Sex in the City

So I am trying to figure out how to calculate the return on the Sex in the City slot machine with the progressive. Basically I want to find the frequency of the progressive and cost to hit it. Since this game has multiple progressives it's kinda hard to know where to begin.

I understand that it costs $2 for a 4 screen pull, up to $6. Does it make sense to vary bets based on the bonuses?

Although I have no idea how to analyze slot machines, much less progressive ones and have an awful dread of what mathematical contortions I would have to go through with multiple progressives, I can tell you that the licensing rights would not be cheap and I'd therefore steer clear of anything that was so wildly popular with the public as to be able to command high licensing fees.

Quote: djatc

So I am trying to figure out how to calculate the return on the Sex in the City slot machine with the progressive. Basically I want to find the frequency of the progressive and cost to hit it. Since this game has multiple progressives it's kinda hard to know where to begin.

I understand that it costs $2 for a 4 screen pull, up to $6. Does it make sense to vary bets based on the bonuses?

I haven't played Sex & The City much, other than just to figure out what it is all about, it's definitely Bonus heavy...it doesn't take long to figure out that the Base Return sucks badly. I don't know anything about a four-screen pull, the game I played only has one screen. If you hit the Bonus, then there's a wheel and a spinner up top which either takes the player to a Bonus Game or lands on one of the five Progressives and pays immediately.

The first question is how often does it hit for Bonus Games. For that you could, "Deconstruct," the machine in much the same way that Wizard did with a few different machines, but that is going to be a tedious (and, in this case, costly) process. Even if you did that, you'd still have to figure out the hit frequency of the spinner with respect to the Bonus Games & Progressives, unless you want to assume that all slots are equally weighted, but I seriously doubt if they are.

Then, there's also calculating the Expected Return of all of the different Bonus Games, and I think that some Bonus Games had certain results that could actually result in one of those Progressives being hit, but that could be wrong, I haven't played S&TC in nearly a year or more.

In short, if you're looking for advantage points on those Progressives, my advice is to try a different machine. There are way too many variables, and even if this could be theoretically determined, you'd probably have to play until you hit Bonus Games some 1,000 times to have a reasonable enough sample to even see if the weighting for that spinner is equally distributed.

Also, even if you determine the advantage points, the Base Return on a penny licensed slot machine is going to be so abysmal, that you're not very likely to ever see those machines at an advantage. Bunch of work and money lost for nothing.

I am not a math expert, but I have played that game (longer than I should have to give it a chance to hit), and came away with the strong impression that it was one of the worst-playing messes I've ever wasted money on. There were so many losing combinations with so many symbols, I think they programmed it to only LOOK like it could do something, and they're making money hand over fist on the fondness for the show alone. IOW, what Mission said better above. lol...

Played it with my wife three times and never hit one bonus. It was awful. We always have terrible luck with the hangover machines too. Im not really a big fan of the 4 screen slots

Participation games like that are set to return about 88%, which is pretty low. Given so many progressives on the game, it is safe to assume that it almost never goes positive. My advice for advantage slot players is to look for games with guaranteed progressives and play them when they are close to the "must hit by" point.

DJ don't get discouraged to fast, certainly the smaller meters get to be positive at times. I have seen smart successful AP's playing them as well as a few hustlers. On some obscure website I seen some numbers posted but didn't really look to see how they arrived at them. someone on vpfree might be able to direct you to it. Perhaps there could be situations that warranted playing them. I do think your time is better off spent on other things.

If I may also add, a Search for "Quick Hits Platinum," on this website might prove helpful. What's really nice about those machines is that the probability for all five Progressives IS known as is the minimum base return even possible on those machines. Further, I even called Bally Technologies on one occasion and found that the money that gets added to the Progressive Meter is not reflected in the Base Pays, so there's that, as well.

My wife plays this game like a fiend and never hit the top progressive " Mr Big". I have observed it at the starting of $500 all the way up to over $1300. With the weak base payout and the need to bet $6 to guarantee any progressive, I agree to look elsewhere.

Quote: Boz

My wife plays this game like a fiend and never hit the top progressive " Mr Big". I have observed it at the starting of $500 all the way up to over $1300. With the weak base payout and the need to bet $6 to guarantee any progressive, I agree to look elsewhere.

Is that the case on the multi-screen machines? Like I said, I played once just to see how it worked, betting minimum, and I know I hit the lowest Progressive (Charlotte) at one point. That was a single-screen game, though, so they could be different.

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Quote: Wizard

Participation games like that are set to return about 88%, which is pretty low. Given so many progressives on the game, it is safe to assume that it almost never goes positive. My advice for advantage slot players is to look for games with guaranteed progressives and play them when they are close to the "must hit by" point.

Did that just this past weekend... had to hit by $1000. It was the highest in the bank at $810. $200 later, it was reset and I was happy :)

Quote: Mission146

If I may also add, a Search for "Quick Hits Platinum," on this website might prove helpful. What's really nice about those machines is that the probability for all five Progressives IS known as is the minimum base return even possible on those machines. Further, I even called Bally Technologies on one occasion and found that the money that gets added to the Progressive Meter is not reflected in the Base Pays, so there's that, as well.

I saw a QHP at the local racino where the five QH's was the same as the 6 QH's! (About $95.00). There was a guy with about $35 in the machine and he was *not* leaving until he hit it or busted out. He almost busted out but then hit it :(

Quote: teddys

I saw a QHP at the local racino where the five QH's was the same as the 6 QH's! (About $95.00). There was a guy with about $35 in the machine and he was *not* leaving until he hit it or busted out. He almost busted out but then hit it :(

Wow!!!

I've never seen it that high, just with that the machine was playing at over 120% ER!

Quote: Mission146

If I may also add, a Search for "Quick Hits Platinum," on this website might prove helpful. What's really nice about those machines is that the probability for all five Progressives IS known as is the minimum base return even possible on those machines. Further, I even called Bally Technologies on one occasion and found that the money that gets added to the Progressive Meter is not reflected in the Base Pays, so there's that, as well.

I read the thread (well skimmed and found this information is too complex to get it in one reading) and with this information I wanna be able to find good slots. Every now and then I like to roam around and try to find non-obvious advantage plays (such as my receiving extra poker chips then cashing out after one hand.... but not much of an advantage)

Quote: PlayYourCardsRight

Did that just this past weekend... had to hit by $1000. It was the highest in the bank at $810. $200 later, it was reset and I was happy :)

Was this a must hit by you played? If so I didn't realize $810 was a good number to play at. Am I missing something ?

Quote: Mission146

Is that the case on the multi-screen machines? Like I said, I played once just to see how it worked, betting minimum, and I know I hit the lowest Progressive (Charlotte) at one point. That was a single-screen game, though, so they could be different.

I am only familiar with the 4 screen one. Assuming you play all 4 screens it is either $2, $4 or $6. However if you play less than $6, you dont get all the picks for the Progressive if you spin it. $2 gets you 1 pick out of 3, etc. There are also other bonus games on the wheel that do not offer a progressive with them, however have wins above the progressive. My wife hit for over $960 on the dress bonus recently at Harrahs Philly with a $6 bet with almost a full screen of the correct symbol. This was far more than the "Mr Big" bonus at the time.

It had to hit by $1,000. I was up for the day, so decided to give it a shot.

Quote: PlayYourCardsRight

It had to hit by $1,000. I was up for the day, so decided to give it a shot.

Yes thus the term i used must hit by.

I assumed you were boasting of it being a good play and you then proceeded to hit it. I was under the assumption that would be a terrible number to get on it at. I could be totally wrong. I assume its reset is $500. Do you have information that $810 is a good number?

I never find anything that looks good on them machines, there are a few hustlers, the go off chasing type that jump on at -ev numbers. perhaps I'm missing something. I have talked to a few smart people who have played many at conservative numbers and keep detailed records and they are losing.

Yes, it reset to $500 and in the bank of machines, it was the only one that was over the $750 mark... there was absolutely no strategy whatsoever other than hoping it wanted to give me money. I played at the right time and it did.

Do you know what percentage was added to the pot or if not a set amount, how did the number increase?

Quote: djatc

So I am trying to figure out how to calculate the return on the Sex in the City slot machine with the progressive. Basically I want to find the frequency of the progressive and cost to hit it. Since this game has multiple progressives it's kinda hard to know where to begin.

I understand that it costs $2 for a 4 screen pull, up to $6. Does it make sense to vary bets based on the bonuses?

djatc, it's hard to walk by all those progressives and wonder how high they need to be... But, as many posters before me have stated, the base returns are usually low, and determining the expected frequencies can be costly if you must play long enough to deconstruct. Multiple progressives can be a good play - even if each meter rises at a relatively low rate, they still might add up quickly together.

If you haven't already, search for VP games with multiple meters. Quite often I see banks with multiple variants linked to the same Royal progressive, and some games will have only the Royal (deuces/jokers, super aces), others will have the Royal and the SF (job, bonus, db), and still more will have the Royal, the SF, and most or all of the 4ks metered up (ddb, sddb, tdb, etc).

Even an 8/5 DDB can be a decent play if the meter rates aren't too low and one or more of the jackpots is up. Often 6/5 SDDB is your best base game on a "poor" bank at 97.7%, but occasionally you find 7/5 SDDB at 98.6%. This game exists at a casino here in Carson City with 0.5% on the Royal, and 0.125% on each of four of the quads. With 0.25% from the slot card without a mulitplier, the overall return of this game is 99.86% without straying from non-progressive strategy. This is not the best game to play with a limited bankroll, even for quarters, but if one of the quads were up, it could be a good for a short play. I can't say what is available in LV, but it may surprise you how good some games are that have low base returns (and are overlooked by most people in the know).

Sometimes, three meter games on job, bonus, db, or deuces can be a good play as well.

If any of the above are on a bank, wait until all seats are vacant, pick one, and start playing. All you have to do is note how many cents each meter moves for so many bets. Usually, VP will be in round numbers: 2%, 1.5%, 1.25%, 1%, 0.75%, 0.5%, 0.4%, 0.25%, 0.15%, 0.125%, 0.1%, 0.0625%, 0.01%. Over 1% is rare, and usually I only see 1% on single meters (for the Royal). Other than 0.25% and 0.125%, numbers under 0.5% are pretty rare, as well. Often with three meters, one will be at 0.5% and the other two will be at 0.25%, which add to 1%. If you have a game at 98.5% or higher, the jackpots don't need to be extremely high to be playable. If your game is higher than 99%, then it may be playable all the time. Here in Northern Nevada, I see 8/5 Bonus and 9/6 JOB opportunities from time to time.

Best of luck!

Quote: camapl

djatc, it's hard to walk by all those progressives and wonder how high they need to be... But, as many posters before me have stated, the base returns are usually low, and determining the expected frequencies can be costly if you must play long enough to deconstruct. Multiple progressives can be a good play - even if each meter rises at a relatively low rate, they still might add up quickly together.

If you haven't already, search for VP games with multiple meters. Quite often I see banks with multiple variants linked to the same Royal progressive, and some games will have only the Royal (deuces/jokers, super aces), others will have the Royal and the SF (job, bonus, db), and still more will have the Royal, the SF, and most or all of the 4ks metered up (ddb, sddb, tdb, etc).

Even an 8/5 DDB can be a decent play if the meter rates aren't too low and one or more of the jackpots is up. Often 6/5 SDDB is your best base game on a "poor" bank at 97.7%, but occasionally you find 7/5 SDDB at 98.6%. This game exists at a casino here in Carson City with 0.5% on the Royal, and 0.125% on each of four of the quads. With 0.25% from the slot card without a mulitplier, the overall return of this game is 99.86% without straying from non-progressive strategy. This is not the best game to play with a limited bankroll, even for quarters, but if one of the quads were up, it could be a good for a short play. I can't say what is available in LV, but it may surprise you how good some games are that have low base returns (and are overlooked by most people in the know).

Sometimes, three meter games on job, bonus, db, or deuces can be a good play as well.

If any of the above are on a bank, wait until all seats are vacant, pick one, and start playing. All you have to do is note how many cents each meter moves for so many bets. Usually, VP will be in round numbers: 2%, 1.5%, 1.25%, 1%, 0.75%, 0.5%, 0.4%, 0.25%, 0.15%, 0.125%, 0.1%, 0.0625%, 0.01%. Over 1% is rare, and usually I only see 1% on single meters (for the Royal). Other than 0.25% and 0.125%, numbers under 0.5% are pretty rare, as well. Often with three meters, one will be at 0.5% and the other two will be at 0.25%, which add to 1%. If you have a game at 98.5% or higher, the jackpots don't need to be extremely high to be playable. If your game is higher than 99%, then it may be playable all the time. Here in Northern Nevada, I see 8/5 Bonus and 9/6 JOB opportunities from time to time.

Best of luck!

Ya I am trying to figure out the amount the lowest progressive must be, from reading mission's quick hits thread. Or at least the attainable ones. I'm not a big fan of slots since the returns are heavily in bonus rounds and longshots. Also I must factor in the cost required from getting the probability of hitting x coin-in - return. This would equate to the problem in video poker where you're "due for one royal" but that doesn't mean you are guaranteed one. I've tried to Wong slots but first my math ability is limited, and I never found a good opportunity to play one without busting the bank. However I am interested in finding out when its good since I'm walking about everywhere

Does anyone know if Quick Hits Diamond offers the same (alleged) advantage as Quick Hits Platinum? Meter rise seems to be *a lot* faster.

Quote: teddys

Does anyone know if Quick Hits Diamond offers the same (alleged) advantage as Quick Hits Platinum? Meter rise seems to be *a lot* faster.

With all due respect, I object to the word, "Alleged." The Quick Hits Platinum Progressive Probabilities and Base Returns were available on that website, and in fact, they used to be available on Bally Tech Inc's own website! Furthermore, I called Bally Tech and they specifically told me that the meter rise is not factored into the base return, so again, if a player wanted to assume the worst case scenario, then the player could assume the lowest programmable return on the machines and go from there. The exceptions are those two jurisdictions in which the lowest programmable return is not legal.

That having been said, I have no idea what the Progressive Probabilities are for Quick Hits Diamond, so I have no idea where the advantage points are. As with any uncapped Progressive on any Progressive game on Earth, there certainly is a theoretical advantage point, I just don't know where.

That's what is nice about knowing those probabilities for Quick Hits Platinum. The main difference between an advantageous Video Keno or Video Poker Progressive is that the probability of hitting the Progressive(s) is known, and therefore, the +ER is known...not the case for most slot machines.

Oh well, we have Quick Hits Platinum, the WMS, "Must-hit," machines (thanks to Wizard!) and the Bonus Time machines (Bonus vulturing) in our collective arsenal. These plays alone probably won't make an AP, especially if the would-be AP doesn't have many casinos within a few miles of him, but these are still nice plays for the AP (who necessarily focuses most of his energy on other stuff) and the casual player alike to know.

The other nice thing about these slots Advantage Plays is the Points/Comps valuations, don't forget those!

Quote: Mission146

With all due respect, I object to the word, "Alleged."

I apologize, P G. Thanks for your help, as always.

No problem!

Quote: Mission146

The Quick Hits Platinum Progressive Probabilities and Base Returns were available on that website, and in fact, they used to be available on Bally Tech Inc's own website! Furthermore, I called Bally Tech and they specifically told me that the meter rise is not factored into the base return, so again, if a player wanted to assume the worst case scenario, then the player could assume the lowest programmable return on the machines and go from there.
...
The other nice thing about these slots Advantage Plays is the Points/Comps valuations, don't forget those!

I had wondered if the source of the info on Arcade-History.com for the jackpot frequencies on these machines (and any of their info for that matter) was trust-worthy, as well. Thanks, Mission, for clearing that up! Although I, myself, have yet to see anything published by the manufacturers that contradicts what I see on Arcade History's site. It looks like most of the info about ranges of returns and hit frequencies were taken right from info published by the manufacturers - info that often is no longer available to the public for various reasons.

Yes! The extra perks given to slot players is exactly why I continue to search for more complete info on slot progressive opportunities. Unfortunately, the slots from the manufacturers with the most complete info available are not slots that I encounter here in Northern Nevada. I guess they are either too cutting edge, too minute, or just aren't made for NV (Class II). For example, the .pdf's on AGS' website have both return ranges and jackpot frequencies, but I have yet to see any of their games. The info on the others' websites may show returns, or return ranges, and bet and jackpot configurations available, but are still lacking overall. If you want to find some of these, depending on the manufacturer, they are called Promotional Literature, Cut Sheets, or Sell Sheets, and they are usually in a .pdf document. Sometimes the file download fails due to large picture files. These documents are used to promote the products to the various casinos.

Keep in mind that jackpot frequencies are not needed for Must-Hit-By's, as the frequency is a function of the hit-by amount, the rate of meter rise, the base return, and the (for 2 or more meters) reset values. You will find that determining the minimum return of the games offered to the casinos and whether these progressives (and/or bonuses are layered on top of the base game) are all you need to determine when the games are playable.

ADDED: Keep in mind that volatility is what determines ROR, and that you would need to deconstruct the game and/or find the PAR Sheet!

It's probably fairly trustworthy data. It depends on if you think someone is bored enough with life to lie about data like that. The chances of that are low, in my opinion. But I have seen many instances of people lying on the internet for no real good reason, so ymmv.

Sex in the City is a good play when Charlotte, the bottom progressive, reaches $26

Isn't is supposed to be Sex AND the City?

Quote: Wizard

Isn't is supposed to be Sex AND the City?

Depends on how randy one is feeling, I guess.

Sex in a plane will get you a fine of $250

http://www.businessinsider.com/couple-pleads-guilty-to-oral-sex-on-plane-2013-10

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Have sex with someone and then pay somebody else. Wonder what they call that?

Pimpin'?

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Quote: Alan

Sex in a plane will get you a fine of $250

http://www.businessinsider.com/couple-pleads-guilty-to-oral-sex-on-plane-2013-10

That's it!!??

Quote: Wizard

Isn't is supposed to be Sex AND the City?

Good catch. I don't watch the show so I don't get the reference. So these cougars are having sex and living in the city? I always thought the show was about having sex in weird places in the city such as a park or lawyer's office.

Quote: djatc

Good catch. I don't watch the show so I don't get the reference. So these cougars are having sex and living in the city? I always thought the show was about having sex in weird places in the city such as a park or lawyer's office.

Haha. Cougars having sex and living in Manhattan. It was the title of the HBO Series and the subsequent movies.