FourFiveFace
FourFiveFace
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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March 28th, 2012 at 11:42:07 AM permalink
Here's the situation. I was in a casino tournament, blinds are 200-400 (50 ante). Guy in early position raises to 1,200 and another in late position calls. I'm in the big blind with pocket kings and I re-raise to 3,500. Original raiser calls, other guy folds. The flop comes K-10-9 with two spades. I check, he goes all-in, and I call. He shows A-J of spades, spikes a queen on the turn, and the river is a blank. He has me covered by a little, so I'm busted out. He said "sorry" and said that if I had gone all-in pre-flop, he would've folded. See, I felt like going all-in would have been an unnecessary move on my part. Ultimately, I got what I wanted, but the cards didn't go in my favor. It's not the first time that someone said they would've folded had I gone all-in though. Is that what I should've done (or should do in the future)?
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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March 28th, 2012 at 11:57:01 AM permalink
I would've done what you did. If you go all-in pre-flop, he folds but you don't get much value from a premium hand. If you make a medium bet, you choke out the guy hoping to get lucky and keep the action of the guy with a high-but-overmatched hand. Then you hit top-trips on the flop. It really sucks that the guy with AJ hit a hand with so very many outs and then pulled one, but that's the chance you have to take to maximize the value of your high pocket pair.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 28th, 2012 at 12:10:24 PM permalink
You did the right thing, although checkign post flop *might* have been an error.

But I highly doubt that the guy with Ace-Jack Soooooted, would really have folded.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
kmumf
kmumf 
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March 28th, 2012 at 12:33:05 PM permalink
I think with that board 90% of the time they are going all in with that hand no matter what your move would have been.
Woldus
Woldus
Joined: Jan 13, 2011
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March 28th, 2012 at 12:41:51 PM permalink
Totally the way I would've played it (not that that means much)...I always prefer to get more chips in with KK or AA rather than shutting it down with an overbet. Though I agree with the other poster that he's not going away with AJ suited. But if he had something like 88, 99 or 10 10 you would've scared him off with a bet.

That fact that he had so many outs is that way it goes sometimes. You were ahead after the flop when the chips went in - what more can you do?

YOU'RE not going to fold a set of Kings are you?
FourFiveFace
FourFiveFace
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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March 28th, 2012 at 1:49:29 PM permalink
Nope. I wasn't overly upset by the situation. I mean, no one wants to see their opponent with a fairly strong draw, but I've taken way worse beats than that. I believe I could've gotten away from A-J suited preflop, but my game has improved over time. A lot of people are gonna stay in and see what happens.
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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March 28th, 2012 at 1:52:32 PM permalink
How much was the All-In? I know post-flop it won't matter; he figures he might be 50-50 on the flop anyways. Was this player aggressive? Tight? How many players were left? How far along were you in the tournament? What was the average chip stack? What was YOUR TABLE average chip stack? How aggressive had you been playing? How would that player have viewed your raise?

Each situation is completely different. It's very easy to say after the fact what should have been done, but my guess is you're probably playing a bit tight, if player after player tells you they would fold if you had gone all-in pre-flop. Depending on the answers to the above questions, he may have been correct to call an all-in pre-flop. Certainly after the flop he likes his odds, even in the odd case that you hit your K (which you did).

Tough luck, better luck next time.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Hollywood12
Hollywood12
Joined: Mar 21, 2012
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March 28th, 2012 at 1:52:48 PM permalink
in my own opinion and i very well could be wrong is you re-raised before the flop then checked after the flop. I'm guessing Mr. A J suited took that as a sign of your hand isnt so strong or your bluffing and decided to go all in to scare you out of the pot. The fact he won the hand was luck because im sure once he saw your 3 K's he was sweating bullets.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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March 28th, 2012 at 2:02:15 PM permalink
I've been thinking about this most of the day (it's one of "those" days at work...). I think I'd have put the OP on QQ or JJ to raise preflop and then check the K-high flop like that. I'd personally have fallen for the check trap, and been at risk just like the real opponent. And, with my luck, the turn and river would both have been blanks for me:-)
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
FourFiveFace
FourFiveFace
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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March 28th, 2012 at 2:11:38 PM permalink
I had about 13,000 chips, he had maybe 14-15k. Tournament started with 44 players, with only 4-6 players eliminated. So we both had around the average chip stack, give or take a few hundred. The table I was at was a full ten. I had just moved to that table, so I wasn't really sure of this guy's playing style. And yes, I did check hoping that he would make a move.

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