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Wizard
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Wizard
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July 8th, 2015 at 9:48:59 PM permalink
I just returned from Reno where I couldn't help but snap pictures of these advertisements. Click on them for a larger version.





I'm not disputing that the claims made in these ads are truthful. However, what bothers me is that they contain no useful information about the return of the slots at these locations. In intelligent slot player should ask, "How much did the players bet to win that much?" Are these ads fooling anybody? I don't know whether to be mad that Circus Circus and the Reno airport think we're this stupid or depressed that we really are.

The question for the poll is what would you think after reading one of these ads?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
MaxPen
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July 8th, 2015 at 10:57:31 PM permalink
PT'S does the same thing around here. I'm pretty sure there are some people that believe the casinos are losing. Lol
djatc
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July 8th, 2015 at 11:08:26 PM permalink
I was at a place that would have a running meter in real time how much "players were winning!" but that's probably every win that all players get back per spin, but with no losses recorded. Spin $1 get .50 back, add that to the meter!

Regarding those ads: for most people here they know better, but I suppose it looks good to a ploppy. They might be thinking to themselves "well if this casino advertises this and the others don't, what do the other casinos have to hide?"
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rxwine
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July 8th, 2015 at 11:40:25 PM permalink
Lotteries often advertise the same way.

Might as well keep a running tally of everyone who has hit a jackpot in Vegas.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
AxelWolf
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July 9th, 2015 at 12:09:28 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I just returned from Reno where I couldn't help but snap pictures of these advertisements. Click on them for a larger version.





I'm not disputing that the claims made in these ads are truthful. However, what bothers me is that they contain no useful information about the return of the slots at these locations. In intelligent slot player should ask, "How much did the players bet to win that much?" Are these ads fooling anybody? I don't know whether to be mad that Circus Circus and the Reno airport think we're this stupid or depressed that we really are.

The question for the poll is what would you think after reading one of these ads?

My question would be, have they actually loosened their slots? How many slots must one loosen before someone can make a claim like this?

My guess is the had a bad month and decided to capitalize on it.

Have you forever given up on your quest to regarding information about slot paybacks and casino faults advertising.

That was a worthy endeavor. Perhaps you shouldn't give up. I think most people hate faults advertising and non information disclosure.

You were looking for stuff to write about. This would be a good subject to revisit. Perhaps everyone could keep their eyes peeled and relay the information.

There's a few places in Vegas that blatantly advertise certain percentage paybacks yet the have nothing close.

Will other publications pick up stories like this?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
mcallister3200
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July 9th, 2015 at 12:25:48 AM permalink
I've never had money all hanging out of my suitcase before, or a g-string either.
RS
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July 9th, 2015 at 5:36:36 AM permalink
Unfortunately, this is how advertising works nowadays. It's common across all forms of advertising, including statistics. Maybe there's a bar graph showing men earn $25/hour working and it showing women earning $20/hour working. [Just random numbers I chose.] But the bar graph doesn't start at $0 at the bottom, it starts at $15. Looking at such a graph, it would appear men earn double the amount women make, even though they'd really only be making 25% more than women.

Not that I think the gender wage gap exists, because it actually does not exist.


And although such a bar graph would be misleading (to the naked eye, without realizing the graph started at $15 instead of $0), it would still be truthful.


I remember a few months ago, CNN news was on TV and they showed some percentages. I don't remember what it was exactly, but had to deal with the white population and black population and the % of arrests. The way the information was displayed, it made it look like black people were arrested (or in jail or were victims of "police brutality", or whatever it was) at some astonishingly huge rate, far beyond what it was for white people, and I was pretty shocked. Anyway, I pulled out the calculator app on my phone, and figured out there was nothing abnormal about the information given, meaning white people and black people were both arrested (or in jail or whatever it was) at an almost perfect/equal rate.

Of course, they could do other things. Perhaps they'd say the population of a city is 15% blacks, but then say 75% of the arrests were for minorities (ie: non-whites). That might seem shocking and "omg racist cops!" might be the first thing in your mind....before you realize that 65% of the population is mexican.





It's a sad truth how advertising works. Either they find two things that are not related and try to relate them ("loose slots" and "total payouts" without considering the coin in / losses.....or "mens wages" and "womens wages" without considering the types of professions men tend to be in versus women or the percentage of men versus women actually working.....etc.)......or they get some kind of data and present it in a misleading way (ie: starting a bar graph at $15 instead of $0, so it looks like men make 2x what women make [again the dollar amounts are random numbers I picked to illustrate it]).


Another sad truth is, because of all this stupid advertising that isn't real or proper.....it causes us to sometimes doubt the real and legitimate advertisements or statistics.
Wizard
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July 9th, 2015 at 5:52:54 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Have you forever given up on your quest to regarding information about slot paybacks and casino faults advertising.

That was a worthy endeavor. Perhaps you shouldn't give up. I think most people hate faults advertising and non information disclosure.

You were looking for stuff to write about. This would be a good subject to revisit. Perhaps everyone could keep their eyes peeled and relay the information.

There's a few places in Vegas that blatantly advertise certain percentage paybacks yet the have nothing close.

Will other publications pick up stories like this?



I got the Vegas Club to stop saying they had the loosest slots downtown. I'm always open to keeping slot machine casino advertising honest. Some of the time, like with the El Cortez, they will provide some figures on request to back up their claims. Others, like the Palms, let a third party, Anthony Curtis, see the figures.

Shall we say I'm happy to try to keep them honest. Let me know the specifics of what advertising you find fishy.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
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July 9th, 2015 at 5:54:17 AM permalink
Quote: mcallister3200

I've never had money all hanging out of my suitcase before, or a g-string either.



It looks to me like that woman has no feet.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
AxelWolf
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July 9th, 2015 at 6:12:54 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I got the Vegas Club to stop saying they had the loosest slots downtown. I'm always open to keeping slot machine casino advertising honest. Some of the time, like with the El Cortez, they will provide some figures on request to back up their claims. Others, like the Palms, let a third party, Anthony Curtis, see the figures.

Shall we say I'm happy to try to keep them honest. Let me know the specifics of what advertising you find fishy.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

They did have some good slots and still have some good video poker.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Gabes22
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July 9th, 2015 at 6:20:57 AM permalink
I believe this is a perfectly normal casino advertisement. Most slots players know the odds in slots are worse than games like blackjack or craps, but they play them anyway for the shot at a large jackpot or for the fact they don't have to deal with people telling them what they did wrong at the tables and some people find them fun. This IMO just plays into one of the biggest motivations to play the slots which is the possibility of winning a big jackpot.
A flute with no holes is not a flute, a donut with no holes is a danish
zoobrew
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July 9th, 2015 at 6:25:48 AM permalink
I just came back from visiting Reno for the first and last time. What really needs to change is the city's motto, The Biggest Little City in the World. The downtown is a depressing dump, we were walking between the downtown casinos on a Tues. afternoon and it was almost abandoned expect for the bums hanging out in front of the casinos. It sort of reminded me of the old depressed steel towns of W. PA.
Joeman
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July 9th, 2015 at 6:40:09 AM permalink
My answer to the poll was a big ol' "Meh." Personally, I have long ceased giving any credence to these types of ads. If I am really concerned about slot payback, I'd probably come here or over to WoO for the straight (well, straightest available) dope.

As far as the airport ad goes, I can't see anyone thinking that the airport's slots pay more than the casino's. In fact, if instead of that ad, they had placed a piece of construction paper with "There are slot machines in the terminal" hand-written in magic marker, I bet it would have the same effect on travelers. They could have used the money they spent on this ad campaign to loosen those slots! :P

Quote: Wizard

It looks to me like that woman has no feet.

Indeed! I hadn't noticed that. Now, I am wondering why she is pulling her suitcase up that purple pyramid thing. Won't some of the bills become dislodged and fall out when the suitcase comes crashing down from the pyramid?

Ok, now I am noticing the tag line on the airport ad:
"Over $15 million won at Reno Tahoe International. You could be next!"

Does anyone see this as an ambiguous non-sequitur with ominous overtones? Maybe it's just me.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
Dieter
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July 9th, 2015 at 7:20:07 AM permalink
The places in my neighborhood advertise the total jackpot payouts.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DJTeddyBear
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July 9th, 2015 at 7:22:39 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard



If the prior monthly average was $10m, $15m or hell, even $20m then I'd be impressed.

The reality is, and what most of us would assume, is that the prior average was $25m or even $25.5m.

But to the ignorant / uninformed, that banner is impressive.

Spin doctoring at its finest.


But misleading? Sadly, no.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
bobsims
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July 9th, 2015 at 8:27:15 AM permalink
I will say that in a few hours playing CC Reno's penny slots (Uncle Sam, Texas Tea) a few months ago I was astounded at the high returns. I get a similar feeling at the Boulder Strip low level joints like Boulder Station and AZ Charlie's.
Romes
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July 9th, 2015 at 9:09:06 AM permalink
Favorite college stats professor quote: Figures never lie, but liars sometimes figure.

I agree with those that previously stated... I hate these signs because they're 100% misleading. As someone else pointed out, if I put $1 in, bet it, and "win" 50 cents back, they count that as "paying out" 50 cents, which is NOT the case. I LOST money, but they're claiming they're paying out. It's a misrepresentation of the data, and I hate scummy people whom try to use good data the wrong way. i.e. Every casino in existence.

There's a few signs like that around my area for some local casinos. There's been times when I've had friends in my car say "Well someone must be winning!" and I have to point out that no... in fact EVERYONE can lose and they'll post a sign like that. If people bet $100 million dollars total and all get half of what they bet back then they are ALL losers. Yet that sign will say "Paid out $50 million to all the winners!!!"
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Ibeatyouraces
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July 9th, 2015 at 10:07:18 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

It looks to me like that woman has no feet.


Who's looking at her feet?? 0:-)
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
AcesAndEights
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July 9th, 2015 at 10:24:24 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Who's looking at her feet?? 0:-)


Glad to see you back on the boards, IBYA.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
charliepatrick
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July 9th, 2015 at 10:26:44 AM permalink
There are quite a lot of adverts like this - typically the ones on TV here are for bingo companies saying we pay out over {so much} per hour. Lotteries use the same tactic of concentrating on the winners' amount or how much we raise for charities.

My immediate response to this is if players are getting X then the casino might be making X/10 - gosh that's a lot of money you're making!

With fruit machines set at 95% it would be X/19 etc. but the principle applies that if they pay out a lot, they also must be keeping a lot.
Boz
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Ibeatyouraces
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July 9th, 2015 at 11:01:55 AM permalink
I'm still waiting for a casino to advertise the real truth about what they think their business is supposed to be:

"We're in the 'entertainment' business. We hate winners and kick out consistent winners or AP's. Only losers are welcome!"
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
rxwine
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July 9th, 2015 at 12:24:35 PM permalink
Slots are the games where you can hide the true cost from the customer. That would be good in any business if you could still count on customers buying your product. Who wouldn't want that advantage if you could get away with it?
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
FleaStiff
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July 9th, 2015 at 12:53:28 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

My question would be, have they actually loosened their slots? How many slots must one loosen before someone can make a claim like this?

In reno, I don't know. In vegas, recall those two "s" casinos I always get mixed up.... silverton? theone with the nice large rooms and ultra watchful floor persons at blackjack...

He called in a friendly and photogenic journalist and announced his loosened slots. ten percent of his slots had been loosened but no way to tell which ten percent. Made headlines about loosened slot. did not make headlines about deception.
Mission146
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July 9th, 2015 at 2:14:35 PM permalink
I don't personally have a problem with the advertisement as long as the, "We've loosened out slots," part is true. Even then, that doesn't say anything meaningful. If you loosen the return on one slot machine, but leave everything else on the floor the same, then technically, you have loosened the slots an infinitesimal percentage, but loosened them nonetheless.

The average monthly payout not stating the amount of coin-in that resulted in that payout is largely irrelevant, provided the actual statement as to the average monthly payout is true. Many casinos in my area advertise how much they have paid out in jackpots over x period of time, while one states the payout daily, monthly and yearly on their signage within the casino.

In any event, anyone with reading comprehension should be able to note that the signage does not make a meaningful statement as to actual quantifiable odds or return based on coin-in.

Ultimately, I do not personally believe that there is anything misleading about the advertisements.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AxelWolf
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July 9th, 2015 at 3:58:47 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I don't personally have a problem with the advertisement as long as the, "We've loosened out slots," part is true. Even then, that doesn't say anything meaningful. If you loosen the return on one slot machine, but leave everything else on the floor the same, then technically, you have loosened the slots an infinitesimal percentage, but loosened them nonetheless.

The average monthly payout not stating the amount of coin-in that resulted in that payout is largely irrelevant, provided the actual statement as to the average monthly payout is true. Many casinos in my area advertise how much they have paid out in jackpots over x period of time, while one states the payout daily, monthly and yearly on their signage within the casino.

In any event, anyone with reading comprehension should be able to note that the signage does not make a meaningful statement as to actual quantifiable odds or return based on coin-in.

Ultimately, I do not personally believe that there is anything misleading about the advertisements.

in that case its just telling you facts. Mabey, it depends on what they claim is a jackpot($1 JP). I thought it said we payed out x amount thia month period are you sure it says in jackpots.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
ECoaster
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July 9th, 2015 at 4:19:55 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

I agree with those that previously stated... I hate these signs because they're 100% misleading. As someone else pointed out, if I put $1 in, bet it, and "win" 50 cents back, they count that as "paying out" 50 cents, which is NOT the case. I LOST money, but they're claiming they're paying out. It's a misrepresentation of the data, and I hate scummy people whom try to use good data the wrong way. i.e. Every casino in existence.



Golden Nugget AC has (or use to have) scrolling text at the bottom of their video info boards that includes an update of how much $$ their machines paid out that day... Obviously one would assume it works the same way.
Mission146
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July 10th, 2015 at 12:52:53 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

in that case its just telling you facts. Mabey, it depends on what they claim is a jackpot($1 JP). I thought it said we payed out x amount thia month period are you sure it says in jackpots.



I'll take a harder look at it next time...
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
teddys
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July 10th, 2015 at 12:43:17 PM permalink
Quote: AcesAndEights

Glad to see you back on the boards, IBYA.

Well, where have YOU been?!
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Ibeatyouraces
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July 10th, 2015 at 1:09:34 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Well, where have YOU been?!


Yeah, he's a little late to the party.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
onenickelmiracle
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August 23rd, 2017 at 4:06:20 PM permalink
LOCAL HOLLYWOOD LIKES GIVING IT ROUGH HOLLYWOOD STYLE AGAIN.


The bastards advertise $1000 every 15 minutes, Saturdays in August, on billboards. They fail to mention, this promotion is only from 4pm-7pm and it's not actually true someone wins $1,000 every 15 minutes, they do not redraw and do not announce, they don't redraw. If no one claims, the prize returns to the prize pool, whatever in the **** that means. They used to redraw every drawing twice or more, but started to stop that this year usually not redrawing with most drawings. rules
Last edited by: onenickelmiracle on Aug 23, 2017
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