Auto-spin feature
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Unfortunately there was a guy clearly intent on collecting it so i was forced to watch
He was busy on his phone while the machine was on auto-spin. Having played this machine before i was stumped. I didnt know they had that feature but i was determined to know how to enable it. This guy was just letting the machine spin after spin continuosly while he waited for the must-hit and concentrated on other things
So i studied and went thru all the menus and game rules of the identical machine next to him(with a much lower meter unfortunately) but much to my disappointment i could find no instructions on how to enable the auto-spin
I finally resigned myself to asking how to do it from this guy. I prefer not milking information from other pros. I dont like it when people do it to me but i was totally stumped
As i turned to ask him i suddenly recognized how he had enabled the auto-spin feature
He had wedged a filled water bottle between the line button and wager button so that the wager button was permanently depressed
Sometimes the simplest methods for enabling a feature are literally the last thing you would imagine
Now I think I remember what they said was it having something to do with in case there was a malfunction, LMAO. I always thought they were angry, or told to be angry, because if people were doing this, they would never be tempted to change their bet once they set it. It's not like people think or are attempting to destroy a slot machine, they're not hitting it, they're just trying to cut out the BS. Slot machines break all the time from use, truthfully it cannot really be proven, that a toothpick or something else used to Jam a button really was nothing else but the last straw to break a camel's back. Just because somebody's trying to take down a major or minor Progressive must-hit, the casino is all of a sudden going to get all anal retentive because you're actually playing to win but they set up to be won. If I had to choose between my fingers my wrist my arms and my shoulders, I'll choose to break something made in China.Quote: KevinAAThat should be a bannable offense. If you want to gamble quickly, then use the skip-stop feature (i.e. hit the button over and over nonstop). Those buttons were meant to be pressed, not smashed into place. It damages the electrical contacts, and then the button won't work when PRESSED.
Lots of different machines & machine settings.Quote: darkozHe was busy on his phone while the machine was on auto-spin. Having played this machine before i was stumped. I didnt know they had that feature but i was determined to know how to enable it.
(1) Press & release the Spin button for every bet (The "bet X" buttons only change the bet amount").
(2) Press & release either the Spin button or bet button or max bet button
(3) Press & hold button. As long as it stays depressed (and nothing unusual like a bonus round happens), the machine will auto-bet.
(4) Press button multiple times quickly to (a) stop reels (b) accelerate the payout counter
Note: Sometimes you can do this with the spin button, but NOT with the "bet X" buttons (or vice-versa).
(5) Press & release button once, and machine will auto-spin (until something unusual like a bonus round or "cashout" button press happens). Some keno games are set this way.
Note: Sometimes a machine unexpectedly does this, and I have to hit cash-out as fast as I can...before my money disappears.
How many options are available depends on the game and manufacturer.
In the configuration screens, a slot tech may have access to some casino-configurable options.
Whether or not the General Manager, VP Slots, Slot Supervisors, etc... allow certain options to be set... again varies.
Policy may depend on the player (For example, one Harrahs casino "does not allow machines to be held for X hrs"; however, I have heard that 3rd level Seven Stars can hold machines. Not the lowly 1st and 2nd level Seven Stars, just 3rd-7th level & I assume...Chairman).
WARNING: Since APs have been asking for certain settings changes from 2011-2018, some casinos have "gotten wise".
Last few years, I personally no longer ask for settings changes (with rare exceptions, maybe once a year)...too much potential danger (Lose a casino, versus lose a play).
With some games, if I am unable to stop the reels as I spin, or auto-spin (press & hold)...I simply don't play (e.g. 4-hr play vs. 20-hr play).
There are some +EV games where even the fastest setting is so slow (48+ hrs), I don't play them until they are ++EV quite a bit.
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If you have a machine of type 3 (press & hold spin/bet/max-bet button...and the machine auto-bets),
there is no need to "jam anything" (e.g. nickel between button & side).
Depending on the age/tightness of the button/spring you can simply place something on the button to hold it down
(a) on a light button, two cell phones or a heavy glass ash tray
(b) on a medium button, 2 heavy glass ash trays or a small water bottle
(c) on a heavy button, a medium-heavy water bottle or a full drink in a heavy glass
Quote: KevinAAThat should be a bannable offense. If you want to gamble quickly, then use the skip-stop feature (i.e. hit the button over and over nonstop). Those buttons were meant to be pressed, not smashed into place. It damages the electrical contacts, and then the button won't work when PRESSED.
Yeah, I wish. That doesn't work on some 50% of must-hits that I have ever encountered.
Quote: BTLWIWhy would a casino want you to make -EV bets as quickly as possible? Best to ban you instead.
I have no idea why the casinos, or maybe it's the manufacturers, sometimes do not enable machines to be, "Slam-Stopped." I could definitely ensure anyone that it is not only AP's who find machines that cannot be slam-stopped frustrating.
Even in terms of ploppies playing the machines, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that no symbols match on Reels 1 & 2 and there are no Free Games symbols on Reel 3, or whatever the case. Many of the must-hit games are such that the target free games symbol must initiate from Reel 1 and extend to at least Reel 3, so when that is the case, if nothing matches on Reels 1&2 the spin is effectively over. It's a loss 100% of the time.
I've seen other non must-hit non-progressive machines that also don't enable slam-stopping and I can't understand the reason for it. I would be Extremely surprised if a casino were to put deterring AP's as a higher priority than not irritating and aggravating casual players as well, but you never know. I do know that, in many cases, casual players have as much of a distaste for machines upon which they are unable to slam stop as APs.
Maybe they just want to extend the useful life of the buttons, who knows? I'd rather have someone playing 1,200 SPH as opposed to 600 SPH, but that's me. Can't imagine replacing the buttons costs that much.
I dont know what they are thinking. Is it possible there is some patents or extra costs having stop reels and turbo?Quote: Mission146I have no idea why the casinos, or maybe it's the manufacturers, sometimes do not enable machines to be, "Slam-Stopped." I could definitely ensure anyone that it is not only AP's who find machines that cannot be slam-stopped frustrating.
Even in terms of ploppies playing the machines, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that no symbols match on Reels 1 & 2 and there are no Free Games symbols on Reel 3, or whatever the case. Many of the must-hit games are such that the target free games symbol must initiate from Reel 1 and extend to at least Reel 3, so when that is the case, if nothing matches on Reels 1&2 the spin is effectively over. It's a loss 100% of the time.
I've seen other non must-hit non-progressive machines that also don't enable slam-stopping and I can't understand the reason for it. I would be Extremely surprised if a casino were to put deterring AP's as a higher priority than not irritating and aggravating casual players as well, but you never know. I do know that, in many cases, casual players have as much of a distaste for machines upon which they are unable to slam stop as APs.
Maybe they just want to extend the useful life of the buttons, who knows? I'd rather have someone playing 1,200 SPH as opposed to 600 SPH, but that's me. Can't imagine replacing the buttons costs that much.
Just a thought.
People tend to remember when they lose too fast on a machine. I have a feeling no ploppy ever assumed they lost fast just because they were playing faster than normal. If they can convince a player their money lasted longer on one machine over another, that person may keep seeking out that machine.
P.S. I would never want to jam anything into a button or something like that, just for convenience. Most normal players don't do that. It brings more attention to that person. If your an AP that's the last thing you need.
Quote: AxelWolfI dont know what they are thinking. Is it possible there is some patents or extra costs having stop reels and turbo?Quote: Mission146I have no idea why the casinos, or maybe it's the manufacturers, sometimes do not enable machines to be, "Slam-Stopped." I could definitely ensure anyone that it is not only AP's who find machines that cannot be slam-stopped frustrating.
Even in terms of ploppies playing the machines, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that no symbols match on Reels 1 & 2 and there are no Free Games symbols on Reel 3, or whatever the case. Many of the must-hit games are such that the target free games symbol must initiate from Reel 1 and extend to at least Reel 3, so when that is the case, if nothing matches on Reels 1&2 the spin is effectively over. It's a loss 100% of the time.
I've seen other non must-hit non-progressive machines that also don't enable slam-stopping and I can't understand the reason for it. I would be Extremely surprised if a casino were to put deterring AP's as a higher priority than not irritating and aggravating casual players as well, but you never know. I do know that, in many cases, casual players have as much of a distaste for machines upon which they are unable to slam stop as APs.
Maybe they just want to extend the useful life of the buttons, who knows? I'd rather have someone playing 1,200 SPH as opposed to 600 SPH, but that's me. Can't imagine replacing the buttons costs that much.
Just a thought.
People tend to remember when they lose too fast on a machine. I have a feeling no ploppy ever assumed they lost fast just because they were playing faster than normal. If they can convince a player their money lasted longer on one machine over another, that person may keep seeking out that machine.
P.S. I would never want to jam anything into a button or something like that, just for convenience. Most normal players don't do that. It brings more attention to that person. If your an AP that's the last thing you need.
I agree but i don't see anyone in atlantic city being banned because they were making a must hit spin over n over
Quote: AxelWolfI dont know what they are thinking. Is it possible there is some patents or extra costs having stop reels and turbo?
Just a thought.
People tend to remember when they lose too fast on a machine. I have a feeling no ploppy ever assumed they lost fast just because they were playing faster than normal. If they can convince a player their money lasted longer on one machine over another, that person may keep seeking out that machine.
P.S. I would never want to jam anything into a button or something like that, just for convenience. Most normal players don't do that. It brings more attention to that person. If your an AP that's the last thing you need.
I don't know, but I tend to doubt it only because slam-stopping is able to be done on machines from different manufacturers, unless one leased from another the right to be able to use that mechanism, who knows? It's definitely not exclusive to one manufacturer, though, and the ability to slam stop is present on older (but not REALLY) old machines as well as new. However, some relatively new machines do not enable a player to do this.
I think your time-on-device per $$$ in is probably the best argument in favor of not allowing slam stopping. That actually makes a ton of sense. You could easily incorporate a greater House Edge if you're going to force people to spin slowly. Imagining $1/spin, you'll lose equally at 1200 HPH on a 92% machine than you will at 800 SPH on an 88% machine, it's $96/hour either way.
I think many manufacturers are emphasizing time on device, anyway. You see that a lot with these high holding new 3D tower slots with all kinds of ridiculous mechanisms that take a year and a half and free games that take three decades to return, maybe, 20x your bet. All the while people are getting absolutely plowed on the reels aside from the Free Games.
(Response to P.S.): Never. I just sit there and spin it, I don't even use a water bottle or anything like that.
(1) Some casinos value "butt-in-seat time", since people often will play nearby machines with higher frequency - what one casino employee called "collateral damage".Quote: Mission146I think your time-on-device per $$$ in is probably the best argument in favor of not allowing slam stopping. That actually makes a ton of sense. You could easily incorporate a greater House Edge if you're going to force people to spin slowly. Imagining $1/spin, you'll lose equally at 1200 HPH on a 92% machine than you will at 800 SPH on an 88% machine, it's $96/hour either way.
This kind of casino might prefer players to chase a progressive with smaller bets (which also gives players less chance of a big win ... which could cause the casino to lose money on the machine in the short-term/medium-term).
(2) Other casinos want big players who play with huge daily Theo. They like having people who run money through the machines fast.
(3) Not allowing faster play at $x/spin, might encourage some players to play a higher amount per spin (unless they are already at max bet).
Or might discourage APs from playing early...encouraging ploppies to play it.
In the thinking of some Slot execs...they would rather have a progressive dropped by someone who will give back some/all/more-than-100% of the money they win, rather than an AP who will keep most/100% of it.
Quote: mamat(1) Some casinos value "butt-in-seat time", since people often will play nearby machines with higher frequency - what one casino employee called "collateral damage".
This kind of casino might prefer players to chase a progressive with smaller bets (which also gives players less chance of a big win ... which could cause the casino to lose money on the machine in the short-term/medium-term).
(2) Other casinos want big players who play with huge daily Theo. They like having people who run money through the machines fast.
(3) Not allowing faster play at $x/spin, might encourage some players to play a higher amount per spin (unless they are already at max bet).
Or might discourage APs from playing early...encouraging ploppies to play it.
In the thinking of some Slot execs...they would rather have a progressive dropped by someone who will give back some/all/more-than-100% of the money they win, rather than an AP who will keep most/100% of it.
1.) That makes sense, except I kind of disagree with the short-medium term part unless you're talking about the EXTREME short-term on a high(er) limit machine. It doesn't really take a ton of hours of time in play, even on a small bet, to counteract a few big pays.
2.) That makes sense and I agree that many casinos might be gunning for that type of player. Particularly those casinos which are perpetually busy to begin with. It must be nice to be able to worry about whose butt is in the seat rather than just worrying about whether you're going to have a butt in that seat or not.
3.) I agree strongly with the first part and disagree moderately with the second. When it comes to beating the actual machine and the machine only, I really don't think Slot Directors concern themselves with AP's one way or another as long as they're being courteous to other guests. I definitely agree with the notion that it could encourage people to bet more. I have noticed that many of these must-hits are machines upon which slam-stopping is not possible, but the minimum bet to qualify for Progressives (i.e. the minimum bet on the machine) is also much lower. Many of the machines that can be slam stopped (mostly other types of Progressives) require a Max Bet to hit the Progressive.
I also agree with your last point because it would be silly of me not to, although, I really don't know how much thought actually goes into thwarting AP's or protecting the overall hold. It's probably not true for every casino, but I imagine most just look at straight up machine AP's as collateral damage part and parcel with having machines people like.
A few $45,000-50,000s dropping early (or a monster bonus round) can make the game negative for the casino for the entire year. On some games, a $1 bet can give a $8,000+ bonus round. Excellent bonus rounds at a $1K bet are $250K-300K (could be $500K-1M with a freakishly good bonus round, or on certain themes).Quote: Mission1461.) That makes sense, except I kind of disagree with the short-medium term part unless you're talking about the EXTREME short-term on a high(er) limit machine. It doesn't really take a ton of hours of time in play, even on a small bet, to counteract a few big pays.
River Dragons (AGS 5K) has a $36,864 blackout @$8.80 (which happened at a casino about 6 months ago during an 128+ spin bonus). If the RPU is only $100-300/day, that's 100-400 days of profit.
When SouthPoint first installed Dreamcard VP in 2010, it was pulled in less than a week. I heard (not sure if it was true), a professional team hit too many royals.
On Ainsworth 10K must-hits, many small casinos set the max bet to 3x5 ($15) or 5x5 ($25) to limit the size of big wins (Themes likely to have big bonuses may be limited to $15, where other themes allow $25). Casinos that want action can set max bet to 20x5 ($100) or 20x10 ($200) or add multi-denom $1/2/5 ($1,000).
Some 50K must-hits are installed with max bet at 3x5 ($75 at $5 denom) to limit the size of freak bonus rounds. It's strange to see $50K must-hits at a casino (max bet $75) with a lower max bet than the 10K must-hits (max bet $100).
This varies. Depends on the philosophy of the GM, VP Slots, VP Table Games, etc...Quote: Mission146
3.) I agree strongly with the first part and disagree moderately with the second. When it comes to beating the actual machine and the machine only, I really don't think Slot Directors concern themselves with AP's one way or another as long as they're being courteous to other guests.
I've not noticed this.Quote: Mission146I have noticed that many of these must-hits are machines upon which slam-stopping is not possible, but the minimum bet to qualify for Progressives (i.e. the minimum bet on the machine) is also much lower. Many of the machines that can be slam stopped (mostly other types of Progressives) require a Max Bet to hit the Progressive.
Some must-hits are 7-10+ years old. ...which gives APs lots of time to ask for settings to be changed. Those changes accumulate.
Quote: mamatA few $45,000-50,000s dropping early (or a monster bonus round) can make the game negative for the casino for the entire year. On some games, a $1 bet can give a $8,000+ bonus round. Excellent bonus rounds at a $1K bet are $250K-300K (could be $500K-1M with a freakishly good bonus round, or on certain themes).
If the casino doesn't have the chutzpah not to worry about potentially taking a loss on a single unit, one of hundreds or thousands, then they just shouldn't be a casino.
I think the $1 bet and an $8,000 bonus round is a good example. If the machine has a theoretical hold of 5%, (which would be VERY low) then they need about $160,000 in additional action to have an expectation of off-setting that jackpot. At 800 spins per hour, you'd need 200 hours of play...and if a machine doesn't generate that kind of play in a year it shouldn't be on the floor.
Quote:River Dragons (AGS 5K) has a $36,864 blackout @$8.80 (which happened at a casino about 6 months ago during an 128+ spin bonus). If the RPU is only $100-300/day, that's 100-400 days of profit.
It can't be that low per day. $1,000-$3,000 coin-in per day on a machine with an $8.80 bet? I'd get rid of it if that's all the weight it was pulling.
Quote:When SouthPoint first installed Dreamcard VP in 2010, it was pulled in less than a week. I heard (not sure if it was true), a professional team hit too many royals.
Cowardly. The House Edge always wins in the end. Besides, they could adjust the paytables. Maybe it was just a floor trial and they decided not to lease it.
Quote:On Ainsworth 10K must-hits, many small casinos set the max bet to 3x5 ($15) or 5x5 ($25) to limit the size of big wins (Themes likely to have big bonuses may be limited to $15, where other themes allow $25). Casinos that want action can set max bet to 20x5 ($100) or 20x10 ($200) or add multi-denom $1/2/5 ($1,000).
I've seen that. I almost wonder if it doesn't have as much to do with wanting to avert too many handpays as anything else? I agree that some of it is limiting exposure, though.
Quote:This varies. Depends on the philosophy of the GM, VP Slots, VP Table Games, etc...
It probably does vary, but any of those people concerned with machine APs really needs to get a hobby.
