'Beating Slots' Interview

Quote: AxelWolf

ROVING GANGS OF SLOT HUSTLERS, ARE YOU SERIOUS WITH THAT BS?

at my local casino (biggest in the state), there's a group of 4 that seem to be there 10+ hrs/day, 7days/week.

i go play poker at 8am because of poker promos and leave around 6pm random days in a week, almost every week.
i see at least one of them at 8am and all of them at 6pm everytime.

How can they make a living for 4 of them, especially given the competition?
ie: me. Every couple of hours or so i leave the poker table for 15 min and check all the quick vulterable machines.

and there's at least 2 individuals working alone that are also there for hrs.
plus an elderly Asian woman that camps at THE prime spot of 2 banks of vulterable slots which are next to each other.


T.Elliot:
as for Must Hit progressives, forget about it.
people see $480 on a $500 Must Hit or slightly above $9800 on a $10k Must Hit and they play it for hrs. (Their wife/husband brings them food/water/money once in a while.)
ie: They take it early.

although i havent seen that lately since the restriction of no food in the casino because Covid.

Quote: 100xOdds

at my local casino (biggest in the state), there's a group of 4 that seem to be there 10+ hrs/day, 7days/week.

i go play poker at 8am because of poker promos and leave around 6pm random days in a week, almost every week.
i see at least one of them at 8am and all of them at 6pm everytime.

How can they make a living for 4 of them, especially given the competition?
ie: me. Every couple of hours or so i leave the poker table for 15 min and check all the quick vulterable machines.

and there's at least 2 individuals working alone that are also there for hrs.
plus an elderly Asian woman that camps at THE prime spot of 2 vulterable banks, which are next to each other.

as for Must Hit progressives, forget about it.
people see $480 on a $500 Must Hit or slightly above $9800 on a $10k Must Hit and they play it for hrs. (Their wife/husband brings them food/water/money once in a while.)
ie: They take it early.

although i havent seen that lately since the restriction of no food in the casino because Covid.

In Atlantic City the competition for the must hits is so bad the teams take the machines at 9600. And now I have even seen them taking it closer to 9500 in order to beat out the other teams

And these are teams. They sit together and watch the machine when someone has to leave, taking over for them.

There are obviously teams that do this stuff, but to say "roving gangs" sounds ominous and it is fear mongering.

the word syndicates also sounds as if its something of a criminal nature.

I'm confused, Are they syndicats or roving gangs?

OMG, theres both syndicates and roving gangs descending on the casinos.

Teliot, I just heard from one of your future sources who even he himself said he makes more money writing about this stuff than he does playing. No disrespect to Mission, I like him, he is a very intelligent individual and a fun guy to hang out with.

I have it on good authority that your judgment regarding AP sources is checkered at best.

Quote: AxelWolf

There are obviously teams that do this stuff, but to say "roving gangs" sounds ominous and it is fear mongering.

the word syndicates also sounds as if its something of a criminal nature.

I'm confused, Are they syndicats or roving gangs?

OMG, theres both syndicates and roving gangs descending on the casinos.

Teliot, I just heard from one of your future sources who even he himself said he makes more money writing about this stuff than he does playing. No disrespect to Mission, I like him, he is a very intelligent individual and a fun guy to hang out with.

I have it on good authority that your judgment regarding AP sources is checkered at best.

So it's not the facts that you are disputing, it's the language. Got it.

Quote: teliot

So it's not the facts that you are disputing, it's the language. Got it.

I think the language you used belies the facts.

It's common enough. That's why the Mafia doesn't call themselves a syndicate, they call themselves a family.

Why don't you say families descend on slot machines?

Because you are trying to make the language create distinctions that belie the facts

I don't see these "gangs" as being anymore than teams often comprised of family members and not a syndicate

Axel is a One Man Gang.

Quote: AxelWolf

I just want to know if i'm going to be "angry" after watching this?

I don't think you will.

Quote: AxelWolf

ROVING GANGS OF SLOT HUSTLERS, ARE YOU SERIOUS WITH THAT BS?

You'll note that I disagreed with this. Eliot is a table games specialist; it's a fair question. Might have thought it was the same concept as table games teams.

In terms of machines, sometimes teams will work together on linked progressives, as you know. But, there aren't roving teams doing vulture plays.

I thought "crew" was the preferred term these days (although I doubt that Merriam-Webster is keeping track).

In the book Advanced Tactics in Casino Advantage Play, Abram Alexander writes, in the section "Rivals,"

"I have been told that, in days past, there existed an “us vs. them” mentality among advantage players, leading them to cooperate with each other, because they perceived the casinos as a common enemy. In such a climate, rivals would be easy to deal with, because they would almost certainly be open to cooperation and sharing. I can say that this is not the case anymore. There is no honor or agreement to be had among rivals anymore, and the competition can be quite fierce. Each team usually plays according to its own rules and interests; there are no industry standards for how to deal with other advantage players. Some rivalries are so bitter that they involve players ratting each other out to surveillance or the pit.... This trend has resulted in the formation of larger, more organized teams than in times past. Some would say it is a natural evolution of the trade. A larger team can more effectively shut out smaller teams or individual players, by having more people to occupy space in casinos, and more rapidly scout out games for obliteration. A larger team has a more extensive network to draw on for talent and information, and can more easily stay one step ahead of the competition ... If this section has made the advantage play industry seem unfriendly, adversarial, and unpleasant, then I have been successful in conveying how things work. It most definitely is unfriendly, adversarial, and unpleasant, at least between rivals. "

To me, this sounds like gangs. This is not my only source. Do you recall "Stalker" and "LVHCM"? How about Russo? How about what RXGamble says about your fellow APs? What about the Hong Kong horse racing syndicate? Do you know about loss rebate syndicates? Of course, I also have my personal experiences as well as information from working within the casino industry about the nature and organization of some of these gangs and syndicates.

Calling "BS" on what I said about gangs and syndicates casts doubt on my credibility that is unfounded. The organized nature of team play and the territorial and aggressive nature of these teams towards each other is the very definition of gang activity.