Slots questions
Is the EPROM chip in a slot machine set for same percentage return regardless of the wager? Whether someone hits .50 cent button, $1.00, $1.50, $3.00 or $5….the hold percentage for that machine is the same? This would also be the same regardless if you change the denom. from 1 cent to 5 cent or higher on the same machine? (ie, lightning, lock link, etc).
I’ve heard casinos order their penny slots at a certain percentage (say 90% return), their $1 slots at a higher return (say 93%)…so on and so forth.
In Nevada, the return rate for the Strip and Downtown Vegas are broken down by area. Since Nevada considers any machine that accepts money thru a slot as a slot machine….does this mean their overall return includes all slots (traditional, ie, wheel,of fortune) and video poker slots? If true…if the overall return is 88%, does this not assume that the traditional slots are set at a far lower return since video poker can return up to 100%?
Quote: TDVegasJust a few questions for those who might be in the know.
Is the EPROM chip in a slot machine set for same percentage return regardless of the wager? Whether someone hits .50 cent button, $1.00, $1.50, $3.00 or $5….the hold percentage for that machine is the same? This would also be the same regardless if you change the denom. from 1 cent to 5 cent or higher on the same machine? (ie, lightning, lock link, etc).
Sometimes yes, often no. For one thing, consider progressive machines that require a certain minimum bet amount (or a Max Bet) for the progressive to be paid: Even if the probabilities were exactly the same (such as they would be on a VP Royal Flush Progressive) the return percentage of the various bets is automatically not the same unless the progressive is at its base amount.*
*It's possible that there are exceptions to this, but generally the above statement is correct.
Quote:I’ve heard casinos order their penny slots at a certain percentage (say 90% return), their $1 slots at a higher return (say 93%)…so on and so forth.
Different machines have different possible return-to-player (House Edge) settings that a casino can have on them. Average return percentages, by denomination, are available for most commercial casino jurisdictions, or can be discovered using simple math when looking at the Gaming Commission's Annual Report, depending on how much information is in there.
However, that doesn't necessarily have any predictive value in the context of one specific machine. For one machine, the only thing that you can truly immediately know is that it is set at, or above, the jurisdictional minimum return. In Nevada, that would be 75%, but as a practical matter, slot machines are almost never set that low and almost all do not even have a setting for that.
Quote:In Nevada, the return rate for the Strip and Downtown Vegas are broken down by area. Since Nevada considers any machine that accepts money thru a slot as a slot machine….does this mean their overall return includes all slots (traditional, ie, wheel,of fortune) and video poker slots? If true…if the overall return is 88%, does this not assume that the traditional slots are set at a far lower return since video poker can return up to 100%?
I would suggest that is the case, although, there aren't very many $0.01/denomination Video Poker machines. At least, not when comparing to $0.01 denomination other slot machines. I would tend to think that Video Poker returns boost the returns for $0.25 denomination machines the most.
Quote: TDVegas
Is the EPROM chip in a slot machine set for same percentage return regardless of the wager? Whether someone hits .50 cent button, $1.00, $1.50, $3.00 or $5….the hold percentage for that machine is the same?
My understanding is yes.
Quote:This would also be the same regardless if you change the denom. from 1 cent to 5 cent or higher on the same machine?
My understanding is no.
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Multi-denomination video poker can have different paytables at different denominations; I see no reason why reel/line slots need not do the same.
What exactly is it calculating?
Doesn’t the return pretty much depend on the reel layout and how often specific symbols show up and how much it pays out is pre set?
Is the chip just there for comparison?
If I had to guess, I would guess that the Las Vegas casinos don’t want to compete with each other and would rather keep the customers clueless as to whose Buffalo slot is set to 92% payback and whose is set to 85% payback….but concede I don’t know why.
Isn’t competition a good thing? Tell me the slot hold of the machine I’m playing.
Quote: TDVegasWhy isn’t the hold or payback percentage listed on a traditional slot machine (Buffalo, wheel of fortune) or shown on the machine as it is on video poker machines?
If I had to guess, I would guess that the Las Vegas casinos don’t want to compete with each other and would rather keep the customers clueless as to whose Buffalo slot is set to 92% payback and whose is set to 85% payback….but concede I don’t know why.
Isn’t competition a good thing? Tell me the slot hold of the machine I’m playing.
I don't know where Video Poker machines do that, though there are probably some machines/jurisdictions that do. It's not, "Listed," so much as Video Poker has paytables that can quickly be slapped into a calculator, such as at WoO. Similarly, Video Keno, depending on the game.
I wish this information was made known, but they wouldn't want players to go pawing around looking for the best machines and refusing to play anything but the highest returning slots. Some players would conclude, "Wow, 10% of every bet is a lot!" It would end up being a race to the top, or casinos would kind of quietly de facto collude to make the returns all right about the same. Alternatively, manufacturers could start producing machines with only one possible return setting, probably low, in response.
Quote: Mission146I wish this information was made known, but they wouldn't want players to go pawing around looking for the best machines and refusing to play anything but the highest returning slots.
My guess is they don’t want to compete against one another for offering the best deal…the cornerstone of market capitalism.
The typical consumer searches for the best deal. The best price for the same product. In the casino biz…that mentality goes out the door as the casinos say “we don’t want you knowing where the best deal is”.
Quote: TDVegasMy guess is they don’t want to compete against one another for offering the best deal…the cornerstone of market capitalism.
The typical consumer searches for the best deal. The best price for the same product. In the casino biz…that mentality goes out the door as the casinos say “we don’t want you knowing where the best deal is”.
I agree with this 100%. However, online gaming is very often an exception to this rule of casinos.
I'm not quite ready to declare online gambling absolutely the best (from a player perspective) way to gamble, but I'm getting darn close. In fact, I probably would do that (at least, for -EV players), except it becomes a, "Consider the source," thing.
It's getting close to being almost undeniable, though. Almost.
Quote: heatmapWhy do we even need a chip...
What exactly is it calculating?
Doesn’t the return pretty much depend on the reel layout and how often specific symbols show up and how much it pays out is pre set?
Is the chip just there for comparison?
I expect that the different reel layouts are stored on "the chip".
I expect that the different paytables and line maps are stored on the chip.
It's different if we're discussing a mechanical reel game, but these are likely video reels, or possibly computerized virtual reels.
