House would not pay me the win
Quote: ruascottWhat a shitty casino? Where was this? That's really bad when gaming is there saying they should pay and they still refuse. I can't believe a casino manager would allow such a scene to be caused over a $250 pay.
Our only hope for the future is that the Wizard's site becomes an industry standard, and the next generation of managers come on here and see how foolish sweating the money is.
Quote: ahiromuI can't believe you continued to play there. Really? A casino shafts you of a good amount of money and you continue to put your money into their machines?
No, I went to another casino. Sorry about the clarity. About the Casino manager, I think the lower level managers created the problem and then could not get out of it when the big casino manager showed up. They said I called Gaming but they were alrady there and they also said I demanded $250 and I did not. I am in sales and know never to volunteer a number.
Quote: nyuhoosierSo what casino was it? I don't see why you would want to protect their rep, but if you must, at least tell us where the casino is and who owns it.
Yes, I agree. This site is all about reviewing casinos. No reason to hold back, something as particularly as bad as this.
So they'll take a gaming commission report instead of paying 250 bucks?
Sounds like a really really shitty casino to me.
OR: you were playing a single line machine, with a $3 bet pay table? Most reel machines that pay multiple lines are 5 way, not 3 way.
In any case, I can't imagine a machine malfunctioning that way, not paying a valid pay line. It just doesn't happen, when a machine malfunctions it's pretty obvious. In some way, your actions were different from your intent.
On the other hand, sometimes you might overplay what you intended. I put $100 in a machine and hit max bet; I hadn't noticed it was 9 lines and $5 per line! Fortunately for me, I hit something on the first spin, and walked away with a few hundred dollars.
Quote: MoscaMy guess is that you thought you were playing max lines, but you probably weren't. I've done that before myself, I thought I was playing $3 when I was only playing $2; I'd hit "repeat bet" to start, and had continued to hit "repeat bet", rather than "max bet", and the previous player had last played 2 units. When I got "POWER UP BONUS SPIN" and nothing happened, I was really pissed at the machine, and then I saw what I'd done, and then I was really pissed at myself, for careless play.
OR: you were playing a single line machine, with a $3 bet pay table? Most reel machines that pay multiple lines are 5 way, not 3 way.
In any case, I can't imagine a machine malfunctioning that way, not paying a valid pay line. It just doesn't happen, when a machine malfunctions it's pretty obvious. In some way, your actions were different from your intent.
On the other hand, sometimes you might overplay what you intended. I put $100 in a machine and hit max bet; I hadn't noticed it was 9 lines and $5 per line! Fortunately for me, I hit something on the first spin, and walked away with a few hundred dollars.
It sounded like he won on the 3rd line of a 3 line machine, and one excuse they tried to use was the bonus didn't engage, but the bonus wasn't part of the win that he scored, so it wasn't an issue.
I BET IT'S CAESAR'S PALACE!
Their new game is to use and abuse the patron dispute process. I've heard it from more than one person. It's not just a the small slot machine wins these days. They consider tables games to be fair game as well. If they think they can get out of paying, then they will try. Can you say, "Bad Faith!"
It will take longer than 30 days for them to pay you. They will render a decision in 30 days. Then, the casino has another 20 days in which to appeal. Meaning, the casino will not be sending a check to the gaming commission on your behalf for approximately 50 days.
This is a new and very distrubing trend that should be considered as "bad faith" by the gaming control.
Openly name the casino and help put an end to predatory casino practices!
Your best bet is to avoid them and just change casinos.
Quote: cclub79Quote: MoscaMy guess is that you thought you were playing max lines, but you probably weren't. I've done that before myself, I thought I was playing $3 when I was only playing $2; I'd hit "repeat bet" to start, and had continued to hit "repeat bet", rather than "max bet", and the previous player had last played 2 units. When I got "POWER UP BONUS SPIN" and nothing happened, I was really pissed at the machine, and then I saw what I'd done, and then I was really pissed at myself, for careless play.
OR: you were playing a single line machine, with a $3 bet pay table? Most reel machines that pay multiple lines are 5 way, not 3 way.
In any case, I can't imagine a machine malfunctioning that way, not paying a valid pay line. It just doesn't happen, when a machine malfunctions it's pretty obvious. In some way, your actions were different from your intent.
On the other hand, sometimes you might overplay what you intended. I put $100 in a machine and hit max bet; I hadn't noticed it was 9 lines and $5 per line! Fortunately for me, I hit something on the first spin, and walked away with a few hundred dollars.
It sounded like he won on the 3rd line of a 3 line machine, and one excuse they tried to use was the bonus didn't engage, but the bonus wasn't part of the win that he scored, so it wasn't an issue.
I understand, but the machines just don't work that way. I don't design and build them, but the result as described is so far out of normal operation as to be incredible, in the most basic meaning of the word. Not paying on the 3rd line, with max units, if it's a pay line, would be the same as not paying on the center line with one unit. It just doesn't happen. It is far more likely that what the OP thinks he did is not what he actually did. The machines aren't infallible, but they're pretty damn reliable. When they go schitz you can tell. But people get brain farts all the time.
What machine was it, what was the name of it? Blazing 7s, Fireball Frenzy?
Quote: MoscaQuote: cclub79Quote: MoscaMy guess is that you thought you were playing max lines, but you probably weren't. I've done that before myself, I thought I was playing $3 when I was only playing $2; I'd hit "repeat bet" to start, and had continued to hit "repeat bet", rather than "max bet", and the previous player had last played 2 units. When I got "POWER UP BONUS SPIN" and nothing happened, I was really pissed at the machine, and then I saw what I'd done, and then I was really pissed at myself, for careless play.
OR: you were playing a single line machine, with a $3 bet pay table? Most reel machines that pay multiple lines are 5 way, not 3 way.
In any case, I can't imagine a machine malfunctioning that way, not paying a valid pay line. It just doesn't happen, when a machine malfunctions it's pretty obvious. In some way, your actions were different from your intent.
On the other hand, sometimes you might overplay what you intended. I put $100 in a machine and hit max bet; I hadn't noticed it was 9 lines and $5 per line! Fortunately for me, I hit something on the first spin, and walked away with a few hundred dollars.
It sounded like he won on the 3rd line of a 3 line machine, and one excuse they tried to use was the bonus didn't engage, but the bonus wasn't part of the win that he scored, so it wasn't an issue.
I understand, but the machines just don't work that way. I don't design and build them, but the result as described is so far out of normal operation as to be incredible, in the most basic meaning of the word. Not paying on the 3rd line, with max units, if it's a pay line, would be the same as not paying on the center line with one unit. It just doesn't happen. It is far more likely that what the OP thinks he did is not what he actually did. The machines aren't infallible, but they're pretty damn reliable. When they go schitz you can tell. But people get brain farts all the time.
What machine was it, what was the name of it? Blazing 7s, Fireball Frenzy?
I agree that it's exceedingly inconceivable, but aren't the number of coins bet right there on the digital readout, and it remains there until the next bet is made? What I'm saying is, if he bet 2 coins, isn't the LED "2" right there, which would seem to end all arguments? I can't imagine Gaming would support him seeing that he didn't bet the line.
Quote: cclub79
I agree that it's exceedingly inconceivable, but aren't the number of coins bet right there on the digital readout, and it remains there until the next bet is made? What I'm saying is, if he bet 2 coins, isn't the LED "2" right there, which would seem to end all arguments? I can't imagine Gaming would support him seeing that he didn't bet the line.
Well, I wasn't there, and I have no reason to doubt that the OP's account is relayed as accurately as it could be. But yes, the situation as described is exceedingly inconceivable.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffActually speaking of Caesars being shady, I was playing Pai Gow Poker there and all the players were betting fairly heavily on the sucker side fortune bonus bet (around $5-$25) and the machine malfunctioned, I suspect the 7 card straight flush was out there and the machine sensed it (like it does in Dealer Bluff) and purposely malfunctioned! Im not a fan of malfunction voids all pays and plays, a VP machine could give me a royal flush and say it malfunctioned.
The fortune Pai Gow side bet is such a sucker bet anyway that the casino makes plenty of money without having to doctor cards. The casino makes enough money anyway, and a $25K payout for a 7 card straight flush for example is piddles compared to the millions it makes on its whales.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffActually speaking of Caesars being shady, I was playing Pai Gow Poker there and all the players were betting fairly heavily on the sucker side fortune bonus bet (around $5-$25) and the machine malfunctioned, I suspect the 7 card straight flush was out there and the machine sensed it (like it does in Dealer Bluff) and purposely malfunctioned! Im not a fan of malfunction voids all pays and plays, a VP machine could give me a royal flush and say it malfunctioned.
Off topic, but I just cannot believe silliness like this persists. There is, literally, a zero percent chance a large casino corporation is going to risk a significant fine, its license and reputation by doctoring a machine in such a way. We're talking what here, $25 - $35k? Caesars books action higher than that on single hands on most weekends.
Not to mention the shuffler was probably leased from a third party vendor who would have been responsible for its operation and maintenance. The number of people that would need to be involved in such a conspiracy is prohibitively high to the point where such a scheme could never get off the ground without someone coming forward to blow the whistle.
If you really are this paranoid, you should not be in a casino in the first place.
Quote: SolidAUOff topic, but I just cannot believe silliness like this persists...
I agree. As you said, reputable casinos don't need to cheat to have a healthy advantage over the players. Putting the ethical considerations aside, it would be terrible business to risk their reputation and fines over a win on a straight flush. Second, the common shufflers don't read the cards. There is a recent exception for the shuffler in the game Dealer Bluff. I don't think that even with MindPlay does the shuffler read the cards.
Casino cheating isn't completely unheard of. For example, there is the case of the Venetian rigging a drawing. However, with the Fortune side bet, the risk of being caught overwhelms the reward. I wouldn't put the probably at "literally zero percent," but more like 0.001%.
Quote: WizardFor example, there is the case of the Venetian rigging a drawing.
Wow wow wow. I had never heard that story; thanks for posting. Agree with the pro gambler in the article who said, "I'm shocked there was no mention of criminal charges. If this commission wants any credibility, criminal charges have to be brought. If they aren't, you should throw a picnic and go home."
I'm guessing no charges were brought. If a single player who cheats a game faces prison time, certainly everyone involved here should have. This undermined the credibility of all of Las Vegas, so the penalties should be even greater.
I do, however, believe the current policy in Caesar's is to cut back and save money when and wherever they possibly can. This means exploiting and abusing the patron dispute process. They have a lot on the line these days, including the Terrance Watanabe case in which they stand to lose hundreds of millions if they don't get it settled.
(They should lose their gaming license, but they employ too many people.)
The Terrance case will likely change how casino markers are handled in LV. If CP loses, it's likely that patrons will no longer face jail time on outstanding casino markers. This could have devastating consequences for the casinos in LV. From what I've heard and read so far, they (The remaining incompetent boobs running the legal dept. that haven't jumped ship at CP) are trying to get this thing settled out of court. Gaming is now investigating CP as well.
Mark
