰 Do slots pay better on weekends? 😱 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-HrJRynEs

When the IGT slot attendant takes way too long to show up to pay you.
Wheel of... Misfortune?? 🤔 An inside look at WOF - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxvwe_UuWdQ
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Mar 4, 2022
DRich
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March 4th, 2022 at 6:06:42 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange


1) PART 2! Slot Machine and Casino Myths CRACKED from a tech 🎰 Do slots pay better on weekends? 😱 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-HrJRynEs

When the IGT slot attendant takes way too long to show up to pay you.
Wheel of... Misfortune?? 🤔 An inside look at WOF - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxvwe_UuWdQ
link to original post



Most sites on the internet will only give you myths. If you have specific questions feel free to ask as I have programmed hundreds of slot machines.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
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March 4th, 2022 at 7:20:21 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: ChumpChange


1) PART 2! Slot Machine and Casino Myths CRACKED from a tech 🎰 Do slots pay better on weekends? 😱 - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-HrJRynEs

When the IGT slot attendant takes way too long to show up to pay you.
Wheel of... Misfortune?? 🤔 An inside look at WOF - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxvwe_UuWdQ
link to original post



Most sites on the internet will only give you myths. If you have specific questions feel free to ask as I have programmed hundreds of slot machines.
link to original post



Which ones can I win on?
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
DRich
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March 4th, 2022 at 7:22:06 AM permalink
Quote: billryan



Which ones can I win on?
link to original post



Always choose the one next to the one that you wanted to play.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
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March 4th, 2022 at 8:21:45 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: billryan



Which ones can I win on?
link to original post



Always choose the one next to the one that you wanted to play.
link to original post



Outstanding. Well worth the price of membership.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
smoothgrh
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March 4th, 2022 at 3:17:52 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I'm not sure why they are using old style machines to make assumptions of what's going on in this day and age. It should be titled this is how older machines work.

Correct me if I am wrong, but even without a central server machines nowadays have various payback settings available that they can manually changie without messing with the chip?
link to original post



I finally watched this video and yes, the example he used for his slot info was an IGT S2000 machine, which are about 20 years old and are popular among slot collectors.

Everything he says about his machine is correct, especially needing a #17 key chip to set payback percentages — this key is also used for Game Kings like mine from that era. He set his machine to 98% payback, which is what I would do with my machine.

He should have mentioned that modern, server-based games are adjustable remotely without using a key chip.
Wizard
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March 4th, 2022 at 5:45:10 PM permalink
Quote: McSweeney


link to original post



I wasn't going to bother to look into this, but I had lunch with somebody today who mentioned the Cowboy Slots channel, so I watched bits of this video.

While there are some true statements, it is mostly nonsense. He mainly preaches the incorrect myth that slots go through loose and tight cycles, in an effort to achieve a desired return percentage. For example, if a machine has paid too little in the past, it will go through a loose period to get back in balance.

Nonsense.

He mentions many times he was a slot technician and I don't deny that. However, that doesn't mean he knows anything about how the games work on a mathematical level. On the whole, his advice is almost worthless.

To be honest, it depresses me that videos like this get so many views and those by legitimate gambling writers get so few. Same could be said for gambling books.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
smoothgrh
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March 4th, 2022 at 6:48:40 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard



He mentions many times he was a slot technician and I don't deny that. However, that doesn't mean he knows anything about how the games work on a mathematical level. On the whole, his advice is almost worthless.

link to original post



A slot tech *should* know that (in video slots, at least) a machine has a reel test option for each payback percentage in which you can see how the symbols on each reel are laid out. The selection of each symbol is completely random. There's no balancing.

Edit: S2000 slots also have a reel strip test in which you can cycle through the virtual stops in numeric order.
Dieter
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March 4th, 2022 at 7:17:34 PM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

He should have mentioned that modern, server-based games are adjustable remotely without using a key chip.
link to original post



Assuming non-Class II:
Is the RNG that determines the game result in the server, or the machine on the floor?
(... and please feel invited to share any other answers to what you think my next six questions will be :) )
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
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March 4th, 2022 at 7:24:46 PM permalink
If you're the only player in a Class II casino, are the bingo card slots linked to a state server, or are you just playing against yourself? Seems bingo card slots have players playing against each other via the server.
heatmap
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March 4th, 2022 at 7:30:50 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

If you're the only player in a Class II casino, are the bingo card slots linked to a state server, or are you just playing against yourself? Seems bingo card slots have players playing against each other via the server.
link to original post



they can be linked to anywhere in the world and can be apparently playing those people if there are no people in the casino you are at... from what i think i understand about it
McSweeney
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March 4th, 2022 at 7:57:24 PM permalink
Another extremely suspect tip he gives in that video is at 17:45: "Always play the max bet!". His reasoning is that you have the same odds of winning no matter if you're playing 1 credit or 2 credits, and if you hit on 1 credit, you could have won twice as much if you played 2 credits. So he is basically advising people to lose twice as much money to house edge in the long run. Obviously it is true that you should play higher DENOMINATION machines, which tend to give better payback %, and he is completely aware of this since he mentions this earlier in the video. But he still says you should play the max bet WITHIN THE SAME DENOMINATION without any justification other than "you can win more money". Of course it IS smart to play the max bet if you get some kind of extra value from doing so, like if eligibility for a Grand Jackpot requires it, but he doesn't specify this at all.
ChumpChange
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March 4th, 2022 at 8:11:20 PM permalink
Most slot machines have a higher top prize at the highest denom. For instance, a machine might have $250 top for 1 coin, $500 for 2 coin, and $1,000 for 3 coins.
You'll get an extra $250 top prize for betting the max and it lowers the house edge slightly.
Dieter
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March 4th, 2022 at 10:43:47 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

If you're the only player in a Class II casino, are the bingo card slots linked to a state server, or are you just playing against yourself? Seems bingo card slots have players playing against each other via the server.
link to original post



Been there, done that.
In the case that quorum for a game is not met, bets are generally refunded to the credit meter and an error message is displayed.
If quorum is met, but no player gets a winning card, consolation prizes are usually awarded.
This is grossly simplified, doesn't describe long-ball games, and you should read and understand all the rules pages for any bingo slot you're playing.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Mukke
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March 6th, 2022 at 5:05:29 PM permalink
I understand how this makes sense in a true class 3 game in Vegas, where the real hits are random.

But does this truth also apply to a state like WA, where non-bingo machines are determined through the TLS (Tribal Lottery System) which is essentially scratch tickets from a predefined (very large) pool.

Ie. is does max bet on a machine that has a different pay table for max bet compared to non-max bet actually mean/guarantee higher RTP, or is the relatively lower pay on the top prize offset by a difference in probabilities for the other pays?
heatmap
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March 6th, 2022 at 5:45:06 PM permalink
Quote: Mukke

I understand how this makes sense in a true class 3 game in Vegas, where the real hits are random.

But does this truth also apply to a state like WA, where non-bingo machines are determined through the TLS (Tribal Lottery System) which is essentially scratch tickets from a predefined (very large) pool.

Ie. is does max bet on a machine that has a different pay table for max bet compared to non-max bet actually mean/guarantee higher RTP, or is the relatively lower pay on the top prize offset by a difference in probabilities for the other pays?
link to original post



in my mind the back end is functioning exactly like this machine



i assure you there are slot machines based on pull tabs and its very odd how not a single person mentions it tbh
billryan
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March 7th, 2022 at 6:36:57 AM permalink
I don't understand the attraction of pull tabs but I'm shocked how many people pull into the Legion for a beer or two and end up going thru a couple dozen pull tabs. What is great is they win $10 and simply buy 10 more tabs. I'm waiting for someone to hit the $500 top prize and trade it in for tickets.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
linksjunkie
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heatmap
March 7th, 2022 at 9:14:10 AM permalink
In Ohio we had “raffle” based slot machines in lodges (Elks, Eagles, etc) up until the end of last year.

Basically they represent a giant bag of pull tabs.

The rep told us our 4 machines pulled from a virtual bag of one million tickets. There were two top prizes of $1199.

When you put your money in the machine you had to play completely thru it before you could cash out. Example - if you put $20 in then you had to play $20 worth of pulls before you could cash out.

Pay back on the machines was consistent with pull tabs at approximately 80%
Last edited by: linksjunkie on Mar 7, 2022
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March 7th, 2022 at 9:18:08 AM permalink
The state has now changed regulations on how these machines have to work.

In April the new machines will come out. These will be bingo based machines. I don’t have much info on these yet other than you can put your money in and cash out whenever you want versus having to play thru your buy in once before cashing out.
Son you ain’t paying attention I’m cutting you but you ain’t bleeding - Foghorn Leghorn
heatmap
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March 7th, 2022 at 2:25:59 PM permalink
Quote: linksjunkie

The state has now changed regulations on how these machines have to work.

In April the new machines will come out. These will be bingo based machines. I don’t have much info on these yet other than you can put your money in and cash out whenever you want versus having to play thru your buy in once before cashing out.
link to original post



ohio - wowowow neato legal definition of cheating

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3772.01

Quote:

(I) "Cheat" means to alter the result of a casino game, the element of chance, the operation of a machine used in a casino game, or the method of selection of criteria that determines (a) the result of the casino game, (b) the amount or frequency of payment in a casino game, (c) the value of a wagering instrument, or (d) the value of a wagering credit. "Cheat" does not include an individual who, without the assistance of another individual or without the use of a physical aid or device of any kind, uses the individual's own ability to keep track of the value of cards played and uses predictions formed as a result of the tracking information in the individual's playing and betting strategy.



edit

is this the raffle machines you are talking about ?

Parashara
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May 14th, 2022 at 2:49:14 PM permalink
I was wondering in the slot machine multi denomination games the reel / random number generated is the same but the pay changes with the denomination ???

Like If the user selects 1Cent 88 cents bet

if a win is generated then win multiplied by 88 cents

Like If the user selects 5Cent $4.40 bet

if a win is generated then win multiplied by $4.40

Or does it have different algorithms for each denomination ie that is in order to take some cut and give back the player some amount?
DRich
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May 14th, 2022 at 5:20:46 PM permalink
Quote: Parashara

I was wondering in the slot machine multi denomination games the reel / random number generated is the same but the pay changes with the denomination ???

Like If the user selects 1Cent 88 cents bet

if a win is generated then win multiplied by 88 cents

Like If the user selects 5Cent $4.40 bet

if a win is generated then win multiplied by $4.40

Or does it have different algorithms for each denomination ie that is in order to take some cut and give back the player some amount?
link to original post



It depends on the machine. Some machines have different paybacks depending on the denom and bet size.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
tuttigym
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May 15th, 2022 at 9:05:50 AM permalink
Quote: Parashara

I was wondering in the slot machine multi denomination games the reel / random number generated is the same but the pay changes with the denomination ???

Like If the user selects 1Cent 88 cents bet

if a win is generated then win multiplied by 88 cents

Like If the user selects 5Cent $4.40 bet

if a win is generated then win multiplied by $4.40

Or does it have different algorithms for each denomination ie that is in order to take some cut and give back the player some amount?


I am aware that "jackpot size" payout is dependent on wager size, however, are the machines, in general, aware of bet size when it comes to hitting any bonus? Suppose I play a machine that actually allows me to play one line for a penny a spin. I play 75 spins for 75 cents then I change to a 30 line spins (machine max of lines). Will I be more likely to hit a bonus sooner or will the machine revert to a pre-programed play?

tuttigym
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