Have slots been getting tighter nowadays?
December 10th, 2016 at 5:55:31 AM
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I remember a guy saying something like "In 2013, a $20 would yield my wife and I enough for dinner for both of us at a fine restaurant and movie and snacks for both of us. Now in 2013, a $20 is gone in about 2 minutes playing the same machines that paid us so well in 2013." Anyone else think that slots today are much tighter in 2016 than 2013?
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
December 10th, 2016 at 6:30:52 AM
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No. 2003? Maybe. 1993? Very likely.
December 10th, 2016 at 6:42:22 AM
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I don't believe that the machines are becoming tighter, per se, just that they are becoming more expensive. I don't pretend to know what kind of machine you like to play, Nathan, but what I do know is that several new machines (especially at the penny denomination) don't necessarily have the capability for you to directly choose how many lines you wish to play and how much per line.
For example, if you're satisfied playing twenty lines at a penny per line, then you would only be looking at a $0.20 total bet. American Original machines, the old school ones, are such that you only have to bet a total of a penny if you can tolerate that, (YUCK!) by betting only one line at one credit per line!
However, many of the newer machines that are coming out seem to be more expensive. You have games like Yardbirds, Antony & Cleopatra and whatever the hell else is on those banks upon which I believe the minimum bet is $0.50 for all games. You have some Quick Hit machine with what appears to be three games on it (but a bonus that applies to all three) that is a, 'Penny,' machine, but the only possible bet amounts are $1.00, $2.00 and $3.00. You have Buffalo Gold upon which the minimum bet is $0.60, and the new Buffalo machines with the Progressive upon which the minimum bet is $0.75 (as I recall) and one must bet $3.00 or $3.75 to qualify for the Progressive. (Also, as I recall)
There are countless other examples of games that start at $0.50, or more, I'm not listing them all.
Again, I don't know if you tend to prefer new machines over old, but if you do, those machines probably have a higher minimum bet than they did just a few years ago. The result of that, of course, is that you pop in a twenty and are essentially starting out with fewer spins, so sometimes the $20 goes away faster than it used to.
For example, if you're satisfied playing twenty lines at a penny per line, then you would only be looking at a $0.20 total bet. American Original machines, the old school ones, are such that you only have to bet a total of a penny if you can tolerate that, (YUCK!) by betting only one line at one credit per line!
However, many of the newer machines that are coming out seem to be more expensive. You have games like Yardbirds, Antony & Cleopatra and whatever the hell else is on those banks upon which I believe the minimum bet is $0.50 for all games. You have some Quick Hit machine with what appears to be three games on it (but a bonus that applies to all three) that is a, 'Penny,' machine, but the only possible bet amounts are $1.00, $2.00 and $3.00. You have Buffalo Gold upon which the minimum bet is $0.60, and the new Buffalo machines with the Progressive upon which the minimum bet is $0.75 (as I recall) and one must bet $3.00 or $3.75 to qualify for the Progressive. (Also, as I recall)
There are countless other examples of games that start at $0.50, or more, I'm not listing them all.
Again, I don't know if you tend to prefer new machines over old, but if you do, those machines probably have a higher minimum bet than they did just a few years ago. The result of that, of course, is that you pop in a twenty and are essentially starting out with fewer spins, so sometimes the $20 goes away faster than it used to.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
December 10th, 2016 at 6:46:19 AM
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Wouldn't bet against it. Minimum payouts don't protect the players because the law can be changed like was the case in Maryland. They'll bottom out until they ask for a new bottom.
The $20 anecdote I don't take to be literal. You might not know the setting there was, but could make three assumptions. They're better, they're about the same, or they're worse. It would be a strange thing having a casino loosen up without a marketing campaign and seeking credit, wanting to gain credibility over competitors. Even being the same is less likely. People don't expect casinos to change their ways, they expect casinos to make more money without increased demand, by keeping more. Slots slip sliding away is always the expectation unless being proven wrong.
There might be people who think casinos cheat on video poker, but I've never suspected it. If the pay table is the same, I expect probability constant, and fair as always. You don't think the same on slots, because you expect a good thing to not last. They're worse off to begin with, but casinos can hide behind the secrecy and volatility. If you after years have any expectations about worst case scenarios, nightmare scenarios, when it seems different, either you were always wrong assuming or you were right, but now the assumptions are wrong. If you really had choices, things might be different, but slot holds seem identically any place you might travel.
It's best to give up on slots, not to be lured by small investments and big rewards. If you designed a mouse trap, you would not want the mouse getting that cheese, and especially not getting it without being caught. Slots are not much about gambling anymore but paying to see pictures compulsively, never satisfying.
The $20 anecdote I don't take to be literal. You might not know the setting there was, but could make three assumptions. They're better, they're about the same, or they're worse. It would be a strange thing having a casino loosen up without a marketing campaign and seeking credit, wanting to gain credibility over competitors. Even being the same is less likely. People don't expect casinos to change their ways, they expect casinos to make more money without increased demand, by keeping more. Slots slip sliding away is always the expectation unless being proven wrong.
There might be people who think casinos cheat on video poker, but I've never suspected it. If the pay table is the same, I expect probability constant, and fair as always. You don't think the same on slots, because you expect a good thing to not last. They're worse off to begin with, but casinos can hide behind the secrecy and volatility. If you after years have any expectations about worst case scenarios, nightmare scenarios, when it seems different, either you were always wrong assuming or you were right, but now the assumptions are wrong. If you really had choices, things might be different, but slot holds seem identically any place you might travel.
It's best to give up on slots, not to be lured by small investments and big rewards. If you designed a mouse trap, you would not want the mouse getting that cheese, and especially not getting it without being caught. Slots are not much about gambling anymore but paying to see pictures compulsively, never satisfying.
I am a robot.
December 10th, 2016 at 7:17:51 AM
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Even quarter and dollar machines are like that now. $10 minimum.Quote: Mission146I don't believe that the machines are becoming tighter, per se, just that they are becoming more expensive. I don't pretend to know what kind of machine you like to play, Nathan, but what I do know is that several new machines (especially at the penny denomination) don't necessarily have the capability for you to directly choose how many lines you wish to play and how much per line.
I am a robot.
December 10th, 2016 at 8:27:13 AM
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I think casinos spoiled it for themselves with outlandish expectations in the wake of transitioning from coins to TITO. They had to see a huge uptick in profits when they moved away from nickel minimums to pennies as well, both of which happened mostly simultaneously. The spins per hour had to go up an incredible percentage, maybe double or more, once people weren't hand feeding the machines. No more hopper fills. Many fewer hand pays.
The casinos got to get rid of buckets, many slot techs, some tellers. All of those things contributed to a huge upsurge in slot revenue. Against that went the more expensive leases and electronic cabinet purchases, and a big jump in royalty pricing with all the tie-in themes for movies, cartoons, celebrities rather than gaming centric but royalty free symbols and themes.
I don't know what the net wound up being over, say, the last 20 years on all that, but my impression is that both the casinos and the distributors made a lot of money in the way up ,then stagnated the last 5 or so years comparatively. The cabinets and royalties keep going up, but the gains from TITO and pennies with aggregate minimums have leveled out.
So now, they have to find more ways to improve the bottom line, and it seems to come in 2 places; lower overall return to player, and many fewer and lower big wins. I am sourly amused every time I hit a "big win" on machines, specifically wms and bally, that gets all the bells and whistles for a 3x total bet win. I suppose on a 50 line machine, with a single.line pay, that.amounts to 150x that line bet, and that's how it's justified, but it doesn't pay doodly-squat when you're forced to play all 50 lines.
/minirant
The casinos got to get rid of buckets, many slot techs, some tellers. All of those things contributed to a huge upsurge in slot revenue. Against that went the more expensive leases and electronic cabinet purchases, and a big jump in royalty pricing with all the tie-in themes for movies, cartoons, celebrities rather than gaming centric but royalty free symbols and themes.
I don't know what the net wound up being over, say, the last 20 years on all that, but my impression is that both the casinos and the distributors made a lot of money in the way up ,then stagnated the last 5 or so years comparatively. The cabinets and royalties keep going up, but the gains from TITO and pennies with aggregate minimums have leveled out.
So now, they have to find more ways to improve the bottom line, and it seems to come in 2 places; lower overall return to player, and many fewer and lower big wins. I am sourly amused every time I hit a "big win" on machines, specifically wms and bally, that gets all the bells and whistles for a 3x total bet win. I suppose on a 50 line machine, with a single.line pay, that.amounts to 150x that line bet, and that's how it's justified, but it doesn't pay doodly-squat when you're forced to play all 50 lines.
/minirant
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
December 10th, 2016 at 10:47:37 AM
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As far as Buffalo go, some of those with the massive progressive, rumor is they can be as low as 84%. Someone recently on a forum mentioned they saw the setting on one of those. It was completely ignored by a poster from the business who commented, so I'm led to believe it could be so true nobody wants to speak of it. It was either the one with the must hits or a WAP, don't remember.
I am a robot.
December 10th, 2016 at 10:49:46 AM
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Are there laws mandating minimum returns? What's to prevent a casino from a 20% return machine sprinkled throughout the property?
December 10th, 2016 at 11:02:35 AM
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There are many state laws mandating minimum returns, and those laws apply to any individual machine in the state in question.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
December 10th, 2016 at 11:26:27 AM
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If casinos want to lower them, leave a suitcase, write those checks, bada bing, bada boom, state minimum now lower.Quote: Mission146There are many state laws mandating minimum returns, and those laws apply to any individual machine in the state in question.
I am a robot.
December 10th, 2016 at 11:44:02 AM
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In a place like Nevada, nothing besides the manufacturers not even making one, but they do.Quote: IndyJeffreyAre there laws mandating minimum returns? What's to prevent a casino from a 20% return machine sprinkled throughout the property?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hkhjZ00rsHQ
He says 80-something-96% and also mentions must hits being paid out solely on the basis of a predetermined jackpot amount being reached.
I am a robot.
December 10th, 2016 at 12:07:50 PM
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Quote: onenickelmiracleIf casinos want to lower them, leave a suitcase, write those checks, bada bing, bada boom, state minimum now lower.
Have you heard of any case in which a state minimum was lowered? I'm not saying there hasn't been, but I've not heard of it happening. Besides, most machines return considerably better than most state minimums, with a few exceptions. By, 'Considerably better,' I mean two percent or more base pays in excess of the minimums.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
December 10th, 2016 at 12:29:58 PM
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Could be 80%. I saw 81% once.Quote: onenickelmiracleAs far as Buffalo go, some of those with the massive progressive, rumor is they can be as low as 84%.
Harrah's often has ordinary 1c slots at 85%. Most Indian casinos set 1c slots at 87-89%. Loosest casino I know has most 1c slots at 93%.
If you hang around casinos long enough, you can get a peek at configuration screens (especially when new machines are being installed, or a machine has a problem). You might even find a machine left in configuration mode, where you can look at all the setup screens to your heart's content... :-)
---
If you look at UNLV stats on Vegas, slot hold in 2015 has increased about 1% across the board (tighter machines), but slot revenues have stayed stable (which means play dropped)...casinos might do better if they had looser slots.
December 10th, 2016 at 12:43:04 PM
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Maryland, bada bing, bada boom.Quote: Mission146Have you heard of any case in which a state minimum was lowered? I'm not saying there hasn't been, but I've not heard of it happening. Besides, most machines return considerably better than most state minimums, with a few exceptions. By, 'Considerably better,' I mean two percent or more base pays in excess of the minimums.
Was sure it changed, definitely was requested. 100xOdds can chime in to clarify.
The casinos were definitely able to change how much they keep relative to the state's share
I am a robot.
December 10th, 2016 at 12:55:15 PM
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They asked, but it hasn't happened, at least not yet. The RTP laws are the same.
Also, in fairness, the requirements ARE higher than in most other states, such as no individual machine allowed to have a theoretical RTP of less than 87%.
Also, in fairness, the requirements ARE higher than in most other states, such as no individual machine allowed to have a theoretical RTP of less than 87%.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
December 10th, 2016 at 1:10:26 PM
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NJ might have been 87% long ago, now 83% iirc. I noticed it surfing, in a John Patrick book on google books, so no proof of the 87%.
I am a robot.
January 5th, 2017 at 9:45:25 PM
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I don't think slots are much tighter today compare to 2013. What I think is bet is increasing year after years. You can still find penny slot games in some casino but most of the time is a dollar or more per bet.
January 5th, 2017 at 11:27:52 PM
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Penny, nickle and quarter slots are all misnomers.... its all multicoin multiline stuff.
Casinos should never have invested so heavily in expensive 'themed' slots. The players have to pay those royalties, the casino just fronts the money. Where do you think the higher royalties will be coming from... the casino accepting looser machines? Get real.
I understand that in Nevada the state minimum is well below all Veas casinos settings.
Other states and Indian casinos don't really have to report to anyone so what do you think is happening?
Locals can afford to play slots... its not a two week vacation for them. They can spend two hours and leave. Vacationers and conventoneers have to max out their time and that is costly.
If you don't get meal comps and room comps these days, its like movie-concession prices in the casinos.
Getting so that the only gambling that is affordable is risky onlie gambling or the local Indian unsupervised but no-airfare gambling.
Casinos should never have invested so heavily in expensive 'themed' slots. The players have to pay those royalties, the casino just fronts the money. Where do you think the higher royalties will be coming from... the casino accepting looser machines? Get real.
I understand that in Nevada the state minimum is well below all Veas casinos settings.
Other states and Indian casinos don't really have to report to anyone so what do you think is happening?
Locals can afford to play slots... its not a two week vacation for them. They can spend two hours and leave. Vacationers and conventoneers have to max out their time and that is costly.
If you don't get meal comps and room comps these days, its like movie-concession prices in the casinos.
Getting so that the only gambling that is affordable is risky onlie gambling or the local Indian unsupervised but no-airfare gambling.
January 6th, 2017 at 12:05:19 AM
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Quote: NathanI remember a guy saying something like "In 2013, a $20 would yield my wife and I enough for dinner for both of us at a fine restaurant and movie and snacks for both of us.
Yeah, and in 1971 five bucks filled up the tank in a muscle car and you'd buy a six pack with the change.
*sigh*
"What, me worry?"
January 16th, 2017 at 5:45:06 PM
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Quote: MrVYeah, and in 1971 five bucks filled up the tank in a muscle car and you'd buy a six pack with the change.
*sigh*
To be fair, minimum wage was $1.60 in 1971! A full 8 hour shift was $12.60! And that's before taxes, insurance, health, etc! Your take home pay a day would have only been about $8 a day! Your take home pay would be roughly $80 every two weeks! Things being cheaper in 1971 than 2017 evens out with how extremely low minimum wage was back then. ;)
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
January 16th, 2017 at 9:33:40 PM
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not sure how to send a post on someone elses thread. I went to horseshoe today. I played $150 worth of 50c 2 credit slots. The best line hit I had was 5x the bet. Most of the time out of $20 I put in I got maybe 3 hits out of that 20 total. I took the last $50 tried to make the money back. Went to a $1 triple double star machine. I put the tito in and didn't get $1 hit the entire time. $0 for the whole tito,. Not even a 5x different 7's. Never going back to Horseshoe again. I consider that damn tight when the best line hit on atleast 6 different machines is only a 5x bet. $5.00 for $1 bet is the best I got
January 17th, 2017 at 12:09:00 AM
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Quote: kravanot sure how to send a post on someone elses thread. I went to horseshoe today. I played $150 worth of 50c 2 credit slots. The best line hit I had was 5x the bet. Most of the time out of $20 I put in I got maybe 3 hits out of that 20 total. I took the last $50 tried to make the money back. Went to a $1 triple double star machine. I put the tito in and didn't get $1 hit the entire time. $0 for the whole tito,. Not even a 5x different 7's. Never going back to Horseshoe again. I consider that damn tight when the best line hit on atleast 6 different machines is only a 5x bet. $5.00 for $1 bet is the best I got
Bad runs happen like that from time to time. I got a 32 spin bonus on Lotus Flower, got only about 25 times my bet. Now, that's an extremely bad bonus considering the fact that I had 32 spins! So, I empathize with you.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
January 17th, 2017 at 4:25:06 AM
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Tighter machines boosted profits in 2013-2016 compared to 2009-2012, but people didn't play as much as 2006-2008. (UNLV reports)Quote: MobcasinosI don't think slots are much tighter today compare to 2013.
December slot hold, slot revenue (millions) - Las Vegas Strip.
2016 8.06% 258
2015 7.09% 255
2014 6.51% 237
2013 7.06% 255
2012 5.99% 219
2011 5.82% 211
2010 5.66% 198
2009 6.48% 221
2008 5.91% 228
2007 5.93% 266
2006 5.63% 252
December slot hold, slot revenue (millions) - State
2016 6.94% 604
2015 6.19% 565
2014 6.15% 559
2013 6.20% 558
2012 5.31% 492
2011 5.19% 481
2010 5.27% 474
2009 5.72% 509
2008 5.81% 574
2007 5.57% 646
2006 5.17% 610
http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/6_month_NV.pdf
http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/NV_dec.pdf
http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports.html
January 17th, 2017 at 4:49:35 AM
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Quote: MobcasinosI don't think slots are much tighter today compare to 2013. What I think is bet is increasing year after years.
Not that I do slots, but surely the slots are getting FASTER per game and expecting more coin input per game. Thus more profit to the casino per unit of time without needing to alter the house edge
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
January 17th, 2017 at 7:58:29 AM
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Quote: OnceDearNot that I do slots, but surely the slots are getting FASTER per game and expecting more coin input per game. Thus more profit to the casino per unit of time without needing to alter the house edge
Oddly enough, it's my impression that slots are much faster due to multiline, commonly 30 lines or more required on penny slots, but much slower overall due to very extended bonus rounds (in time). The bonus rounds are worth a lot less than they used to be, but they give you quite a show. Some go 5-7 minutes or more on a good bonus.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
January 17th, 2017 at 9:02:58 AM
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I hate that most penny slots now require a minimum bet to get a bonus. Loved in past to pay 9 lines at 1 cent each and play a long bonus. Great way to kill time waiting for poker table to open. Once hit for $100 on a straight 9 cent bet. People kept saying I should have been betting more. YEAH, and I would have been broke 2 hours ago.
January 17th, 2017 at 11:31:55 AM
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Quote: mamatTighter machines boosted profits in 2013-2016 compared to 2009-2012, but people didn't play as much as 2006-2008. (UNLV reports)
Yup. It's amazing how one tiny little Great Recession will decrease gaming revenue. But, the data sure seem to suggest NV has tighter slot machines now than previously.
January 17th, 2017 at 2:21:50 PM
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Someone or a few people pointed out something like "The guy who said that got a lot of money playing slots in 2013 and that same $20 was gone in just minutes in 2016 in same slots probably was playing them at .09 in 2013 and the casino had changed them to the .50 minimum, meaning he would have over at least 200 spins at minimum at .09 a bet vs only 40 spins at minimum on a .50 bet." They did have an excellent point.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
January 19th, 2017 at 11:37:49 AM
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Saw a guy hit an $1,800+ jackpot on a $0.05 bet (in 2016). He was down to his last dollar, and betting $0.05 at a time.Quote: fastXXXeddieI hate that most penny slots now require a minimum bet to get a bonus. Loved in past to pay 9 lines at 1 cent each and play a long bonus. Great way to kill time waiting for poker table to open. Once hit for $100 on a straight 9 cent bet. People kept saying I should have been betting more. YEAH, and I would have been broke 2 hours ago.
On the game he played, the bonuses have 30 lines, even if you bet 1 line.
IF he had bet $0.50 (1 line x 10 units, $0.05 machine), he might have gotten $18,000+.
January 19th, 2017 at 11:56:12 AM
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Quote: mamatSaw a guy hit an $1,800+ jackpot on a $0.05 bet (in 2016). He was down to his last dollar, and betting $0.05 at a time.
On the game he played, the bonuses have 30 lines, even if you bet 1 line.
IF he had bet $0.50 (1 line x 10 units, $0.05 machine), he might have gotten $18,000+.
Now that is a "one nickel miracle "!
January 19th, 2017 at 12:01:01 PM
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I don't think any one machine is tighter, but people are playing more penny and nickel based games that have always had a larger hold than a traditional three reel quarter game.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
February 6th, 2017 at 2:32:53 AM
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Bill, what you said actually makes a lot of sense. :)
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
February 6th, 2017 at 2:59:14 AM
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I won $1.20 on Wonder 4 Buffalo super feature betting $1.60. I had $3 another time, thought it was a fluke, yet still an indicator of a miserable setting. People can still hit, but lots of garbage not letting you play. They're getting tighter than a fresh butt hole at a prison.
I am a robot.
February 6th, 2017 at 3:03:25 AM
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I wouldn't think it would get tighter.Quote: onenickelmiracleI won $1.20 on Wonder 4 Buffalo super feature betting $1.60. I had $3 another time, thought it was a fluke, yet still an indicator of a miserable setting. People can still hit, but lots of garbage not letting you play. They're getting tighter than a fresh butt hole at a prison.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
February 6th, 2017 at 3:19:17 AM
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Not after the first night or shower, but walking in, their sphincter must quiver.Quote: AxelWolfI wouldn't think it would get tighter.
I am a robot.
February 8th, 2017 at 5:35:24 PM
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In my personal opinion, a bonus should never pay LESS than your bet.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
"Olive oil is processed but it only has one
ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D
I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;)
Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D
"For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
February 8th, 2017 at 7:07:18 PM
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Quote: NathanIn my personal opinion, a bonus should never pay LESS than your bet.
that's fine but expect your potential winnings in the bonus rounds and on regular spins to be slightly less
March 5th, 2017 at 3:50:50 PM
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Quote: NathanIn my personal opinion, a bonus should never pay LESS than your bet.
Hey Now!
I agree.
March 5th, 2017 at 4:54:19 PM
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There are very few bonus slots that work that way in the first place.Quote: flysrbHey Now!
I agree.
IMO it shouldn't say winner if the pay is less than your bet. It should just say, awarded, or you got some back.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
March 5th, 2017 at 5:52:57 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfThere are very few bonus slots that work that way in the first place.
IMO it shouldn't say winner if the pay is less than your bet. It should just say, awarded, or you got some back.
All VP machines should do the same then on the 1 for 1 pays. Should say "push 5"
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
March 5th, 2017 at 7:47:35 PM
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Was killing time and threw $20 in a Buffalo Run machine. Hit a bonus round and won $4.60. A few rounds later hit another bonus round of Eight free games. Kept getting extra games and Gold buffalos. Ended up winning $464 in the bonus round.
Lightning has to hit somewhere.
Lightning has to hit somewhere.
The older I get, the better I recall things that never happened
May 11th, 2017 at 3:44:13 PM
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Quote: onenickelmiracleAs far as Buffalo go, some of those with the massive progressive, rumor is they can be as low as 84%. Someone recently on a forum mentioned they saw the setting on one of those. It was completely ignored by a poster from the business who commented, so I'm led to believe it could be so true nobody wants to speak of it. It was either the one with the must hits or a WAP, don't remember.
I was at MGM Detroit playing the new Walking Dead and the machine wouldn't take money. The tech opened it up and went through some things and I saw the board wit the settings . The RTP was 79%! I thought that was illegal? I tried to look up what the minimum pay rate in Michigan was, but couldn't find it.
May 11th, 2017 at 4:58:54 PM
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Quote: GarytI was at MGM Detroit playing the new Walking Dead and the machine wouldn't take money. The tech opened it up and went through some things and I saw the board wit the settings . The RTP was 79%! I thought that was illegal? I tried to look up what the minimum pay rate in Michigan was, but couldn't find it.
http://www.americancasinoguide.com/casinos-by-state/michigan-casinos.html
"The only casinos in Michigan not on indian reservations are located in downtown Detroit. All three are open 24 hours and offer the following games: blackjack, craps, roulette, baccarat, mini-baccarat, Caribbean stud poker, three-card poker, pai gow poker, let it ride, big 6 wheel and casino war. No public information is available about the payback percentages on Detroit’s gaming machines."
"Indian casinos in Michigan are not required to release information on their slot machine payback percentages. However, according to officials at the Michigan Gaming Control Board, which is responsible for overseeing the tribal-state compacts, “the machines must meet the minimum standards for machines in Nevada or New Jersey.” In Nevada the minimum return is 75% and in New Jersey it’s 83%. Therefore, Michigan’s Indian casinos must return at least 75% in order to comply with the law. "
Seems plausible but my god that is really low. The machines I have seen for the walking dead werent even linked progressives.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
May 11th, 2017 at 7:10:37 PM
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All the new fancy "penny" machines seem to be set low. They are not really penny machines since you can bet what's basically equivalent to the old $1 and $2 machines. They have been introducing some slots that give you better odds when you bet more. I think overall they are about 5% worse than they used to be. If you want to play slots I highly suggest finding older slots, both video, and the spinning reel kind.
On a good note, I have seen a new "penny" slot set at 95%, it didn't last long at that location and I don't expect to see it around much. );
On a good note, I have seen a new "penny" slot set at 95%, it didn't last long at that location and I don't expect to see it around much. );
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 11th, 2017 at 8:24:05 PM
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The spread between a licensed game and anything random is larger than it used to be. I used to play licensed slots like Star Wars or Monty Python and not be bothered. Won't usually touch licensed stuff any more, too tight and volatile.
I am a robot.
May 11th, 2017 at 8:48:22 PM
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Slots in the tribal casinos I play at in Oregon are no tighter now than they've ever been, so far as I can tell.
I get my share of the occasional hand pays, and am otherwise doing OK with them.
I get my share of the occasional hand pays, and am otherwise doing OK with them.
"What, me worry?"
May 11th, 2017 at 9:55:21 PM
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Do you hear anyone complaining? My rule of thumb, the number of vocal people being negative increases more and more, the more the returns go down. I remember when Soaring Eagle changed from certified hot slots(manufacturer's best return) covering half the floor to completely eliminating it, the number of dissidents went from almost zero to hundreds on the Facebook page. I remember back in the day playing at Mountaineer, negativity central, but because the people didn't feel things were very fair odds wise. Then going to Seneca Niagara and practically hearing nothing. Things were better there, much fairer. Complaining about bad luck is one thing, but when the volume is loud enough, it's not just bad luck. It's a foolish thing to automatically discount complaints about a casino as just being poor losers, but it's much more complex.Quote: MrVSlots in the tribal casinos I play at in Oregon are no tighter now than they've ever been, so far as I can tell.
I get my share of the occasional hand pays, and am otherwise doing OK with them.
On a related note, some casinos seem to have an unusual number of positive posts on Facebook pages. Coincidentally Seneca. Seneca is no longer a super fair place, and I think they hire marketing companies to post false posts from fake facebook profiles. Your post would be a good example of what you might see, not saying you're lying, but such a post is in the same style. It's always going to be true, there will be less positive posts than negative posts, because people don't see a reason to waste time saying things are acceptable, but will take time to state why something is unacceptable.
I am a robot.
May 28th, 2017 at 2:24:56 AM
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Some 1c slots are 96%.Quote: AxelWolfAll the new fancy "penny" machines seem to be set low.
May 28th, 2017 at 9:54:55 AM
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Yes, there are always exceptions to rules or Advantage play wouldn't be a thing. I'm talking about randomly selecting a penny machine on the floor.Quote: mamatSome 1c slots are 96%.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
May 28th, 2017 at 2:51:55 PM
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200 dollars a spin davinci diamonds
Yesterday
Bonus round
0
Yesterday
Bonus round
0
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
