Slots Free Spins Features

I'm aware that the outcome of every slots spin is predetermined by the RNG at the instant the spin button is pressed. But does anyone know if that's the case when free spins are awarded? In other words, where, say, 10 free spins are won, are each of these genuine and truly random, or is the overall 10 spin payout already decided?

In slot games that I've been involved in designing, the free spins are random, just like the original, paid spin.

Given the knowledge of the virtual reel strip layout and the paytable, the expected value of n free spins can be calculated and incorporated into the theoretical return to player.

Some games do have different reel strips for free games, but either way, the math works.

Thanks Scooter, that's good to know. I was convinced they were predetermined.
What would happen then in the unlikely event that 2 free spins came up with a jackpot win? Would the overall win be 'capped' to one jackpot amount? I live in the UK and the maximum single spin win allowed on any casino slot machine is £4000.

Quote: ropey14

What would happen then in the unlikely event that 2 free spins came up with a jackpot win? Would the overall win be 'capped' to one jackpot amount? I live in the UK and the maximum single spin win allowed on any casino slot machine is £4000.

Staring at UK law for the last hour...I'm still not entirely sure. Ugh. Very few states in the US have prize limits, and one state I am quite familiar with on the law, Illinois, has a work around to the prize cap. In Illinois, riverboat casinos don't have a prize cap, but gaming machines in bars/restaurants are capped at $500 with a max $2 wager for a single "game cycle". The way they get around this is that for bonus games, the game usually awards you the amount of credits to make the spin for "free" during the bonus round. So in this case the max win per spin is still $500 each. I'm not sure if similar logic applies with UK law, however, because their details are much more vague.

Have you run across a slot machine that has free spins and offer the full prize amount (£4000) for a single win for a £2 wager? A 2000 for 1 win on a slot machine that also offers free games with that high of a wager is somewhat hard to find in the US currently.

Thanks again for your reply Scooter.

Yes, most machines here offer free spins. They're also all limited to a £4000 regular single spin maximum payout for a £2 stake. Common examples are, Cleopatra, Lucky Lady, Kitty Glitter etc.

I've only ever seen one £4000 single spin win (not me unfortunately) and I've never seen free spins award anything like that in total.

Just had a thought about the randomness of free spins. Many online slots offer free spins and, where there's an internet disconnection during that cycle, I've witnessed them simply showing the total win when the connection is restored (i.e. without showing the remaining spins cycle). That would seem to suggest that their overall result is predetermined?

I have a question about IGT, Ballys and other reputable slot machine manufactures in states like Washington. Are they class 3? or altered to class 2? Reason I ask is because all bonus rounds are predetermined whether or not its free spins, picking symbols or what ever it may be. It was to my understanding IGT only made one class of machine in the united states.

How I know they are predetermined is because some casinos use a money slot card for credit transactions on and off the slot machines. If on your last spin you enter a bonus round and pull your card out before you start or complete the bonus round, then stick the card into the machine next to it, a pending amount will show up that matches the amount you would have received during the bonus round.

Quote: ropey14

Just had a thought about the randomness of free spins. Many online slots offer free spins and, where there's an internet disconnection during that cycle, I've witnessed them simply showing the total win when the connection is restored (i.e. without showing the remaining spins cycle). That would seem to suggest that their overall result is predetermined?

RTG dose this all the time on the older type slots. It is supposed to restore the pending bonus round however sometimes it glitches and it just adds the credits.

Quote: AxelWolf

I have a question about IGT, Ballys and other reputable slot machine manufactures in states like Washington. Are they class 3? or altered to class 2? Reason I ask is because all bonus rounds are predetermined whether or not its free spins, picking symbols or what ever it may be. It was to my understanding IGT only made one class of machine in the united states.

How I know they are predetermined is because some casinos use a money slot card for credit transactions on and off the slot machines. If on your last spin you enter a bonus round and pull your card out before you start or complete the bonus round, then stick the card into the machine next to it, a pending amount will show up that matches the amount you would have received during the bonus round.

I can't speak for IGT, buy Bally makes Central-Server, Class II and Class III games.

Quote: Mission146

I can't speak for IGT, buy Bally makes Central-Server, Class II and Class III games.

I would love to know what IGT claim.

"Just had a thought about the randomness of free spins. Many online slots offer free spins and, where there's an internet disconnection during that cycle, I've witnessed them simply showing the total win when the connection is restored (i.e. without showing the remaining spins cycle). That would seem to suggest that their overall result is predetermined? "


They are probably doing what a casino would do if a machine malfunctioned, providing the average value of the remaining free spins (despite the signage on the machine that says machine malfunction voids pays). This is normally done by the casino contacting the game manufacturer. In class 2 games, it is not uncommon (but it is also not always the case) that the "free spin experience" is pulled from a predetermined set. Certain manufacturers have a bingo ball draw for each free spin. Also, it is not uncommon for games have a disclaimer in the help screen saying that jackpots can be won in the base game only, and not the free spins. More likely, is the results of your free spins were still played out, and tabulated on their server, and when your connection came back up, the results were displayed.

Quote: nmacgre

"Just had a thought about the randomness of free spins. Many online slots offer free spins and, where there's an internet disconnection during that cycle, I've witnessed them simply showing the total win when the connection is restored (i.e. without showing the remaining spins cycle). That would seem to suggest that their overall result is predetermined? "


They are probably doing what a casino would do if a machine malfunctioned, providing the average value of the remaining free spins .

If this was the case then every time this happened when you playing the same game for the same amount. You would get the same amount each time, this is not the case. It can be as low as a few dollars all the way up to hundreds of dollars. This happens frequently. If it was doing it like you explained it might be exploitable. If you didn't get anything on the first few spins and it looked as if you were going to get less then the average you could purposely disconnect in hopes you would be awarded the average.

This reminds me of something I have heard very few guys talk about.... one of the first online casinos mid to late 90's I played, I believe it was inter casino. While playing blackjack if you disconnected prior to making your decision it did not save your hand. It would simply refund your money and you could play a new hand.

Quote: AxelWolf

I would love to know what IGT claim.

I can specifically tell you that IGT makes both Class II and Class III versions of Texas Tea, Texas Tina, and many other slots. Some of the NA casinos here still set them side-by-side in a bank without identifying which is which. Which is why I categorically refuse to play slots in NA casinos, it makes me so angry. Don't really understand the Central-Server concept as separate from those two, so can't address that.

Quote: AxelWolf

I have a question about IGT, Ballys and other reputable slot machine manufactures in states like Washington. Are they class 3? or altered to class 2?

Washington tribal games are Class III (compacted and not bingo/Class II), but they are centrally-determined electronic pull-tabs. There are no non-tribal EGMs in Washington.
http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/tribal-lottery-system.aspx

I don't know if any casinos in WA are operating Class II games (which are also centrally-determined, but work differently), but there are no EGM games in WA that operate on standalone RNGs at all.

AxelWolf:
"If this was the case then every time this happened when you playing the same game for the same amount. You would get the same amount each time, this is not the case. It can be as low as a few dollars all the way up to hundreds of dollars. This happens frequently. If it was doing it like you explained it might be exploitable. If you didn't get anything on the first few spins and it looked as if you were going to get less then the average you could purposely disconnect in hopes you would be awarded the average.
This reminds me of something I have heard very few guys talk about.... one of the first online casinos mid to late 90's I played, I believe it was inter casino. While playing blackjack if you disconnected prior to making your decision it did not save your hand. It would simply refund your money and you could play a new hand."



When a machine malfunctions information about the bonus up until the point of crash is recorded in system recall. You are paid out the expected value of the remainder of the bonus, not the average value of the entire bonus. So if you had 10 free spins and the machine crashed on spin 3, you get paid the expected value of 7 free spins. So whether or not your first three spins were amazing, or they were garbage and you unplugged the machine, the malfunction payout is the same. Sorry, "quoting" isn't working in my browser.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I can specifically tell you that IGT makes both Class II and Class III versions of Texas Tea, Texas Tina, and many other slots. Some of the NA casinos here still set them side-by-side in a bank without identifying which is which. Which is why I categorically refuse to play slots in NA casinos, it makes me so angry. Don't really understand the Central-Server concept as separate from those two, so can't address that.

Yep. Ironically the first time I hit the top win on a slot game was on a class II Texas Tea machine. But it was clearly class II with the bingo card displayed. I also always chose a bingo card with 69 in a corner... haha. Do they not display the card in Florida?

As for how IGT handles "free spins" in class ii or free spins in an Internet crash, I have no idea.

Quote: Scooter77

In slot games that I've been involved in designing, the free spins are random, just like the original, paid spin.

The ones I design too.

Quote: Wizard

The ones I design too.

Wizard,

Is it not possible that you could have random free spins that are semi pre-determined? By which, I mean, could the RNG on 20 Free Spins run through and determine 20 combinations PRIOR to beginning to display the results to the player? If so, then it makes sense that the game would be able to pay the player what the result would have been on a malfunction because it is actually what the result already was, just not displayed.

Quote: tringlomane

Do they not display the card in Florida?

When I was there in 2007, they did display the card. I think I also saw that the player could print the bingo calls/card through the ticket printer.

Quote: Mission146

Wizard,

Is it not possible that you could have random free spins that are semi pre-determined? By which, I mean, could the RNG on 20 Free Spins run through and determine 20 combinations PRIOR to beginning to display the results to the player? If so, then it makes sense that the game would be able to pay the player what the result would have been on a malfunction because it is actually what the result already was, just not displayed.

Yes, that could be done and I believe it is usually done that way in Class II because the amount of win is determined by the Bingo not by the reels. Most of the reel games I have programmed are for Class III and each spin is independent and random. In most Class III jurisdictions a game that errors must be able to recover and continue after a reboot. I have never run into a Class III game in the field that didn't recover after getting an error in the bonus or free spins. Just last month I had an IGT G23 machine tilt on me during free spins. The tech just powered it down and when it came back up it continued from where it left off. That is one of the reasons most slot machines are designed as state machines.

Games that I made were designed to continue where they left off after an interruption, although...

Since we know that when you 'pull the handle' the result is randomly determined and the reels spinning and stopping are simply for entertainment, then it stands to reason that the free spin results could all be randomly produced at the beginning of the free spin feature. This would eliminate the need for a game restoration that picked up where you left off and played the rest of the spins (since they'd already been 'played' in the computer's 'mind').

I wouldn't choose this way of creating an online slot, but it might appear to be logical to others.

Quote: CrystalMath

When I was there in 2007, they did display the card. I think I also saw that the player could print the bingo calls/card through the ticket printer.

It is a pity that I did not start playing slot machines in 2007

Quote: Mission146

...a game that errors must be able to recover and continue after a reboot....during free spins...it continued from where it left off...

I have had that happen to me on a UK machine. I would guess it knows the reel positions and which spins it had already displayed (and paid) together with the various money meters, and writes the next spin to a hard disk before spinning the reels to the next result. Whether it knows the end result of the current series is interesting. You do see reference to a maximum number of free games so that may be because the program can't store more than (say) 255 spins; it's possible when you get a feature it picks one series from its library of possibles and just works its way though the free spins. I once had a free games series where the final payout (78p) didn't match up with the actual wins displayed (a multiple of 5p), so am guessing it had decided to pay 6x and constructed the series accordingly. Nowadays the series' payouts aren't whole multiples of the triggering wager and typically (in casinos) the multiples of 1p bet has gone.