acura1234567890
acura1234567890
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June 27th, 2021 at 9:20:16 AM permalink
Is there a way to determine the number of virtual reels of a slot machine if you observe the number of time each symbol appears on each line? Without having the par sheet of the game.

Thanks in advance!
rsactuary
rsactuary
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June 27th, 2021 at 9:33:23 AM permalink
Quote: acura1234567890

Is there a way to determine the number of virtual reels of a slot machine if you observe the number of time each symbol appears on each line? Without having the par sheet of the game.

Thanks in advance!



By observation, I think there are only two things you can do:

1. observe the reels spinning and create a reel mapping. The trick to this is that for virtual slots, at some point they cut the rotation to the desire point based on where the reel is ultimately going to stop. Aristocrat does that right at the start of the spin, but other companies might do something different. So you need to understand where that happens.

2. observe the outcomes which will only get you the percentage of time that a symbol shows up on the paylines. However, calculating the return from that will be impossible because you really need the ordering of the wheels to do that.
heatmap
heatmap
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June 27th, 2021 at 9:56:38 AM permalink
Quote: acura1234567890

Is there a way to determine the number of virtual reels of a slot machine if you observe the number of time each symbol appears on each line? Without having the par sheet of the game.

Thanks in advance!



yes

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/34639-mapping-the-symbols-on-each-reel-of-a-video-slot/#post770530
acura1234567890
acura1234567890
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June 29th, 2021 at 8:13:49 AM permalink
I was referring to a three reel machine. If I observe the outcomes on the reels how do I map this to the virtual reels? I don't have access to any par tables to figure out how many virtual stops they are? How do I figure this out?


Thanks
ThatDonGuy
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June 29th, 2021 at 8:50:24 AM permalink
Quote: acura1234567890

I was referring to a three reel machine. If I observe the outcomes on the reels how do I map this to the virtual reels? I don't have access to any par tables to figure out how many virtual stops they are? How do I figure this out?


There's no 100% guaranteed way to do it. The best you can do is, keep playing it (and playing it, and playing it...), and note the positions of each reel. Each reel is supposed to be independent.

One problem with this is, if there are two (or more) locations on a reel with the same three symbols (for example, blank - Red 7 - blank), then there is no way to tell which one is which. Then again, as far as the bet is concerned, this is the same as if only one of the locations existed, and it came up twice as often.

Another problem is, you don't know how many symbols are on each reel. For that matter, you don't know if each reel has the same number of symbols as the others.
DRich
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June 29th, 2021 at 9:45:53 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy



Another problem is, you don't know how many symbols are on each reel. For that matter, you don't know if each reel has the same number of symbols as the others.



If he is referring to a mechanical three reel machine it is probably safe to assume 11 symbols per reel and 11 blanks per reel. That is what most machines are.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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June 29th, 2021 at 10:37:26 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

If he is referring to a mechanical three reel machine it is probably safe to assume 11 symbols per reel and 11 blanks per reel. That is what most machines are.



Given that info as well as knowing a range of possible payback percentages canít we figure out a relative number of virtual stops?
acura1234567890
acura1234567890
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June 30th, 2021 at 7:23:42 PM permalink
I'm referring to a three reel machine. How do you determine the virtual reels?
ThatDonGuy
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July 1st, 2021 at 11:04:01 AM permalink
Quote: acura1234567890

I'm referring to a three reel machine. How do you determine the virtual reels?


Without a PAR sheet, you can't - at least, not with any degree of certainty. You can observe the reels over, say, thousands of spins, and can estimate from that, but that's as close as you are going to get.

You will probably have at least one case where a set of three consecutive symbols appears more than once on the physical reels - for example, blank, red 7, blank may appear in two different places. You probably will not be able to distinguish between the two when they appear (unless you take a video which is fast enough to record all of the symbols on each reel...and hope security doesn't catch you)...but you don't really have to, at least for probability purposes; you can treat both as a single set that comes up more often. (For example, if one blank, red 7, blank has 5 virtual stops and another has 10, this is the same as if blank, red 7, blank only occurred once, but has 15 virtual stops.)
acura1234567890
acura1234567890
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July 3rd, 2021 at 11:10:46 AM permalink
Ok so could you give me a hypothetical example of a three reel machine which you observed the outcomes and walk me through the analysis of how you estimate the virtual reel set?

Thank you so much!
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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July 3rd, 2021 at 12:36:44 PM permalink
Quote: acura1234567890

Ok so could you give me a hypothetical example of a three reel machine which you observed the outcomes and walk me through the analysis of how you estimate the virtual reel set?



No, I can't, because I have never done it. Besides - unless you count something like thousands of spins, any numbers you get will not be very meaningful.
charliepatrick
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July 3rd, 2021 at 2:56:30 PM permalink
Quote: acura1234567890

Ok so could you give me a hypothetical example of a three reel machine which you observed the outcomes and walk me through the analysis of how you estimate the virtual reel set?

Thank you so much!

Yes - see this page ( https://www.knowyourslots.com/understanding-virtual-reel-mapping/ ) and its video. It describes how a virtual reel of 64 is mapped to the 22 possible positions on the real reel. Unfortunately you don't know what the hidden reel looks like, so can only have an educated guess based on how often you see various stopping places on the real reel. For instance on average you might observe that about 1 in 16 spins the first reel was blank with a fiery 7 below and a double bar above, whilst that fiery 7 only appeared 1 in 64 spins (you would need to know it was the one between the DBar and TBar rather than SBar and TBar), and guess the lowest common denominator was 64.
acura1234567890
acura1234567890
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July 5th, 2021 at 8:18:08 AM permalink
Ok let me rephrase my question. where could one get a par sheet for a Ultimate Sevens games to determine the number of virtual reels.

This is the game I'm referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkbzNEf6pm4

Thank you so much!
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