MrV
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December 30th, 2016 at 10:16:32 AM permalink
Casinos often rotate new slots in the place of old ones.

My question: can a private party purchase a used slot machine from a casino, or from some other source, and if so, how would one go about doing it?

LV craigslist.com shows a few are for sale, but none interest me: there's a couple slots in particular that I'd be interested in looking at if they were available at a reasonable cost.

I suspect there is probably some middleman somewhere that can broker this?
"What, me worry?"
MathExtremist
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December 30th, 2016 at 10:37:30 AM permalink
Yes, there are lots of used slot vendors. However, the legality of slot machine ownership is determined at the state level. In Oregon it's illegal to own a game newer than 25 years old:

Quote: ORS 167.147


Possession of a gambling device
• defense
(1) A person commits the crime of possession of a gambling device if, with knowledge of the character thereof, the person manufactures, sells, transports, places or possesses, or conducts or negotiates a transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership, custody or use of:
(a) A slot machine; or
(b) Any other gambling device, believing that the device is to be used in promoting unlawful gambling activity.
(2) Possession of a gambling device is a Class A misdemeanor.
(3) It is a defense to a charge of possession of a gambling device if the slot machine or gambling device that caused the charge to be brought was manufactured:
(a) Prior to 1900 and is not operated for purposes of unlawful gambling; or
(b) More than 25 years before the date on which the charge was brought and:
(A) Is located in a private residence;
(B) Is not operated for the purposes of unlawful gambling; and
(C) Has permanently affixed to it by the manufacturer, the manufacturers name and either the date of manufacture or the serial number. [1971 c.743 §269; 1977 c.264 §1; 1983 c.403 §1; 1993 c.781 §1; 1995 c.577 §1]


https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/167.147

But if you're looking, I'd start here:
http://newlifegames.com/nlg/
The sponsors of that forum are listed in a block of banner ads in the middle of the home page, many of them are used slot game distributors.

Edit: also, if you're shipping a slot machine across state lines, federal law may come into play. I haven't looked that up but I'm pretty sure it's illegal with exceptions as opposed to generally lawful. That's why even in Nevada, manufacturers ship parts in and assemble in-state for in-state distribution.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
FleaStiff
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December 30th, 2016 at 10:54:17 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

I suspect there is probably some middleman somewhere that can broker this?

Several websites offer used slot machines, but be careful about shipping gambling equipment across state lines or on federal property. Its not necessarily illegal and the sites are actually sources of good information since when I was looking several years ago the sites listed the chip information as well as the slot machine information and often shipped alternative chips sets as well.

If you can't find out in advance which chip is installed, its safe to assume its a chip that meets the Nevada market since all slot manufacturers aim for the Nevada market and then merely "localize" their chips for other markets.

Slot machines to Mexico is a big business and also, I understand, to illegal clubs in Texas.

Machines from the Phillipines were routinely shipped to the USA but now there are problems.

Also, if you are in the UK you must still abide by the laws that make it illegal to posess anywhere in the UK any device that imitates the sound of a London Metropolitan Police whistle. Its still on the books and they DO enforce it to this day.

If you just want it for "decor" its probably best to buy a simulated machine that is full of chrome and dispenses jackpots at every pull. If you really want to explore the innards, its probably better to take a Junior College course as a Slot Technician. There are schools in Nevada, Mississippi and I believe Colorado that offer slot technician certificates.
Boz
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onenickelmiracle
December 30th, 2016 at 11:37:14 AM permalink
There are a lot of dealers in Ohio for some reason. They can't ship newer machines to PA but you pick them up from their showrooms no questions asked. But the legality is on you when you pick them up and bring them into PA. . I know a few people who have a couple in their game room. Reels go for as little as $500 and early 2000 videos for $1000 and up.
ThatDonGuy
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December 30th, 2016 at 12:11:09 PM permalink
California has a similar "25-year-old machine" law:

Quote: California Penal Code section 330.7

It shall be a defense to any prosecution under this chapter relating to slot machines, as defined in subdivision (d) of Section 330b, if the defendant shows that the slot machine is an antique slot machine and was not operated for gambling purposes while in the defendant’s possession. For the purposes of this section, the term “antique slot machine” means a slot machine that is over 25 years of age.

billryan
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December 30th, 2016 at 4:25:35 PM permalink
I see many of them in auctions in Vegas. Recently saw a counter top Double Diamond go for $250. I don't see many Australian style reels, as I think they just get recycled into new games. I've gotten a few glass tops with game names- Monopoly, Battleship, Gold mine and such. They for for about $5 at auction, $10-15 on ebay.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
billryan
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December 30th, 2016 at 4:29:48 PM permalink
http://www.auctionzip.com/cgi-bin/auctionsearch.cgi?month=1&year=2017&newsearch=0&txtSearchRadius=0&txtSearchZip=89014&txtSearchKeywords=slot+machines&idxSearchCategory=0



You can narrow it down by your zip code.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
ProfessorSlot
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January 5th, 2017 at 5:53:55 AM permalink
Yes it is very possible to buy used one. You also buy a restored slot machine but it would cost you a lot of money. Acquiring the slot depends of you state because some states don't allow privately owned slot machine.
onenickelmiracle
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January 5th, 2017 at 6:10:34 AM permalink
I'm going to be speaking with a vendor in Ohio if anyone has any specific questions about owning a slot machine.
I am a robot.
zippyboy
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January 5th, 2017 at 6:39:40 AM permalink
Something else to think abut is this.....playing a slot at home is NOT the same as playing in a casino. Loses a lot of the allure when you have to fill the hopper with your own coins. What's the point of winning your own jackpot? Your friends might want to play with your money, but you'll have to let them know they can't keep any winnings, or they insert their own coins, and take away all the coins they win. Either way will likely strain the friendship. I say "coins" because the TITO system is newer than 25 years.
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FleaStiff
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January 5th, 2017 at 3:05:10 PM permalink
Quote: zippyboy

....playing a slot at home is NOT the same as playing in a casino.

I'm glad. Most of all, it is important to remember that ALL of Vegas is glad there is a difference between a black jack table in a basement rec room and one in the 'buzz' of a casino. Else every buyer of Thorp's book would have bankrupted the casinos in Vegas long, long ago.
Wizard
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January 5th, 2017 at 3:27:57 PM permalink
Quote: MrV

Casinos often rotate new slots in the place of old ones.

My question: can a private party purchase a used slot machine from a casino, or from some other source, and if so, how would one go about doing it?



When I was at the Venetian they had a huge storage room full of about 1,000 slots they planned to sell to some casino in South America I think. They gave certain employees an opportunity to buy one or two for $500 each. So I ear-marked a couple of them for myself but I never heard anything about them since. I think somebody in charge of the sale didn't want to fuss with selling one and two here and there to employees and conveniently lost the ear-marks.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AxelWolf
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January 5th, 2017 at 4:34:06 PM permalink
What kind of slot machine are you looking to buy?

Personally I would go with an Oddesesy multi game slot, VP and BJ, keno. It was definitely the best on the market at the time. Great sounds, graphics and some special interactive features. Rub the fat monkeys belly and it will laugh. I think I seen them for under 1k. Depending on the software package they have lots of different slot and VP games including 4play VP.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
onenickelmiracle
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January 5th, 2017 at 5:28:46 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

What kind of slot machine are you looking to buy?

Personally I would go with an Oddesesy multi game slot, VP and BJ, keno. It was definitely the best on the market at the time. Great sounds, graphics and some special interactive features. Rub the fat monkeys belly and it will laugh. I think I seen them for under 1k. Depending on the software package they have lots of different slot and VP games including 4play VP.

I wont be getting one, just was thinking about one day and want to know more. A game king or something like that would be nice.
I am a robot.
Wizardofnothing
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January 5th, 2017 at 5:29:39 PM permalink
I've been trying to buy an ultimate x machine for over a year - is pay really good money if anyone has any connection
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AxelWolf
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January 5th, 2017 at 6:28:24 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

I wont be getting one, just was thinking about one day and want to know more. A game king or something like that would be nice.

Game King =Boring IMO. I guess there might be some value if one believes they can predict RNGs' and they believe in all that mumbo-jumbo. Then they could find a GK in a casino and do their thing (go broke).

I would like something a bit unique or collectable. I could not imagine I would ever sit at home and ply a slot for entertainment. It might be fun for guests and as conversation pice.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DRich
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January 5th, 2017 at 7:55:31 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

What kind of slot machine are you looking to buy?

Personally I would go with an Oddesesy multi game slot, VP and BJ, keno.



I did a little bit of work for the compsany that made the Odyesey machine back in the late 90's and I had one until I moved my office. It was too big and heavy to move so I gave it away to someone that was willing to move it. It was a mistake and I wish I kept it.
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Wizard
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January 5th, 2017 at 9:21:03 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

What kind of slot machine are you looking to buy?



I think one was a Game King and the other was an older slot machine, like Leopard Spots. Doesn't matter anymore.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Mission146
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January 7th, 2017 at 5:38:18 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Game King =Boring IMO. I guess there might be some value if one believes they can predict RNGs' and they believe in all that mumbo-jumbo. Then they could find a GK in a casino and do their thing (go broke).



I think it is the case that Kane discovered the GK double-up glitch on a home unit that he had.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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January 7th, 2017 at 6:43:07 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I think it is the case that Kane discovered the GK double-up glitch on a home unit that he had.

I thought about that adding some value, but unless that was my intentions, I don't think I would buy a slot I was not really interested in just because I might find a glitch. How much value could that really add?

I remember reading something about that(him owning an IGT GK) being a possibility, not sure if that's the case. Once it accidently happened did he then buy one for the purpose of trying to recreate it? That I could understand being a good move.

Most articles claim something like this. "It takes a lot of video poker play to stumble upon a bug like that. And Kane, according to his lawyer, played a lot of video poker. “He’s played more than anyone else in the United States,” claims Leavitt. “I’m not exaggerating or embellishing. … In one year he played 12 million dollars worth of video poker” and lost about a million, he says. “It’s an addiction.”
It was during one of his video poker binges that Kane discovered the bug. “He accidentally hit a button too soon, and presto,” says Leavitt, “It was a fluke. There was no research… Just playing.”

Either way, how did that turn out for them?(penniless )

One can rightfully argue he and his friend made lots of really dumb mistakes(like double claiming the same Jackpot, hitting Meadows and the same casinos for so much), and how they would have done it different. This is all after the fact and hearing how it all went down, including what IGT and the casinos knew or didn't know. They had no clue how long this would last, who else might know about it, who else might find out or how it would end. There might have been a sense of urgency.

I know how I think I would have done it, but sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid being in the right place at the wrong time. Eventually something out of your control always goes wrong if you keep doing something like this. The question is how much can you save up before that time? It Never fails, Just when I think something is bound to last.....
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Mission146
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January 7th, 2017 at 6:59:10 AM permalink
Actually, I'm going to take that back and say I had it a little wrong. Kane owned a GK unit at home, but he first encountered the glitch at the Fremont, I believe it was. I think he just used his home unit to figure out precisely what caused the glitch and how to do it intentionally.

Quote: AxelWolf

I thought about that adding some value but unless that was my intentions I don't think I would buy a Slot I was not really interested in just because I might find a glitch. How much value could that possibly add?



I agree with you, my point was that some practical use did come out of it. I don't even think he bought it for the purpose of finding the glitch, I think he already had it before that. Like you said, typically it would just be a novelty for guests and a good conversation piece. If I were going to have anything at home in terms of a gambling device, it'd be a proper craps table. More interactive, and any guests I may have could play it together.

Quote:

I remember reading something about that being a possibility, not sure if that's the case. Once it accidently happened did he then buy one for the purpose of trying to recreate it? That I could understand being a good move.



I think he already had one, and then used it to determine how to duplicate the glitch after it accidentally happened.

Quote:

Either way, how did that turn out for them?(penniless )



Has it been reported that Kane returned the money before the charges against them were dropped? I thought that only Nestor (the one who was doing it at Meadows in Washington, PA) was actually reported to have returned the money.

Quote:

One can rightfully argue he and his friend made lots of really dumb mistakes(like double claiming the same Jackpot, hitting Meadows and the same casinos for so much), and how thy would have done it different. This is all after the fact and hearing how it all went down, including what IGT and the casinos knew or didn't know. They had no clue how long this would last, who else might know about it, who else might find out or how it would end. There might have been a sense of urgency.



It's possible that you may be right as far as Kane is concerned, but Nestor definitely didn't pursue it in the most intelligent way. Kane taught Nestor how the whole thing worked and just wanted a cut of whatever Nestor did, given that it was Kane who discovered it. Nestor then decided there was no reason for him to cut Kane in anymore and so he started doing it himself. When Nestor was eventually caught at The Meadows, I believe Kane had already either been outright caught or was facing some serious heat, so he called Nestor and told him that the jig was up. Nestor believed instead that Kane was just jacked at him for flat out stealing the play and keeping all of the profits when there had previously been some sort of split going on Nestor's action.

Double claiming the same jackpot on the same unique hand was foolish, even if there had been a sense of urgency. Hitting a jackpot on the same precise hand (card positions) within a period of a half hour, or whatever it was? An experienced VP player like Kane, especially playing in a high-limit room, would have to understand, maybe not to the one-millionth of a percent or anything, but that the odds against that are extremely long.

I do agree that hindsight is 20/20, and everyone who is not Nestor or Kane is just Monday-morning quarterbacking this whole thing, but both of them definitely made some dumb mistakes and/or got too greedy.

Quote:

I know how I think I would have done it, but sometimes there's nothing you can do to avoid being in the right place at the wrong time. Eventually something out of your control always goes wrong if you keep doing something like this. The question is how much can you save up before that time?



I know how I would have done it, too. It was on a particular GK unit, so you would have to go around and scout all of the casinos to find that specific type of unit. For my part, I'd take my action cross-country. I wouldn't hit any one casino for more than one jackpot in a month, maybe two, if the specific units weren't actually available at very many places, but it sounds like they were.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Tanko
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January 7th, 2017 at 7:39:42 AM permalink
The Johnson Act of 1962 prohibits the transportation of gambling devices across most state lines.

I owned a pinball machine business years ago.

When a few of my customers began asking me to install slot machines in their back rooms, I called my dealer.

He advised, "Don't do it. I can give you the address of a place in New Jersey that sells refurbished machines, but the FBI watches the place".

"When you leave with your machines, they will follow you, and the moment you cross into New York State, you will be arrested."
Nathan
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January 7th, 2017 at 8:25:18 AM permalink
Quote: zippyboy

Something else to think abut is this.....playing a slot at home is NOT the same as playing in a casino. Loses a lot of the allure when you have to fill the hopper with your own coins. What's the point of winning your own jackpot? Your friends might want to play with your money, but you'll have to let them know they can't keep any winnings, or they insert their own coins, and take away all the coins they win. Either way will likely strain the friendship. I say "coins" because the TITO system is newer than 25 years.



I clicked on this thread to basically say the same thing you just did. I agree, what a weird idea. You cannot win extra money since you are only getting your own money back. I guess the way one guy uses it is good. He says he uses it as an electronic, glorified, high tech piggy bank. That actually makes a lot of sense.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
ThatDonGuy
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January 7th, 2017 at 8:51:51 AM permalink
Quote: Tanko

I owned a pinball machine business years ago.

When a few of my customers began asking me to install slot machines in their back rooms, I called my dealer.

He advised, "Don't do it. I can give you the address of a place in New Jersey that sells refurbished machines, but the FBI watches the place".

"When you leave with your machines, they will follow you, and the moment you cross into New York State, you will be arrested."


Note that 15 USC 1178(2) specifically exempts pinball machines - with one possible exception: depending on the definition of the word "property," transporting pinball machines with a "match" feature may be illegal. The last time I played pinball machines in New York City (1995, IIRC), not only were matches turned off, but no machines rewarded replays - only extra balls. There is nothing new about this; there are a number of machines going back to the 1960s (if not earlier) that have both a "replay" version and an "add-a-ball" (i.e. extra ball) version, with the latter being used in jurisdictions where games with replays were considered illegal as it was felt that the machine owners would "buy back" the replays - i.e. it was a gambling machine (which, of course, is what is done with pretty much every "bingo pinball" machine; the one at the Pinball Hall of Fame on Tropicana is the rare exception).

Also note that some states appear to be exempt from the law, although I doubt New York is one of them.

Here is a link to the specific text of the law.
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