Bally PAR sheets discussed in Slots/Gambling at Wizard of Vegas

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October 29th, 2019 at 8:37:50 PM permalink

SM777

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October 30th, 2019 at 5:47:38 AM permalink

Weird flex, but okay.

100xOdds

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October 30th, 2019 at 10:15:23 AM permalink

thx for the par sheets.
how did you find them?

Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)

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October 30th, 2019 at 10:37:56 AM permalink

Quote: SM777
Weird flex, but okay.

I have to have some kind of skill if not making money at the casino

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October 30th, 2019 at 10:42:31 AM permalink

Quote: 100xOdds
thx for the par sheets.
how did you find them?

Archived websites which are usually initiated by humans... this one was the result of looking up all of the websites bally used to own before they transitioned or were bought out by their parent companies. Ballet has had like 6 different websites throughout their lifetime and I went through all of them til I found these. I was mainly looking for old handbooks of the shufflers and just so happened to find these

SM777

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October 30th, 2019 at 11:25:58 AM permalink

What is the benefit of looking at the PAR sheet?

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October 30th, 2019 at 11:37:39 AM permalink

Quote: SM777
What is the benefit of looking at the PAR sheet?

I don�t even know I just know some people like to look at them I wish I knew

bobbartop

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October 30th, 2019 at 12:49:48 PM permalink

Quote: SM777
What is the benefit of looking at the PAR sheet?

With video poker and keno, you've got the paytable right there in front of you telling you everything you need to know. With slots, a par sheet will also tell you what makes it tick. There are often different versions of slots and you can't tell the difference just by looking at its pretty face. Looking at the par sheet, you are looking into its soul.

'Emergencies' have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded.

AxelWolf

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October 30th, 2019 at 6:19:36 PM permalink

Quote: SM777
What is the benefit of looking at the PAR sheet?

I'm confused with this question. I can't imagine you can't see the value Ipart sheets..

It's very valuable depending on the situation and what you do with that information.

Probably no value to a regular gambler.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

p13man

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November 3rd, 2019 at 6:52:32 PM permalink

That's some good sleuthing!!

Thanks for this. I had found only a handful before this. The most valuable bit of a PAR sheet - to my mind - is the volatility index. This is going to give you the RTP range at 10,000 spins, but you can use this data to find the RTP range at 100 spins - a more typical scenario. Once you've calc'd that, you'll understand why certain machines are feast or famine, whilst others trickle out crumbs.

Good work!

Zcore13

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November 3rd, 2019 at 8:35:40 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
I'm confused with this question. I can't imagine you can't see the value Ipart sheets..

It's very valuable depending on the situation and what you do with that information.

Probably no value to a regular gambler.

Not much value on today's video reels and maybe a little value if someone wants to do some work mapping regular reels and doesn't get the boot for it.. Every machine has 4-8 par sheets. The casino chooses which one they want to use. Nothing on the machine will tell you what it's programmed to. Could be a 93% payback, could be an 85% payback.

ZCore13

I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

AxelWolf

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November 3rd, 2019 at 8:48:24 PM permalink

Quote: Zcore13
Not much value on today's video reels and maybe a little value if someone wants to do some work mapping regular reels and doesn't get the boot for it.. Every machine has 4-8 par sheets. The casino chooses which one they want to use. Nothing on the machine will tell you what it's programmed to. Could be a 93% payback, could be an 85% payback.

ZCore13

Why do casinos boot you for that? I have my answer im just curious their reasoning.

perhaps not ON the machines.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

Zcore13

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November 3rd, 2019 at 8:54:08 PM permalink

Quote: AxelWolf
Why do casinos boot you for that? I have my answer im just curious their reasoning.

perhaps not ON the machines.

I can just imagine some might not have any clue what was going on. There's definitely no rule against it, but if it got someone's attention, I could see it happening.

ZCore13

I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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November 3rd, 2019 at 10:13:33 PM permalink

Quote: Zcore13
Not much value on today's video reels and maybe a little value if someone wants to do some work mapping regular reels and doesn't get the boot for it.. Every machine has 4-8 par sheets. The casino chooses which one they want to use. Nothing on the machine will tell you what it's programmed to. Could be a 93% payback, could be an 85% payback.

ZCore13

There was at least 3 of each of the IGT PAR sheets i found so that makes sense

AxelWolf

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November 3rd, 2019 at 10:29:19 PM permalink

Quote: Zcore13
I can just imagine some might not have any clue what was going on. There's definitely no rule against it, but if it got someone's attention, I could see it happening.

ZCore13

I have seen people tracking video keno and VP. It's obvious they have no clue how the machines work and they have some crazy theories. No amount of personal tracking with a pen and paper will help them, I imagine they do the same on slots. Casinos would be better off just ignoring anyone tracking most stuff. If someone was serious about tracking and they were actually on to something and worried about getting the boot they would probably just use a hidden camera or their phone in secret video recording mode.

♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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