slot jackpot not mine but IRS is after me for it
Quote: terrysm74062186I was just hit by the IRS for money for a 15000 jackpot that was hit in 2017 on my players card. This is not my jackpot and suspect someone used my card. Yes in the past I have left a card in a machine a few times. I suspect someone used the card and hit the jackpot and the attendent simply used the card to generate a w2g. Imagine the person did this had quite the laugh but this is getting to be a pain in the ass. The Casino does not get id at the time the jackpot is hit and simply takes the id information off the players card account to issue the w29. Help.
This can't possibly be true. Two pieces of ID are needed... so even if you say they used the player's card, a second one would be needed and the discrepancy in names would be noted.
Quote: rsactuaryThis can't possibly be true. Two pieces of ID are needed... so even if you say they used the player's card, a second one would be needed and the discrepancy in names would be noted.
It shouldn't have happened, but I wouldn't say it's impossible. The Sands in AC once paid my friend whose only id was a library card with no picture on it. It could have been anyone's.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyBrand new account, first post on joining day starts a new thread with a story that doesn’t seem possible and lacks specifics. Just sayin’ .
I suppose we could go on discussing poli-ticks.
At least the grasshopper invasion is based on some facts.Quote: billryanI suppose we could go on discussing poli-ticks.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyBrand new account, first post on joining day starts a new thread with a story that doesn’t seem possible and lacks specifics. Just sayin’ .
What would you rather his first post be about?
Quote: terrysm74062186Well the reason I am posting this issue is I do not know how to deal with this. Perhaps this will help. I have gone back to the Casino and requested a copy of the w2g that was signed at the time the jackpot was paid. They said this was two years ago and they do not have a surveillance tape nor have they been able to locate the signed copy. I play at this Casino regularly and know they never ask for an id at least from me when I hit a jackpot. They simply take the players card and generate a w2g from information given to them at the time the account was created. Thanks,
If therw is no signed copy maybe you should go to the IRS and demand evidence of the win as submitted by the casino.
This whole thing does sound fishy to me. A casino that doesnt verify ID and doesn't properly keep records?
Quote: terrysm74062186Well the reason I am posting this issue is I do not know how to deal with this. Perhaps this will help. I have gone back to the Casino and requested a copy of the w2g that was signed at the time the jackpot was paid. They said this was two years ago and they do not have a surveillance tape nor have they been able to locate the signed copy. I play at this Casino regularly and know they never ask for an id at least from me when I hit a jackpot. They simply take the players card and generate a w2g from information given to them at the time the account was created. Thanks,
So at this casino , I can play slots, and any time I hit a taxable jackpot I can simply hand them some random players card I find laying around for them to generate the W2 with , and they will ask for no other proof at all that the card is mine ?
Definitely a dangerous place to accidentally leave your players card laying around.
Quote: DRichJust tell the IRS it is not yours and it may be a mistake by the casino or fraud on someones part. Also tell them the casino can not provide proof. The IRS will drop it or make the casino come up with proof.
Shouldn't the casino receive some sort of fine for something like this?
What is a casino required to maintain in order to provide proof it was you who hit the jackpot?
You Ken Try to contact the casino in person and explain the bogus situation.Quote: terrysm74062186I was just hit by the IRS for money for a 15000 jackpot that was hit in 2017 on my players card. This is not my jackpot and suspect someone used my card. Yes in the past I have left a card in a machine a few times. I suspect someone used the card and hit the jackpot and the attendent simply used the card to generate a w2g. Imagine the person did this had quite the laugh but this is getting to be a pain in the ass. The Casino does not get id at the time the jackpot is hit and simply takes the id information off the players card account to issue the w29. Help.
They may not ask for ID if they know the person, or its someone who has been hitting jackpots that day.
Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyBrand new account, first post on joining day starts a new thread with a story that doesn’t seem possible and lacks specifics. Just sayin’ .
Are we going to just accuse every new member of being someone else until the end of time? I understand why it's difficult to have a presumption of innocence anymore, but I don't think we need to make a leap to a presumption of absolute guilt, in all cases.
Besides that, the story is totally plausible.
Quote: darkozIf therw is no signed copy maybe you should go to the IRS and demand evidence of the win as submitted by the casino.
This. There should be instructions on your letter or a number you can call to dispute it. Just ask them for proof. Hell, who knows, maybe you were drunk, hit the jackpot, lost the money and forgot about it.
I'm not saying that, for all I know, you don't even drink. I'm just saying they can either produce a copy with your signature or they can't. The only area where you might find some trouble is if someone forged your signature, then you've got something of a hill to climb.
Quote: MaxPenShouldn't the casino receive some sort of fine for something like this?
What is a casino required to maintain in order to provide proof it was you who hit the jackpot?
https://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw2g
In part:
Quote:A payee of gambling winnings meeting the reporting thresholds for bingo, keno, and slot machines, and a payee of gambling winnings meeting the withholding thresholds from horse racing, dog racing, jai alai, sweepstakes, wagering pools, lotteries, and certain other wagering transactions, but not from a state-conducted lottery, must present two forms of identification, one of which must include the payee's photo.
This section on backup withholding suggests that the taxes should have automatically been withheld if no SSN (or taxpayer identification number) was provided:
Quote:Backup Withholding
You may be required to withhold 24% of gambling winnings (including winnings from bingo, keno, slot machines, and poker tournaments) for federal income tax. This is referred to as backup withholding. You should backup withhold if:
The winner doesn't furnish a correct taxpayer identification number (TIN)
Of course, my experience has been the casino takes your ID, but does not take your physical SS card again if you have already hit a jackpot that year. They just get the number. Further, neither of the two forms of identification necessarily has to be the social security card as long as the proper SS number is provided, I THINK.
Actually, that's correct, the SS card itself does not have to be one of the two forms:
Quote:As verification of the name, address, and TIN of the person receiving the winnings, enter the identification numbers from two forms of identification. Acceptable forms of identification include a driver's license, passport, social security card, military identification card, tribal member identification card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe, voter registration card, or completed and unmodified Form W-9. Enter the number and the state or jurisdiction. In some instances, the number may be the same number as in box 9.
One of the two forms of identification that the recipient presents must include the recipient's photograph. Gaming establishments owned or licensed by a tribal government may waive the photo ID requirement for payees who are members of that federally recognized Indian tribe and present a tribal member identification card issued by the same tribal government.
I can't find any guidance on how long the casino must keep the records, but they are required to submit any W2-G records to the IRS, so the IRS should be able to produce the information. The casino is also required to provide the player with a copy, but they would likely say that they did that, despite the fact that they no longer have a copy.
In any case, the IRS should have a copy of the form, so just demand to see it.
Quote: Mission146Are we going to just accuse every new member of being someone else until the end of time? I understand why it's difficult to have a presumption of innocence anymore, but I don't think we need to make a leap to a presumption of absolute guilt, in all cases.
Besides that, the story is totally plausible.
The garbage that was played here with whatever “her” name is makes others suspicious anymore. Rightfully so. Not saying anyone could have done anything different with her, but everyone knows she will be back to mock the system again.
And this story while plausible is the type she is famous for. Sadly every new member will be looked at with suspicion because of her tricks.
Quote: BozThe garbage that was played here with whatever “her” name is makes others suspicious anymore. Rightfully so. Not saying anyone could have done anything different with her, but everyone knows she will be back to mock the system again.
Rightfully so, except for those who might legitimately be new members. I personally don't see anything even remotely implausible about the OP. Unusual? Sure, unusual, but that's about it.
Quote:And this story while plausible is the type she is famous for. Sadly every new member will be looked at with suspicion because of her tricks.
I'd argue that the Forum was better when people were not looked at with suspicion. If a certain someone gets to have her fun for a few posts longer because of it, so be it. Besides, it's not like the person in question would be compelled to leave as a result of being accused, so the only possible outcome is that it puts off legitimately new members who might choose to post here for days, weeks, months or years to come.
The nature of message boards, in general, is such that they are on a decline. That's mostly because of things like Twitter and Facebook (probably more the latter) where these sorts of questions can be (often incorrectly) answered. I really see no reason to hasten the decline of message boards with these sorts of accusations.
Quote: Mission146Are we going to just accuse every new member of being someone else until the end of time? I understand why it's difficult to have a presumption of innocence anymore, but I don't think we need to make a leap to a presumption of absolute guilt, in all cases.
Besides that, the story is totally plausible.
Have you personally ever encountered a casino that issued W2s to customers without asking for any identification?
If this story were true, and this casino really issues W2s based on nothing more than the players card that the customer hands them , then it would’ve caused enormous problems long before this persons story.
Does a players card even contain all the information necessary to fill out a W2?
Quote: michael99000Have you personally ever encountered a casino that issued W2s to customers without asking for any identification?
No, but this isn't the first time I've heard such a claim being made. Legally, they are required to obtain two forms of identification as illuminated in my previous post. One of which is required to be photo identification.
The closest thing I can say is that one casino paid out a jackpot after obtaining only ONE form of identification from me because I'd already hit a jackpot earlier that year. They said it was unnecessary to give them my social security card again. Technically, they should have demanded two forms of identification anyway.
Quote:If this story were true, and this casino really issues W2s based on nothing more than the players card that the customer hands them , then it would’ve caused enormous problems long before this persons story.
Does a players card even contain all the information necessary to fill out a W2?
According to the story, the card was likely left in a machine. That's not much different, but it's a little different. For all we know, there was some kind of bribe to the slot attendant involved, anything could have happened. There would be no dealt royals if improbable things didn't occasionally happen.
The player's card only contains the player's card number and the person's name, but then the card number can be put into the computer to reveal other information about the player. I wouldn't THINK they would store social security numbers in the player's card system, and a jackpot can be paid without the social security number being provided, but then the federal withholding is required to be withheld from the jackpot, I believe.
Like I said before, one casino already had my social security number (or could verify it) because of a jackpot hit earlier that year. It may be the same in this case. As long as you have the person's social security number, then you would have access to all of the information needed to fill out the form...especially if the person had already hit a jackpot that year and the casino kept the W2-G...they'd already have all the relevant information.
Again, I'm not suggesting this is something that happens all the time, or even regularly, just that it's plausible. Even if you doubt it, there's no harm in giving the appropriate advice to someone should such a thing happen to someone in the future and that someone is searching for answers.
First educate myself as best I can about everything: tax disputes, tax frauds, identify theft, et cetera. File a police report simply describing the situation. Talk to a lawyer about a lawsuit, but only paying them on contingency if I can get damages for fraud / identify theft. Show up at the casino with everything from the IRS and other documents showing that I am a victim of fraud committed by someone at the casino and asking for every piece of evidence they have. We already know what their answers are, but I'm asking a lot of questions about how they could possibly allow this to happen, as well as writing down the names of everyone I talk to, along with exactly what they say. Provide everything I have to the IRS, attorney general, every state legislature, gaming commission, local law enforcement, and every media outlet in the area.
The reason this seems like such an unlikely scenario is because of how clearly outside of both protocol and the law it is, as well as how easy it should be to gather very strong evidence to escalate to very high levels, very quickly. There have been other people here who have made up dumb stories for attention, which makes other improbable stories here suspicious.
Quote: TomG
The reason this seems like such an unlikely scenario is because of how clearly outside of both protocol and the law it is, as well as how easy it should be to gather very strong evidence to escalate to very high levels, very quickly. There have been other people here who have made up dumb stories for attention, which makes other improbable stories here suspicious.
I could see where perhaps all of that stuff in the paragraph above (omitted for length) could happen, but the first step, in my opinion, is just to request that the IRS provide a copy of the W2-G that was submitted to them by the casino. If the IRS cannot provide same, then I don't see how this would be actionable by the IRS and they should drop it. If they refuse, then the OP may want to consult with a tax attorney or look up how to file an appeal to the IRS.
Quote: TomG
The reason this seems like such an unlikely scenario is because of how clearly outside of both protocol and the law it is, as well as how easy it should be to gather very strong evidence to escalate to very high levels, very quickly. There have been other people here who have made up dumb stories for attention, which makes other improbable stories here suspicious.
That was my first thoughts as well.
The casinos I frequent are very strict and by the book when it comes to their routine for doing everything. From changing cards, to chip fills, to markers , CTRs , etc so it’s hard to believe a casino could be this sloppy or rogue, especially when it comes to their dealings with an outside establishment (the IRS). But I guess it might happen.
I wonder what the penalty as far as the law goes , is for submitting phony ID at a taxable event? It might even be construed as identity theft. And is it really worth that risk , especially when you’ve just won a jackpot that was probably in the $20k range ?
If that fails, take advantage of being 70 and contact one of the dozens of organizations that look out for us Senior Citizens. In some jurisdictions, defrauding a Senior is a serious crime.
If someone is using your I'd for casino jackpots, what other mischief might they be doing?
Only the ones that come up with some suspicious stuff. This is the type of thing that's right in the wheelhouse of the Nathan shenanigans. It could be someone making it seem as if it's Nathan, could be legit, who knows, time will tell, but this is very fishy. There have been plenty of new members that have not been accused. Why is that? Well its obvious they are not Nathan and CO.Quote: Mission146Are we going to just accuse every new member of being someone else until the end of time?
If they are not the person, they won't even understand whats being referenced.
And if the MODS think their little IP checks are going to ferret out all the Nathan BS, you are sadly mistaking. SHE WILL BE COACHED HOW TO FOOL YOU GUYS (even if I have to coach her myself, just to prove a point (-; ).
p.s I forgot you were no longer a MOD. You will always be a greener to me.
Quote: Mission146I could see where perhaps all of that stuff in the paragraph above (omitted for length) could happen, but the first step, in my opinion, is just to request that the IRS provide a copy of the W2-G that was submitted to them by the casino. If the IRS cannot provide same, then I don't see how this would be actionable by the IRS and they should drop it. If they refuse, then the OP may want to consult with a tax attorney or look up how to file an appeal to the IRS.
Having the IRS drop the liability is only part of the issue. The biggest issue is that someone tried to stick a $5,000 tax bill onto someone else. And the casino was complicit in that. That's the exact sort of violation that the courts and lawyers (and internet chatrooms) love to get their hands on.
In my case, I was certainly asked to show I.D. before being paid. But I can believe that casino employees are capable of being lazy/negligent, especially if the payout was not unusually high.
I would have to agree that of all the Jackpot payments that have ever been made there has to have been Mistakes made.Quote: gordonm888I also had a W2-G issued by a casino and when I returned within 15 months and asked for a copy, they told me that they did not retain a copy. So, I don't have a problem with that part of the story.
In my case, I was certainly asked to show I.D. before being paid. But I can believe that casino employees are capable of being lazy/negligent, especially if the payout was not unusually high.
Quote: AxelWolfYou Ken Try to contact the casino in person and explain the bogus situation.
They may not ask for ID if they know the person, or its someone who has been hitting jackpots that day.
I was about to type the exact same two word phrase when I figured I should read the entire thread before posting....!
As I did for many of Nathan's posts under her dozens of sock accounts, I would participate in the discussion in the hypothetical stories she made up if it interested me, even knowing it was just Nathan garbage that started the thread.
So I will do the same here.....
For us to remotely believe this happened just show a picture of how the IRS "hit" you for a $15,000 jackpot! Of course cover your name address, etc....
Quite the lucky coincidence that you were out of town with credit card receipts that day as an alibi........
And you join a forum, post this to strangers, BEFORE you ask the IRS for a lick of evidence this happened? Really????
You don't use an accountant (possibly...) whose advice you would seek?
Having read the rules posted downthread, I find it incredulous that a big jackpot, $15,000, is paid off without even remotely following the rules.
So prove me wrong. Just post a photo of the IRS letter with redactions of course.... I won't be holding my breath.....
Quote: AxelWolfI would have to agree that of all the Jackpot payments that have ever been made there has to have been Mistakes made.
That’s true. But to hand over $15,000 in cash to a customer , and overlook one of the most important steps in the procedure , seems shady.
When the slot attendant goes to the cage to get the 15k cash, I’m sure another casino employee , most likely a manager back there, oversees the process. You think that person also just forgot to ask where the ID was ? And then filled out the w2 forms using just a player’s card and still didn’t realize that the other, and way more important form, of ID was missing.
What would have happened if the players cards first name wasn’t even the same sex as the customer. Wonder if the whole thing still would’ve gone as it supposedly did.
Quote: AxelWolfI would have to agree that of all the Jackpot payments that have ever been made there has to have been Mistakes made.
Not sure why I received this snarky response from Professor AxelWolf. In the case of my W2-G payout, it was a payout in a WSOP circuit event, and anyone can literally look up the tournament on-line and see how much I won (or look up my name in various on-line poker databases.) So, there is absolutely a public record of the names of the players who won and the amount that they were paid. I am only claiming that the casino that hosted the WSOP tournament did not retain a copy of the W2-G form that was filed with the IRS and could not supply me a copy when I requested it. They told me they were not required by the IRS to retain record copies of a W2-G - merely to file a copy with the IRS. I thought that was relevant information to this discussion.
Quote: gordonm888Not sure why I received this snarky response from Professor AxelWolf.
He thinks you are Nathan
Casino employees are generally not the brightest. It surely doesn’t help there is a huge amount of “this is what we’ve always done // this is what my boss tells me to do” sentiment. I’ve had w2g’s with the wrong SSN on it. Oh, off by a number or two? NOPE. It was someone else’s SSN. Another time they wrote my players card number for the SSN. How they did that when the number was like 11 digits long, I don’t know. Someone I was playing with got a w2g with someone else’s name on it (and no, he wasn’t using someone else’s card, he was using his own).
Quote: TomGHaving the IRS drop the liability is only part of the issue. The biggest issue is that someone tried to stick a $5,000 tax bill onto someone else. And the casino was complicit in that. That's the exact sort of violation that the courts and lawyers (and internet chatrooms) love to get their hands on.
True, but you’re going to need the W2-G before you can even hope to collect any other meaningful evidence in that vein, especially since any surveillance footage will be long gone.
Quote: SOOPOOI was about to type the exact same two word phrase when I figured I should read the entire thread before posting....!
As I did for many of Nathan's posts under her dozens of sock accounts, I would participate in the discussion in the hypothetical stories she made up if it interested me, even knowing it was just Nathan garbage that started the thread.
So I will do the same here.....
For us to remotely believe this happened just show a picture of how the IRS "hit" you for a $15,000 jackpot! Of course cover your name address, etc....
Quite the lucky coincidence that you were out of town with credit card receipts that day as an alibi........
And you join a forum, post this to strangers, BEFORE you ask the IRS for a lick of evidence this happened? Really????
You don't use an accountant (possibly...) whose advice you would seek?
Having read the rules posted downthread, I find it incredulous that a big jackpot, $15,000, is paid off without even remotely following the rules.
So prove me wrong. Just post a photo of the IRS letter with redactions of course.... I won't be holding my breath.....
Imagine the audacity of asking a gambling forum a question that relates to gambling? Like, who does that? Everyone knows gambling forums are for politics threads.
Why should anyone be demanded to show a picture? From what I can tell, people have already answered and are willing to discuss the issue based on the assumption that it’s true, so what’s the problem with that?
I would think I’m better than fair at researching gambling-related laws by now, and I couldn’t find anything to indicate how long a casino must keep W2-G information, so it’s perfectly reasonable someone could have already attempted to search this issue and did not know how to proceed.
Anyway, should this or anything like this happen to anyone else, there are now quality answers in this thread as to what steps one could take. That’s a good thing, regardless of the validity of the opening post.
Quote: michael99000That’s true. But to hand over $15,000 in cash to a customer , and overlook one of the most important steps in the procedure , seems shady.
When the slot attendant goes to the cage to get the 15k cash, I’m sure another casino employee , most likely a manager back there, oversees the process. You think that person also just forgot to ask where the ID was ? And then filled out the w2 forms using just a player’s card and still didn’t realize that the other, and way more important form, of ID was missing.
What would have happened if the players cards first name wasn’t even the same sex as the customer. Wonder if the whole thing still would’ve gone as it supposedly did.
It does seem shady, I agree. Of all of the proper procedures in the history of all employees in all occupations, I’d find it hard to believe this is the first time proper legal or company procedure was violated. Exception to these sites, but other than that, I’ve never worked at a single place in my life in which laws, codes and/or company procedures were not willfully violated at some point. Sheesh.
The casino would already have a copy of the ID, in all likelihood, given the fact the person is a players club cardholder. Hypothetical manager in the back asks if the employee verified ID, employee says yes, there you go.
WTF!!!!... Why was that snarky? I was agreeing with you that mistakes are made in the casino because casino employees are capable of being lazy/negligent, and much more.Quote: gordonm888Not sure why I received this snarky response from Professor AxelWolf. In the case of my W2-G payout, it was a payout in a WSOP circuit event, and anyone can literally look up the tournament on-line and see how much I won (or look up my name in various on-line poker databases.) So, there is absolutely a public record of the names of the players who won and the amount that they were paid. I am only claiming that the casino that hosted the WSOP tournament did not retain a copy of the W2-G form that was filed with the IRS and could not supply me a copy when I requested it. They told me they were not required by the IRS to retain record copies of a W2-G - merely to file a copy with the IRS. I thought that was relevant information to this discussion.
There was absolutely ZERO attempt from me to be snarky, joking or negative in any way shape or form, it was the opposite of that. Perhaps it wasn't well written by me, but even then, I can't see how one could think there was snark in that directed towards you.
Paranoid much????
Quote: Mission146It does seem shady, I agree. Of all of the proper procedures in the history of all employees in all occupations, I’d find it hard to believe this is the first time proper legal or company procedure was violated. Exception to these sites, but other than that, I’ve never worked at a single place in my life in which laws, codes and/or company procedures were not willfully violated at some point. Sheesh.
The casino would already have a copy of the ID, in all likelihood, given the fact the person is a players club cardholder. Hypothetical manager in the back asks if the employee verified ID, employee says yes, there you go.
Possibly that could occur.
I guess I just always assumed that manager in the cage had to see the ID himself, and maybe even use it to fill out the forms. I go mostly to Borgata and Sands , and in my experience they don’t do anything involving $15k cash without following the procedures very carefully.
