Pre-paid debit cards
See article below
http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/vegas-slots-soon-will-accept-pre-paid-debit-cards
We have had similar systems in South Africa for a very long time. There are some good points, some bad, depends on your point of view.
See, casino's do indeed love you !
Quote: Buzzard'It would provide an enhanced level of safety and security.”
See, casino's do indeed love you !
It will only provide that IF the cards are used correctly. Normally you need a pin to secure your debit card, pre paid or other. The problem is there are a lot of very foolish people out there who don't secure their cards with pin numbers. As people steal TITO's now with disract and grab tactics, they will simply move on to the debit cards. The way they do it is so smooth and quick and unfortunately they only pick on the older females (who must be the biggest slot demographic anyway).
This will present many headaches even though it could be ok for revenue?
On the one hand, pre-paid debit cards would allow a customer to take a set amount of cash into the casino, without actually having to have said cash on that person. This would be great for people who are not able or willing to set up a credit line with a given casino. This is better secured and the funds can be easily traced in the event of theft or robbery. It would also allow a customer to track their spending habits easier as well as set limits (most probably wouldn't but it's easier to do so with a card).
On the other hand, loading a pre-paid debit card comes with fees, many of which are worse than ATM fees. It would also require the PIN information to be out there, and in the unlikely event of a security breach, this could result in funds being swiped off in mere seconds. Having cash on hand also gives gamblers a feeling of what they have vs. a pre-paid debit card which would easily be spent.
I can go either way on this issue, but in the long run, I don't think the benefits will greatly outweigh the drawbacks.
Does the debit card remain in the machine ? Can you just load $20 into machine and retrieve the card ?
Bigger problem is you don't need a pin lots of places.
Sightline would place a message about problem gambling visible to players when they load funds onto the card. !
See, they really do care.
Quote: BuzzardWait a minute. I can prove the casino's and debit card processor's love you .
Sightline would place a message about problem gambling visible to players when they load funds onto the card. !
See, they really do care.
If they really cared then they wouldn't have suggested any changes in the first place. They aren't suggesting the changes in order to make the gaming world a better place, they are doing it to make money......being a "responsible corporate entity" is only a very small part of the con :)
Quote: BuzzardBut Tom they send me free money, feed me, will even house me. What am I missing ?
....the point methinks :)
You are a funny guy buzz :)
NOTE MISSION : " Feces" is a medical term and should be allowed !
Here's how I'm hoping that it would work: Keep my whole bankroll on a card. Buy chips with the card. Cash out chips that get loaded back to the card. Easily transfer money (in either direction) between my bank account and the card, online.
It's better than what I do now. Going to a new casino? My choices are, set up a line of credit with the casino, or send them a wire transfer in advance, or get a cashier's check before I leave and send them a copy of it before I get there, or travel with far more cash than I'm comfortable carrying, especially through security.
Having it all on one card would make things much, much simpler.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAs someone who likes to gamble and hates to carry cash, this would be great for me.
Here's how I'm hoping that it would work: Keep my whole bankroll on a card. Buy chips with the card. Cash out chips that get loaded back to the card. Easily transfer money (in either direction) between my bank account and the card, online.
It's better than what I do now. Going to a new casino? My choices are, set up a line of credit with the casino, or send them a wire transfer in advance, or get a cashier's check before I leave and send them a copy of it before I get there, or travel with far more cash than I'm comfortable carrying, especially through security.
Having it all on one card would make things much, much simpler.
I absolutely agree and that is why I think this will help with revenue. It is, for now however only for use on slot machines.
In South Africa your money was pre-loaded on your players card with which you can play slots, your jackpots get deposited on there too AND you can go to any table game, give them your card and via the casino CMS they can remove money from your card and give you chips in return. A main difference here is that you could not use the casino card outside like you can this pre-paid debit card.
There are some other issues, apart from security obviously that would need addressing like Title 31 issues. I'm sure the government will want to make sure no money laundering will be taking place through these cards......which will be difficult to monitor.
Quote: Tiltpoul
Welcome back!
Quote: AcesAndEightsWelcome back!
Seriously! I just did a triple take on that one. I thought this was a new thread, then I saw Tilt's post and thought it was old. Then I looked at the timestamp 3 times. lol.
These debit cards work almost flawlessly at Turning Stone (at least, in my experience). But, I've lost my TR card 4 times in the past 2 weeks. I'm a little scared what'd happen if there was value on the card that I left in a machine and walked off...
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAs someone who likes to gamble and hates to carry cash, this would be great for me.
Here's how I'm hoping that it would work: Keep my whole bankroll on a card. Buy chips with the card. Cash out chips that get loaded back to the card. Easily transfer money (in either direction) between my bank account and the card, online.
It's better than what I do now. Going to a new casino? My choices are, set up a line of credit with the casino, or send them a wire transfer in advance, or get a cashier's check before I leave and send them a copy of it before I get there, or travel with far more cash than I'm comfortable carrying, especially through security.
Having it all on one card would make things much, much simpler.
I agree, it would be great if this would work with table games and chips too! But only if it were anonymous....
Unfortunately,
Quote: TomspurI absolutely agree and that is why I think this will help with revenue. It is, for now however only for use on slot machines.
Womp womp.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI agree, it would be great if this would work with table games and chips too! But only if it were anonymous....
I'm not going for anonymity. I've taken another approach. For better or for worse...
Quote:Unfortunately,
Womp womp.
I wonder if this will ever change.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm not going for anonymity. I've taken another approach. For better or for worse...
That's cool, I've taken the anonymous approach. But it's a give and take...getting the comps AND the money would be nice.
Quote:I wonder if this will ever change.
I certainly hope it does. I still engage in -EV gambling from time to time, and a cash card would make the craps table much easier, that's for sure.
You would be SOL if you lost them. Like RDW mentioned playing at Turning Stone, I have too. The ones which are anonymous, the PIN is on the card and I've heard many stories of people also losing the free play cards with no recourse.Quote: AxelWolfI like this idea, but only if they are disposable cards, like gift cards with no names attached to them. One I could use anywhere and no reoccurring monthly maintenance fee.I would love if it also tracked all the details of your sessions, wins losses time date machine. it would be great if You and you could look up this information online.
Come to think of it, maybe that's why they wanted to push these to have the same free play rules. There if you get $20 free play, you can only cash out anything more than whatever is above the $20, then the $20 is forfeited.
Your player's card, you can lose and the money is safe as long as nobody knows your PIN.
I'm SOL when i lose slot tickets as well. Certainly I would like to have a chance to register (if I want to) the card if i lose it and the money still remains since my pin would be needed to get the money off.Quote: onenickelmiracleYou would be SOL if you lost them. Like RDW mentioned playing at Turning Stone, I have too. The ones which are anonymous, the PIN is on the card and I've heard many stories of people also losing the free play cards with no recourse.
Come to think of it, maybe that's why they wanted to push these to have the same free play rules. There if you get $20 free play, you can only cash out anything more than whatever is above the $20, then the $20 is forfeited.
Your player's card, you can lose and the money is safe as long as nobody knows your PIN.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm SOL when i lose slot tickets as well. Certainly I would like to have a chance to register (if I want to) the card if i lose it and the money still remains since my pin would be needed to get the money off.
That's exactly how we ran it in South Africa. There were two cards, one was a pre pay card that you had to buy on entering the casino (not protected by anything or anyone) but you could use your players club card which was a money card protected by your pin number. Even if you lose your players card, nobody could get at your money unless they have your pin.
Here in the US it seems like an outside payment provider is going to be handling the cards so if you lose yours perhaps your recourse will not be with the casino itself but rather the provider?
The part I can't see working well is the card remaining in the slot, because that's how they get left behind. You need to let your card get read, add money and log you in, then put it back in your wallet or whatever, like an ATM. So they would have to change the mechanism to something similar to the newest slots, where there's a countdown timer at zero balance that lets you dig out more money without losing a built-up balance, and otherwise tracks your play onto your account without the card in the slot. If you blow through the time, it's a simple matter to swipe your card again and re-register.
That would, of course, change some AP on slot loss rebates. But I bet they could come up with a better plan anyways than timing the card removal before a jackpot (sorry AP's).
As for the card in slot issue, I'm pretty sure the machine can be disabled until you have retrieved your card and replaced it with a players club card. That way you can stick it back into whatever holder or pocket before continuing your game.
The technology is there it simply has to be embraced and refined.
An impulse with a debit card... the money is gone.
An impulse with a credit card.. you pay interest and cash advance fees.
Quote: TomspurBabs, that system has been working for many a year already in a much less developed country, some would say :)
As for the card in slot issue, I'm pretty sure the machine can be disabled until you have retrieved your card and replaced it with a players club card. That way you can stick it back into whatever holder or pocket before continuing your game.
The technology is there it simply has to be embraced and refined.
I'm certain they can do it now. It's just not set up that way, either in allowing the card to be removed and staying signed in, or in combining the club id with a debit card. I just think it's a mistake to make you leave the card plugged in because it's too easy to walk away from it. So I'm suggesting they reprogram it, make it a swipe instead of a constant presence, if they're going to reprogram anyway to allow you to use a debit card directly.
You must be reading old Dancer stuff, That has already been dealt with a long time ago, In MOST cases the computer saves the last hand in play and adds it to your total no matter what. Some Slots Cards will remain in progress if you have money in the slot regardless.Quote: beachbumbabsI can see the cards working easily at the pit. The supe takes the card and slides it now, anyway. With a cash balance, it would be a simple thing for the player to say "10K" or "200" or whatever, the pit supe pushes a button, a slip prints (like a marker now), the player signs, the amount comes off the card immediately, and the dealer drops the slip and gives chips. Go to any kiosk and print a statement if you need a record of what you did that night/that month by pit.
The part I can't see working well is the card remaining in the slot, because that's how they get left behind. You need to let your card get read, add money and log you in, then put it back in your wallet or whatever, like an ATM. So they would have to change the mechanism to something similar to the newest slots, where there's a countdown timer at zero balance that lets you dig out more money without losing a built-up balance, and otherwise tracks your play onto your account without the card in the slot. If you blow through the time, it's a simple matter to swipe your card again and re-register.
That would, of course, change some AP on slot loss rebates. But I bet they could come up with a better plan anyways than timing the card removal before a jackpot (sorry AP's).
If you are talking about Revel this is not what was happening (lets not bring that back up, dead horse)
There may be exceptions so no need for corrections.
very few places even have loss rebates
They have this system in already in places, you download your credits on and off the machine no card needs to remain plugged in.Quote: beachbumbabsI'm certain they can do it now. It's just not set up that way, either in allowing the card to be removed and staying signed in, or in combining the club id with a debit card. I just think it's a mistake to make you leave the card plugged in because it's too easy to walk away from it. So I'm suggesting they reprogram it, make it a swipe instead of a constant presence, if they're going to reprogram anyway to allow you to use a debit card directly.
Like Axel, I had a free safe deposit box at the Horseshoe for years.
I use Western Union prepaid debit cards. They can carry up to a $5000 balance and you can have up to 5 cards. It costs mee $25 to load $4750 on a card, about half percent juice. Therd is no monthly maintenance fee and no charge to make purchases. However, I've never used them on an ATM so don't know.
I keep a small balance on one card to make online purchases. If I'm gonna get ripped off they ain't gonna get much.
I don't know how the cards would work in a casino.
Suze Orman has a petition on Change.org to get congress to pass a law requiring credit agencies to give credit ratings to those who use prepaid debit cards
Quote: mickeycrimmI'm a cash and carry kind of guy. I've never bought anything on credit my entire gambling career. I never wanted to be under pressure to perform. The consequence is that other than my living expences I am debt free.
Hi Mickey,
I'm also debt free, but credit cards just add convenience. I would rather have a piece of plastic in my pocket than tens of thousands in cash. And I'm not really "buying on credit" -- the money is in my bank account and I pay my balance in full when the statement arrives, so I'm not paying interest or anything.
Basically, when it comes down to it, I'd rather have the cash in the bank and the piece of plastic in my wallet than the cash in my pocket. If I lose cash, or get robbed, or whatever, I'm out of luck. If I lose the credit card I have no liability.
Also, since almost all places take credit cards, pretty much every price you see is jacked up by a few percent to make up for the swipe fees that the retailers pay the credit card companies. The credit card rewards that you get are just a partial kickback of those fees. Paying by cash or debit leaves that money out there. I get an average of about 2% cash back on all my purchases.... not using the card would be -EV.
Quote:Suze Orman has a petition on Change.org to get congress to pass a law requiring credit agencies to give credit ratings to those who use prepaid debit cards
That is ridiculous. Credit ratings are supposed to determine how likely you are to repay money that you have borrowed, based on your history of borrowing money. You are not borrowing money with a prepaid debit card, so how are they supposed to indicate how likely you are to pay off your debts?
Yeah, how likely is that ?
Quote: Buzzard" Easily transfer money (in either direction) between my bank account and the card, online."
Yeah, how likely is that ?
Pretty likely. If it functions like a bank account, I should be able to fund it with ACH transfers which are free and quick.
Quote: rdw4potusSeriously! I just did a triple take on that one. I thought this was a new thread, then I saw Tilt's post and thought it was old. Then I looked at the timestamp 3 times. lol.
Hey there! It's good to see you're still posting!
Has anyone been to Harrah's Metropolis? I'm pretty sure I saw a sign that said you could use your debit/credit card at the table games to get chips. I was there in the middle of the night for the Race for Rewards promotion, so I may have been groggy, but I'm pretty sure that's what it said.
Quote: BuzzardIf you think the casino will allow you to transfer money from their card to a bank account, expect to be very disappointed.
Buzz just to reiterate, these cards will not be the property of the casinos but rather of a cash card service provider. They will be the ones with whom you will have to deal with regards to loading and withdrawing. (If I read the article correctly that is)
