Accumulator Slots
Quit being an @$$ and designing slots like that.Quote: DRichThe games I design give the customer between 10 and 20 seconds to insert credits before the reset. Most customers take longer than that to get up and leave the machine after running out of credits. If the customer cashes out, which is typically the case on penny slots because of the odd credit amounts not being enough for another play, the bonus resets immediately.
Quote: mickeycrimmIf a ploppie runs out of credits and gets up do you have enough time to stick a bill in the machine before it resets?
Depends on how fast they move.
It would help to have their agreement that you take over.
Somewhere between 10 and 30 seconds, countdown timer is displayed.
Quote: mickeycrimmOne of the youtube videos was recorded at the Mirage.
Caesars slot finder: Bally's. Caesars. Flamingo, Paris. Planet Hollywood, the Quad.
The one at Paris is different and I assume the other CZR ones are as well. The Sphinx at Paris is a $1 5 Credit max jumbo machine by the entrance to the Tower and the Sports Book. It is backed by a Jumbo Phantom of the Opera machine. I dont remember ever seeing the pyramid feature on this machine.
Quote: DRichThe games I design give the customer between 10 and 20 seconds to insert credits before the reset. Most customers take longer than that to get up and leave the machine after running out of credits. If the customer cashes out, which is typically the case on penny slots because of the odd credit amounts not being enough for another play, the bonus resets immediately.
In that case you have to knock the ploppie out of the way. LOL.
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=good-times&page=detail&id=7776
Okay, the picture is not very good quality and this is a 3-coin Good Times and not a 2-coiner where the money was made.
About the year 2000 I was having lunch at the Bay City Diner in the Golden Gate with a downtown hustler we called Peg-Leg Rich. Somehow the subject got on Bally's. He told me that he had promised a friend that he would stay out of Bally's. I asked him why. He said that his friend had ran his bankroll from $5000 up to $25,000 in just a few weeks playing the Good Times machines and he didn't want any competition. Bally's had them in quarter, 50 cent and dollar denom. I had paid scant attention to these machines before I got Rich's information. There were a few quarter Good Times in the Fremont, a few in the California Club, and a few in Main Street Station.
In the picture you can barely see the multipliers on the LED screen at the top of the machine. You can see the X symbol sitting on the line of the second reel. The multipliers on the LED screen of the two coiners looked like this:
12X......144X
10X......100X
9X........81X
8X........64X
7X........49X
6X........36X
5X........25X
4X........16X
3X........9X
2X........4X
1X........1X
In the picture you can see that one of the multiplier lines towards the bottom is highlighted in blue. While playing, the multiplier advances one notch up the screen whenever you catch blanks on all three reels.
When I first started playing this game I would only spin it off if I caught the multipliers at 12X....144X. And I kept an empirical on my results. So in my regular late morning routine of walking around downtown Vegas and picking off accumulator slot plays I started playing the Good Times. And after showing good results I crept my playable number down to 8X....64X.
So I'll explain the upper end, 12X...144X. You can see in the picture that single bars pays 10 coins. But if you caught the X symbol on the first reel and single bar---single bar on the second and third reels you got paid 12X 10 or 120 coins. If you caught the X symbol on the first and second reels and then single bar on the third reel you got paid 144 X 10 or 1440 coins.
Catching the X symbol on the first reel and double bar-double bar on the second and third reels you got paid 12X20 or 240 coins. If you caught the X symbol on the first and second reels and the double bar on the third reel you got paid 144X20 or 2880 coins.
And so on up the line to where if you caught the X symbol on the first and second reels and the red seven on the third reel you got paid 144X60 or 8640 coins.
This was a bankroll play. You had to run volume. You had a lot of small winners and small losers but sometimes you made the big hit. I hit the X-X-Red Seven several times.
I would spin the play off if I caught the multipliers at 8X....64X or higher. After you X out the multiplier resets at the bottom end of the multiplier scale. I made a very healthy profit playing the game.
There are four videos of this game on youtube. The link is so long I don't even want to try and put it up. So if you want to get a look at the game then go to youtube.
This is a game where collecting the green stamps got you a bonus and up to 25 free spins where the free spins were worth about $2.50 each on penny machines and about $12.50 on nickel machines.
Collecting 1200 green stamps got you a bonus and five free spins and this is where most of the plays were. The tourist ploppies would bank up the green stamps and leave the machine. I would spin it off if I found 700 or higher green stamps accumulated.
In the youtube videos, when the free games are over and it goes back to the regular game you can stop the video and get a look at the section on the right side of the screen. IN one of the videos you can see that the person is betting 25 cents and there is a 2X green stamp in the screen. This banks 50 green stamps. When you get 1200 green stamps you have the option to continue playing and banking more green stamps or taking the free spins.
Some tourist ploppies are so oblivious to how the game is played that they bank up 3 or four sections of green stamps and walk away leaving you with 15 or twenty free games.
They put banks of these machines in Montego Bay and the Rainbow in Wendover when I was there is 2006/7. I would hang around these banks on the busier days.
Do any of you guys still see these machines around?
At the time they came out and boomed I was playing other stuff, so I rarely checked them, it brought unnecessary heat from casinos and attention from the hustlers.
The few times I did look, I didn't find many, of the ones I did find I made very little.
IGT Vision series had the well known Diamond Mine slot.Quote: onenickelmiracleOnly one casino had this and only one machine. There was another version with progressive jackpots and super stamps bonuses, but long gone. Weren't really playable too often the last few years anyways when removed them. It got to the point I would look once then not again the day.
Not so well known, was a rare Super diamond mine shaft at Luxor (the only place I played or seen it)
It was a very cool concept entertainmentwise. Cool sounds and the works, especially for a 3 reel non video reel slot game with bonus rounds.
It was set up like the regular Diamond Mine slot, but this one was linked like a progressive . Every time someone completed their own diamond shaft or added diamonds to their shafts It added a small various amount of diamond dust to a linked super shaft. I can't remember what seeded the super shaft amount or even if it was progressive. Hell I don't remember if it was .25 or $1 denominations.
I just remember it was fairly high.
When the super dimon shaft feature was almost full (it took at least day or more) you would jump on 2 machines and fire away. Whoever added the last diamond dust to fill the shaft got the money (anyone could get lucky). It was similar to a linked must hit by slot machine.
I liked plays like this because they were valuable, fun, competitive(I'd hear other AP's/hustlers say, "omg not them guys, they hit it again), It was fairly fast and furious(30 to 60 minutes). So this wasn't a 100% lock you'd make money. Get snapped off and it's doubtful you'd be ahead.
It was tricky figuring out when to jump on, because it was almost impossible to coordinate and lock up all the machines. Also the more people you had, the less you made. You had a better chance to hit it, however paying people or splitting with more partners cut into profits.
If you started to low others might jump in and steal some value, jump in to late and you lose machines and get cut down to one seat. If you didn't leave any seats available you could pisse off ploppies and hustlers, and risked complaints. Friday night was a bitch. 4am monday morning and you were probably fine, 2 guys was enough.
This was all going on at the same time that hey had the good countable Blackjack Blitz, so it was easy to keep an eye on the SDDM while playing the BJB.
The Super Diamond shaft didn't last long, but that's probably a good thing, because that probably helped not getting spotted on the BJB
There was a big screw up with these when they changed them from two centers to penny not adjusting the jackpots. Never saw a fine for the casino setting them above state maximum 95%, which should have been done being obviously over 100. Knowing this, how can anyone ever trust regulations honestly. Means either state didn't know, or state did, and either isn't good.
Axel, I remember seing this bank of machines at Luxor but never played them.Quote: AxelWolfIGT Vision series had the well known Diamond Mine slot.
Not so well known, was a rare Super diamond mine shaft at Luxor (the only place I played or seen it)
It was a very cool concept entertainmentwise. Cool sounds and the works, especially for a 3 reel non video reel slot game with bonus rounds.
It was set up like the regular Diamond Mine slot, but this one was linked like a progressive . Every time someone completed their own diamond shaft or added diamonds to their shafts It added a small various amount of diamond dust to a linked super shaft. I can't remember what seeded the super shaft amount or even if it was progressive. Hell I don't remember if it was .25 or $1 denominations.
I just remember it was fairly high.
When the super dimon shaft feature was almost full (it took at least day or more) you would jump on 2 machines and fire away. Whoever added the last diamond dust to fill the shaft got the money (anyone could get lucky). It was similar to a linked must hit by slot machine.
I liked plays like this because they were valuable, fun, competitive(I'd hear other AP's/hustlers say, "omg not them guys, they hit it again), It was fairly fast and furious(30 to 60 minutes). So this wasn't a 100% lock you'd make money. Get snapped off and it's doubtful you'd be ahead.
It was tricky figuring out when to jump on, because it was almost impossible to coordinate and lock up all the machines. Also the more people you had, the less you made. You had a better chance to hit it, however paying people or splitting with more partners cut into profits.
If you started to low others might jump in and steal some value, jump in to late and you lose machines and get cut down to one seat. If you didn't leave any seats available you could pisse off ploppies and hustlers, and risked complaints. Friday night was a bitch. 4am monday morning and you were probably fine, 2 guys was enough.
This was all going on at the same time that hey had the good countable Blackjack Blitz, so it was easy to keep an eye on the SDDM while playing the BJB.
The Super Diamond shaft didn't last long, but that's probably a good thing, because that probably helped not getting spotted on the BJB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aciYrBIAKS4
This is another link that I can't get to work. If you google "lady of fortune on odyssey slot machine- you tube" you can get a look at the game. The video runs 1 minute 18 seconds. If you stop the video at 2 seconds you can see the green circle in the middle where it says "BONUS ROUND." There are actually 12 icons in this circle. The icons start out blank. When you are playing the game a green light moves around this circle and stops randomly on an icon. It will then turn that icon green. Collect all 12 icons and you go into a bonus round where the average bonus is about 60 coins.
My standard play on this game was to spin it off when I found 7 or more icons already filled in. If you stop the video at 1 minute 15 seconds you can see that the green circle came back blank after the bonus round was over.
The Odyssey machines are a rare collector's item now. Silicon Gaming, the manufacturer, failed maybe 4 or five years after these machines first appeared. I don't know the exact reason why but from what I read the general reason was they tried to get to big to fast. IGT bought out Silicon Gaming and the machines quickly disappeared from the casinos. Googling around I discovered that IGT bought these machines back from the casinos and had them destroyed.
The very last one I seen anywhere was in Hooter's.
http://www.californiaslots.com/models.php?model=Odyssey
Okay, the link works. In the picture you can actually see several exploitable games, Fort Knox, Buccaneer Gold, Vacation, Riddle of the Sphinx, and Phantom Belle (This game is better known as Bonus Playoff).
In this post I'm going to explain the Phantom Belle (bonus playoff) game. This is an example of an accumulator video poker game. You can click on the image to blow it up and get a better view.
The payscale for this game is 8/5 Jacks where Two Pair pays even money, 84.45%. And you can see on the left just above the dealt hand it says "5th Coin Bonus" and the number 95. That means there is 95 coins in the bank. That meter starts at 75 coins. With every 80 coin in, 16 hands, 5 more coins are added to the bank. This is equivalent to a 6.25% progressive meter.
Occasionally, when you hit the deal button a "Bonus Playoff Card" will appear in the hand. It will then remove itself to above where it says "5th Coin Bonus." Then you are dealt one more card and you complete your hand. At that point you go to a different screen where one of three characters, the riverboat captain, the dance hall girl, or the riverboat gambler will appear. Whichever one appears will challenge you to one hand of five-card draw poker winner take all for the coins in the meter. If you lose the hand the coins remain and you have to keep playing until you catch the Bonus Playoff Card again to get another chance to win the coins.
When I first started playing this game I had two problems.
First problem, I had no idea how often the Bonus Playoff Card appeared. So I started playing high numbers of coins in the bank, 300 or higher....and did an empirical. I used my slot card to document how many games I played and how many times I caught the Bonus Playoff Card. With a big enough sample space I put the number at 142 games.
Second problem, in the bonus round, I had no idea how to play optimum strategy for five-card draw, one hand winner take all. But I figured the character I was playing did so I mimicked how they played. They never drew more than 3 cards. The pair and higher hands were no brainers. The crux of the matter was how to play the no pair hands. Half the hands you are dealt will be no pair. When the character would draw cards, like say they draw three cards; if the first, third and fifth cards disappeared from their hands and were replaced, when they rolled their hand over I could see what the second and fourth cards were that they held. With their no pair hands they were holding the two highest cards. So I mimicked that strategy. By mimicking them I got my batting average in the bonus round up to 50%.
So now the math of the game. And this is just my math, not the math of the manufacturer. More on that later.
The base game was 84.45%.
Catching the bonus playoff card every 142 games , and only winning the the bonus game 50% of the time, meant I had to play an average of 284 games to win the coins in the bank. The 75 coins that are in the bank at reset represents 15 bets.
15/288 = 5.2%
So with the 84.45% base game, plus 5.2%, plus the 6.25% meter build, the overall payback was 95.9%. A 4.1% deficit.
288 X 4.1% =11.88 so I needed 12 extra bets in the meter to be at breakeven. That would be 135 coins. But that number includes the meter. To get a 6% edge I needed 220 coins in the bank. And that became my playable number.
One of the drawbacks to the game was it played super slow. It was all you could do to get out 500 games an hour. That's why I wanted such a big edge. At 220 coins in the bank it was an average $40 earn for about 40 minutes work.
This game also came in 9/6 Jacks where Two Pair payed even money. But the only places I ever seen them was at Slots a' Fun and NYNY. At the time the Odyssey machines were all over Nevada, Vegas, Laughlin, Reno, Tahoe. A guy got a lot of plays.
If you google "odyssey slot machine phantom belle poker bonus round" you can watch a short video of the bonus round being played against a riverboat character.
In Charles Lund's Robbing the One Armed Bandits he said the frequency on the bonus playoff card was 133 and the riverboat charcter played perfect strategy but I have no idea how or where he got that information. If that is true I was playing the game stronger than I thought.
I promised someone I would write about Times Pay but first I'm gonna write about Mystery Bonus as the two games work similarly. I would like to say I figured these two games out all on my own....but I actually had a little help. There was a Sycuan poker dealer that spent him off days playing the Visiions in Laughlin. He was trying to convince the Sycuan casino manager to put Visions in Sycuan.
One day he handed me some paperwork and asked me to pick out some games to be installed at Sycuan. I didn't know exactly what they were because I had never seen anything like it before. I think they may have been par sheets. They had a range of chips that ran from the high eighties to about 97%. They gave the odds on certain hits and some general math on the games. It was from this paperwork that I learned exactly how Mystery Bonus and Times Pay worked.
I advised the guy to have a lot of Mystery Bonus and Times Pay installed as not only would the tourist/ploppies not know how they worked but a lot of hustlers wouldn't be able to fully figure them out either.
With some of the Vision Series IGT didn't invent a totally new game but instead took some of their standard games and installed a bonus feature. I couldn't fine a Mystery Bonus picture online. They came in several different games and configurations of bonuses. The particular dollar denom machine I'm going to write about was in the Ramada Express/Laughlin (now Tropicana Express). It was a Five Times Pay machine:
http://www.ohiogaming.com/fivetimespayslotmachine.htm
Basically, IGT took the payscale at the top of the machine and put it on the bottom. Then they installed an LED screen on the top that said MYSTERY BONUS. This is how the Ramada Express machine worked.
What is being banked in this game is coin in. Once the bonus is collected the LED screen flashes "WATCH FOR" in big green letters. It will do this for exactly 450 coin in every time. From that point the LED screen will flash "COMING SOON" in big red letters. The bonus of anywhere from 50 to 100 coins can be awarded anywhere from the first coin in to the 200th coin in. The average was 100 coin in. So the standard play on this machine was to spin it off if you found it flashing "COMING SOON."
I assigned an overall payback to the game of 90%. This was literally true for Ramada as they had the worst payback for dollar slots of any place on the river. It was why a dollar slot player easily got their room and meals comped at the Ramada.
It was an average 550 coin in to get an average 75 coin bonus. So the bonus represented 13.6% of the payback. So the line pays represented 76.4% of the payback. If you found the machine flashing "COMING SOON" the average coin in you were gonna do is 100 coin in to get an average 75 coin bonus.
76.4% + 75% meant you had a play worth at least 151.4%.
But there was another thing I did on this machine. Whenever I finished a play I would look past the third reel at the coin in meter and write it down. The other hustlers wouldn't play the game unless it was flashing "COMING SOON." I picked up a lot of plays where the LED screen was still flashing "WATCH FOR" but there had been over 400 coin in since the last time the bonus was paid.
Quote: mickeycrimm
The Odyssey machines are a rare collector's item now. Silicon Gaming, the manufacturer, failed maybe 4 or five years after these machines first appeared. I don't know the exact reason why but from what I read the general reason was they tried to get to big to fast. IGT bought out Silicon Gaming and the machines quickly disappeared from the casinos. Googling around I discovered that IGT bought these machines back from the casinos and had them destroyed.
The very last one I seen anywhere was in Hooter's.
I had an Odyssey mutli-game machine in my office but when I moved it was too big and heavy to take so I gave it to one of the movers. I wish I had it now.
I had done some work for Silicon Gaming when they were implementing their wide area progressive. They didn't have anyone at the time that new how to design them so they contracted me. They were pretty much bankrupt so IGT just bought them and made them disappear.
http://www.robertwinter.com/slot/odyssey/games_main.html
Notice the 4 play Joker Poker :) Full pay 100.6 version. They had that for months at Arizona Charlies with all kinds of promotions. I Believe I played odyssey 4 play before triple play. But I won't swear to that.Quote: BozHere is a great site with information on the Odyssey slots. Looks like this guy has done a lot of work with them and it helps show how some worked.
http://www.robertwinter.com/slot/odyssey/games_main.html
Quote: AxelWolfNotice the 4 play Joker Poker :) Full pay 100.6 version. They had that for months at Arizona Charlies with all kinds of promotions. I Believe I played odyssey 4 play before triple play. But I won't swear to that.
I can't remember what year it was. They had a December promotion at Fiesta where you could get cashback for your points. If you played on the multiplier days it worked out to .6%. They had the quarter Odyssey's with Four Play FPDW. There were two machines next to the Panda food place that racked double points. They weren't supposed to be doing that and I was the only one who knew about it so I was getting 1.2% cashback.
There was a drawing promotion going on at Arizona Charlie's. I went over to check it out. They had a bank of 8 Odysseys with the Four Play FPJW. All 8 machiness were taken up by just 4 players. I went back to Fiesta.
The phrase "Times Pay" was never used in the casino. It was what IGT called these games in the paperwork that the Sycuan poker dealer gave me. It was a case where they took some of their standard games and added a multiplier. The same as Mystery Bonus what was being banked - accumulated - was coin in.
The game I'm going to write about was located in the Flamingo/Laughlin, now Aquarious. It was a Double Diamond machine.
http://ohiogaming.com/doublediamondslotmachine.htm
When the game came out of double pay mode the LED screen flashed "WATCH FOR" in big green letters. It did this for 70 coin in. From that point the LED screen flashed "COMING SOON" in big red letters. The game could trigger into double pay mode from the first coin in to the 80th coin in. The average was 40. When it triggered into double pay mode you got 20 games at 2X pay.
So the standard play on this game was to spin it off if you found it flashing "COMING SOON."
Quote: BozHere is a great site with information on the Odyssey slots. Looks like this guy has done a lot of work with them and it helps show how some worked.
http://www.robertwinter.com/slot/odyssey/games_main.html
Thanks for the link, Boz. If you click on Buccaneer Gold then click on Bonus Game you can scroll down and see how this game worked. It was a small win if you found 3 daggers banked and a big win in you found 4 daggers banked. At the bottom of the page you can see the bonus range from 45 coins to 165 coins.
Sorry but I needed 2 Machines.Quote: mickeycrimmAll 8 machiness were taken up by just 4 players.
Quote: AxelWolfSorry but I needed 2 Machines.
You were the first one I thought of when Mickey posted that.
Quote: AxelWolfSorry but I needed 2 Machines.
Yes, I know. LOL! Even though it was four play and you were betting $5 per deal it was all you could do to get out a $2000 wager an hour on one machine.
Temperature's Rising is an example of COIN-OUT being banked-accumulated. It was another example of IGT taking some of their standard games and installing a bonus feature. I couldn't find a picture of a Termperature's Rising online. But I did find a picture of one of the games they turned into a Temperature's Rising.
http://www.ohiogaming.com/igttentimespay.htm
The particular machine I'm going to write about was found in the Ramada Express/Laughlin. IGT took this Ten Times Pay game, removed the payscale to the bottom of the machine, then installed an LED screen with a temperature gauge on it that ran from 0 degrees to 600 degrees.
I normally played this game betting just one coin at a time. The only cut in the payscale for doing this is on the top line hit, and since that top line hit is in the hundred of thousands, oddwise, I wasn't giving up much percentage wise, to get a better average on the line pays by making twice the spins per play.
As you can see on the one coin payscale, the line pays start at one cherry, two cherries, mixed bars, three cherries, single bars, etc.
When you are playing the game and hit one cherry it puts 2 degrees in the termperature gauge. Hit 2 cherries or mixed bars and it will put 5 degrees in the temperature gauge. Hit a Ten Times Pay Symbol and a cherry and it will put 20 coins in the temperature gauge, Hit Ten Times Pay-Ten Time Pay-Cherry and it will put 200 degrees in the temperature gauge, etc. In other words, the temperature gauge is advanced by coin-out.
When you get the temperature gauge up to 600 degrees you are awarded a 100 coin bonus. I figured the machine at 90% overall payback. You have to do 600 coin-out to the 100 coin bonus. And that would be a total of 700 coin-out.
700 coin out divided by 777 coin in would be 90%. So 100 coin out divided by 777 meant the 100 coin bonus was worth 13% of the payback. So the line pays represented 77%.
I started out playing this game when I found the temperature gauge at 500 degrees or higher and eventually dropped my number down to 400 degrees. I figured it at about a 27% advantage at that point.
200 coin out would cost me an average of $46.
So it was an average $56 earn at that point. But that came with a lot of variance. Most of the plays were either small winners or small losers when you started at 400 degrees. The big wins came when I hit the multiplier pays.
Quote: mickeycrimmTEMPERATURE'S RISING
Temperature's Rising is an example of COIN-OUT being banked-accumulated. It was another example of IGT taking some of their standard games and installing a bonus feature. I couldn't find a picture of a Termperature's Rising online. But I did find a picture of one of the games they turned into a Temperature's Rising.
http://www.ohiogaming.com/igttentimespay.htm
The particular machine I'm going to write about was found in the Ramada Express/Laughlin. IGT took this Ten Times Pay game, removed the payscale to the bottom of the machine, then installed an LED screen with a temperature gauge on it that ran from 0 degrees to 600 degrees.
I normally played this game betting just one coin at a time. The only cut in the payscale for doing this is on the top line hit, and since that top line hit is in the hundred of thousands, oddwise, I wasn't giving up much percentage wise, to get a better average on the line pays by making twice the spins per play.
As you can see on the one coin payscale, the line pays start at one cherry, two cherries, mixed bars, three cherries, single bars, etc.
When you are playing the game and hit one cherry it puts 2 degrees in the termperature gauge. Hit 2 cherries or mixed bars and it will put 5 degrees in the temperature gauge. Hit a Ten Times Pay Symbol and a cherry and it will put 20 coins in the temperature gauge, Hit Ten Times Pay-Ten Time Pay-Cherry and it will put 200 degrees in the temperature gauge, etc. In other words, the temperature gauge is advanced by coin-out.
When you get the temperature gauge up to 600 degrees you are awarded a 100 coin bonus. I figured the machine at 90% overall payback. You have to do 600 coin-out to the 100 coin bonus. And that would be a total of 700 coin-out.
700 coin out divided by 777 coin in would be 90%. So 100 coin out divided by 777 meant the 100 coin bonus was worth 13% of the payback. So the line pays represented 77%.
I started out playing this game when I found the temperature gauge at 500 degrees or higher and eventually dropped my number down to 400 degrees. I figured it at about a 27% advantage at that point.
200 coin out would cost me an average of $46.
200 X the 23% drop = $46.
So it was an average $56 earn at that point. But that came with a lot of variance. Most of the plays were either small winners or small losers when you started at 400 degrees. The big wins came when I hit the multiplier pays.
One more thing about this play. Something I had forgotten. If you made a big hit, like Ten Times Pay-Ten Times Pay-Double Bar, that payed $2000. It would wrap the temperature gauge around 4 times and you actually got payed $2400.
http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=wild-cherry-pie&page=detail&id=7783
This is the original Wild Cherry Pie making its debut in 1997. The one in the picture is the 3 coin version. The game also came in a 2 coin version.
On the LED screen at the top you can see the cherry pie that is partly filled with cherries. And on its lower left you can see a BASKET. The nine positions on the reels, above the line, on the line, and below the line of each reel, corresponds to the nine sections of the cherry pie.
The pie starts out empty. In the picture you can see the Wild Cherry symbol on the line of the second reel. This symbol is on all three reels. When the Wild Cherry symbol lands in the screen it will put cherries into the pie on the LED screen, depending on where the cherry symbol landed. If it lands above the line on the first reel it will put cherries into the top left section of the cherry pie. How many cherries it puts there depends on how many coins you are betting. Bet one coin and it will put one cherry in the section, bet two coins it will put two cherries in, bet three coins it will put three cherries in.
The other reels work the same way. The object is to fill up the pie and get a bonus from 20 to 200 coins. Average bonus of about 60 coins. Sooner or later you are going to wind up with just one section that needs cherries. When any section of the Pie is filled with cherries and a Wild Cherry symbol lands in the screen, and corresponds to that section it puts coins in the BASKET. The number of coins depends on how many coins you were betting. Betting 1 coin it will put 2 coins in the basket, betting 2 coins it will put 4 coins in the basket, betting 3 coins it will put 6 coins in the basket. So when you fill the pie up you are getting 2 bonuses, the coins in the basket plus the random bonus between 20 and 200 coins.
If you walk up to this machine and find it 3 or four cherries to go and 50 or sixty coins in the basket, grab a seat. You are going to book a nice win.
testing the link
http://imgur.com/WP0KA1Q
It has opened my eyes and exposed me to a world I only suspected existed. Great thread!
Quote: petroglyphMickey, thanks for taking the time and sharing this with the board.
It has opened my eyes and exposed me to a world I only suspected existed. Great thread!
Thanks, Petro. And I've finally figured out how to move a picture from my phone to my laptop to an internet forum. I'm pretty computer stupid but imgur.com made it easy.
http://imgur.com/WP0KA1Q
http://imgur.com/7YhQwkk
Wild Cherry Bonus Pie and Diamond Thief are the exact same games, they just have different themes. So I'll explain how Wild Cherry Bonus Pie works. This is a second generation Vision game based on the original Wild Cherry Bonus Pie. The game is designed so that the Cherry Pie on the LED screen never comes back blank.
You can see in the picture that the Pie is almost filled. One section needs 4 cherries and another section needs 2 cherries. I might spin this play off depending on what I knew about the machine. More on that later.
You can see the BASKET to the left of the Pie. And on the lower left of the Pie you can see the Small Pie that is mostly empty. The Cherries go into the Pie the same was as in the original version. When a Cherry symbol lands in the screen, depending on where it lands it will put a cherry or cherries into that section of the pie, depending on how many coins you are betting.
But in this version, when a section is filled in the big pie, coins don't automatically go into the BASKET. Instead the cherries go into the corresponding section of the small pie. Once that section of the small pie is filled, then the coins will go into the BASKET whenever a cherry symbol land in the screen for that section.
Sooner or later you are going to wind up with all of the sections of the Big Pie filled except one. And when you fill that section you get all the coins in the basket plus a bonus between 40 and 500 coins, with the average being about 100 coins.
Once you collect the bonuses the Small Pie then becomes the Big Pie for the next round. So the Big Pie never comes back empty. But there will always be a section that needs at least 6 cherries to fill it because the last section of the big pie you filled, you couldn't have put any cherries into the corresponding section of the small pie.
So just walking up to this machine and seeing the Pie mostly filled is not good enough to put a play down. You have to know a little more than that. I said earlier that the Wild Cherry Bonus Pie in the picture had only two sections left to fill, 4 cherries in one section and 2 cherries in the other section--
I tracked the coin-in/coin-out on these machines. You could look past the third reel and see those meters. And I tracked them long term. If the meters showed 93% payback I would spin the play off in the picture, with no coins in the BASKET, no problem. But if it showed something like 88% payback then I would have to have a little closer play unless I found about 50 coins in the basket.
I knew something about the handpays on these dollar machines. The only hand pays were the top line hit, and catching 3 Cherry symbols in the screen with a two coin bet. The paperwork I got from the Sycaun poker dealer showed the odds of the top line hit, which is catching the 3 Cherry symbols on the lines:
72 X 72 X 72 = 373,248, so the top line hit only represented about .5% of the payback.
The other handpay, catching cherries in the screen when a person was betting two coins I put the frequency at:
24 X 24 X 24 = 13,824, so this hit represented less than 2% of the payback.
So the coin-in/coin-out meters were a good guide to use on these machines.
Now this is an easy machine to play. folks, all you have to do is kecht them drunk. Now then little girls gon' getaway.
Quote: mickeycrimmI decided to put this in this thread and not the other. If some of you badd asses want to come around I will show you how to be a badd ass. I'll knock your balls cleen up into your teeth. You either come to me in peace, or I will knock your ass clean into next week.
How is the Black Velvet going down Mickey? I must say that every one of your posts is either great information or great humor. I always look forward to reading anything you post.
Quote: DRichHow is the Black Velvet going down Mickey? I must say that every one of your posts is either great information or great humor. I always look forward to reading anything you post.
Well, I'm all sick, sober, and sorry, after my New Year's drinking binge, Rich. As you can tell, my IQ goes up about ten points with every shot, and I go from being reasonably intelligent....to the world's foremost authority....on any subject. And I also get ten foot tall and bullet proof. But now I'm back on the straight and narrow, and just being mild mannered Mickey Crimm. Hopefully, I can keep it that way for a while. I enjoyed the football games on New Year's Day, hangover and all. I'm now looking forward to the NFL games today and tomorrow....and then it's road trip time. And the whole thing is going to be booze free.
This is the game that pulled me out of my train riding, thumb bumming, homeless drifter lifestyle:
http://www.pinrepair.com/slots/wms/pigbank.htm
I had been struggling in gambling for 4 years mostly playing low-limit poker. But after discovering this game in October 1996, I took off like a rocket. That's because in Laughlin I was making $200 to $300 a day on this game.
In the picture you can see the dotmation screen with the piggy bank and 27 coins in it. The bank starts at 10 coins and more coins were added when you spun blanks on all three reels. Betting one coin it would put one coin in the bank, betting two coins it would put 2 coins in the bank. Tourist ploppies would walk away from these machines leaving 30,40,50,60 and even higher amounts of coins in the bank. I would simply come in behind them and bet one coin at a time until I broke the bank.
You can partially see the break the bank symbol on the third reel in the picture. Through empirical study I put the frequency of catching blanks at 11 spins, the frequency of breaking the bank at 90 spins, and the cost to break the bank at 18 coins.
Someone did a breakdown and wrote an article about PB. Most people felt 20 was the min number depending on the location.Quote: mickeycrimmPIGGY BANKIN'
This is the game that pulled me out of my train riding, thumb bumming, homeless drifter lifestyle:
http://www.pinrepair.com/slots/wms/pigbank.htm
I had been struggling in gambling for 4 years mostly playing low-limit poker. But after discovering this game in October 1996, I took off like a rocket. That's because in Laughlin I was making $200 to $300 a day on this game.
In the picture you can see the dotmation screen with the piggy bank and 27 coins in it. The bank starts at 10 coins and more coins were added when you spun blanks on all three reels. Betting one coin it would put one coin in the bank, betting two coins it would put 2 coins in the bank. Tourist ploppies would walk away from these machines leaving 30,40,50,60 and even higher amounts of coins in the bank. I would simply come in behind them and bet one coin at a time until I broke the bank.
You can partially see the break the bank symbol on the third reel in the picture. Through empirical study I put the frequency of catching blanks at 11 spins, the frequency of breaking the bank at 90 spins, and the cost to break the bank at 18 coins.
compitition eventuality became a nightmare once that article hit, as always. Most guys couldn't afford to take low numbers. So you find the best place to play. Start playing evry machine at 18 for a few days. Rumors get out "some idiot dosent know what he is doing, hes playing at bad numbers, he will be broke soon, and you cant find any good plays there. "
Once the compitition leaves, you would have the place to yourself for a while.
Pigs were in KC before Vegas they sat vacant in the 70 coin range. For weeks they sat in Circus Circus not a hustler in site at 40 though 80 coins.
Quote: AxelWolfSomeone did a breakdown and wrote an article about PB. Most people felt 20 was the min number depending on the location.
compitition eventuality became a nightmare once that article hit, as always. Most guys couldn't afford to take low numbers. So you find the best place to play. Start playing evry machine at 18 for a few days. Rumors get out "some idiot dosent know what he is doing, hes playing at bad numbers, he will be broke soon, and you cant find any good plays there. "
Once the compitition leaves, you would have the place to yourself for a while.
Pigs were in KC before Vegas they sat vacant in the 70 coin range. For weeks they sat in Circus Circus not a hustler in site at 40 though 80 coins.
I can't remember where I got the information but someone once told me there were three chips for the game, 89%, 92% and 93%.
I remember the fierce competition on the strip. There was a guy in Treasure Island who was paid $6 an hour and 10% of the earn to sit at that bank of dollar pigs all day. I just thought that was dumb as hell. You didn't need hardly any bankroll at all to play the game. I seen a girl in several places scouting the numbers then having a floor person shut the machine down for her. Some guy would eventually come along, have them turn the machine back on, and spin it off.
The strip was practically all dollar denom. It was around Christmas 1996 when I walked into Circus Circus and the pig machines were shut down. I got back on the bus and went downtown. I walked into the Horseshoe and they were shut down there too. So I go over to the Nugget....and they were shut down there too. Holy Christ! What the hell's going on?
I got down on one of the machines looking for the name of the manufacturer. Williams. I grabbed a phone book and found their number. I gave them a call. The lady told me Williams was being sued by IGT for violating their Telnaes patent and they had a court order to remove the machines. She said Williams was scrambling for an injunction.
Practically all the dollar pigs disappeared out of Vegas. I went back down to Laughlin and was surprised to find that they had survived in many places. I only lost the Belle, Edgewater and Ramada Express. And Ramada eventually put them back in.
My only reason for playing pigs below 30 coins was to stifle competition.
To be fair the science isn't exact. You know there's an advantage however you can't always give exact numbers.Quote: mickeycrimmWhere the hell are you, Alan Mendelsen? Explain to us all how my science is a bad science. What? Are you hiding under your desk? Thats where I figure you are
Quote: AxelWolfTo be fair the science isn't exact. You know there's an advantage however you can't always give exact numbers.
Who cares about a point or two when you ate working such a big edge?
I agree with that I don't need to know my exact edge or exactly how it works as long as the money keeps getting added to my pocket. When you see certain situations you know it's an advantage there's no need to run back and calculate evrything.Quote: mickeycrimmWho cares about a point or two when you ate working such a big edge?
When I first started playing Flush attack I had no clue what the edge was I didn't have a computer, I didn't know the odds, I didn't read anything about VP. It was obvious when the bonus round was going you had a huge advantage.
Quote: mickeycrimmWhere the hell are you, Alan Mendelsen? Explain to us all how my science is a bad science. What? Are you hiding under your desk? Thats where I figure you are
mickey, mickey. If Alan didn't want to engage on his own board (as you already told us), why are you using this one to taunt him? Don't go there.
Quote: beachbumbabsmickey, mickey. If Alan didn't want to engage on his own board (as you already told us), why are you using this one to taunt him? Don't go there.
Babs, he did engage. He explained to his forum members what an idiot I am and then he 86'ed me so I couldn't give a respone over nothing more than my explanation of how accumulator slots work. Let's take it to a higher level. Let's let the WoV'ers decide .
Quote: mickeycrimmBabs, he did engage. He explained to his forum members what an idiot I am and then he 86'ed me so I couldn't give a respone over nothing more than my explanation of how accumulator slots work. Let's take it to a higher level. Let's let the WoV'ers decide .
I could be compelled to agree with you in exchange for a Montana invite.
Seriously, though, of course you know what you're talking about. Any accusation to the contrary doesn't merit the time you would spend arguing against it.
Quote: mickeycrimmWho cares about a point or two when you ate working such a big edge?
Depends on where you are getting the edge, bankroll, etc.
3% edge on 4oak promos? I won't leave the machine even if it's some exotic video poker variant.
5% edge on progressive royals? I might take a seat if it was within bankroll requirements and I will play till it goes down.
9% edge on a top pay on a 10x10x10 slot that plays extremely slow? Hmmm.....
I prefer low cycle pays to see my advantage. In the beginning I was suckered into high progressive royals but didn't realize the 40k~ hand cycle to realize the profits.
Quote: djatcDepends on where you are getting the edge, bankroll, etc.
3% edge on 4oak promos? I won't leave the machine even if it's some exotic video poker variant.
5% edge on progressive royals? I might take a seat if it was within bankroll requirements and I will play till it goes down.
9% edge on a top pay on a 10x10x10 slot that plays extremely slow? Hmmm.....
I prefer low cycle pays to see my advantage. In the beginning I was suckered into high progressive royals but didn't realize the 40k~ hand cycle to realize the profits.
Of, course, I agree with you on working smaller edges like this. You need to be much more precise. But I was working much bigger edges on the accumulators like the IGT Vision Series. The edge could be 20%, 30%, 40% and higher. In these case my math is an approximation since I don't know the exact payback percentage of the overall game so I have to make an estimation....like 90%, and start from there on doing the math of the game.
Quote: Mission146I could be compelled to agree with you in exchange for a Montana invite.
Seriously, though, of course you know what you're talking about. Any accusation to the contrary doesn't merit the time you would spend arguing against it.
Okay, you have a Montana invite. I think I'm going to do my best to lay off of Alan now. It only really bothers me when I've been drinking. An analogy of what really bothered me about the whole thing was when I once listened to Jerry Fallwell difute global warning. GW is a very confusing issue and I'm not a scientist so I still don't know what to make of it. But neither did Jerry Fallwell, he was just a preacher, not a scientist. But his words carried weight in the Christian World and I'm sure many took his tact after his statements. That's what irks me. People with great stature making wrong-headed comments about things they know nothing about can be very damaging to the unknowing.
Quote: mickeycrimmOf, course, I agree with you on working smaller edges like this. You need to be much more precise. But I was working much bigger edges on the accumulators like the IGT Vision Series. The edge could be 20%, 30%, 40% and higher. In these case my math is an approximation since I don't know the exact payback percentage of the overall game so I have to make an estimation....like 90%, and start from there on doing the math of the game.
I wish I was 20 years older could have exploited bigger edge stuff :(
I was like 10 years old in 95 so Im not sure I'd be allowed in a casino back then lol.
