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P90
P90
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January 6th, 2012 at 1:32:42 PM permalink
On rake being too high to play, what I was referring to is:
1) Alternate drop schemes - anything that gets above 10%/$5. If you aren't in Vegas/AC, casinos can collect rake on top of the blinds, collect it ante-style, etc, not waiting for the first $10 to get into the pot. All of these usually very bad for the player.
2) No-flop rake - some casinos rake regardless, others have "no flop, no drop". In tight games this distinction is more important than rake max itself.
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 1:55:14 PM permalink
Wiz of E -

I agree with you. In fact, I think all the players except the player who stayed in would have agreed with you.

Except for a couple things:

1 - Although the colors were similar, these chips were not the old, cheapo, unmarked chips seen in tourneys in some poker rooms. They were new, clearly marked with a value and "No cash value" on them.
2 - At the start of the tourney, we were all warned about the similar colors.
3 - This player had already used his one Mulligan.

---

P90 -

I've never seen the alternate drops you mentioned, but will include it. For what it's worth, Bally's in AC has $1/$3 instead of $1/$2. When I asked the floor manager about that, he said one reason was to ensure a rake in short handed, limped flops. On the other hand, they also offer $1/$1. Both blinds are $1, but it's $2 to call. Go figure.

No Flop Rake? Now that I think about, I objected to a no flop rake on that damn cruise, and the floorperson agreed with me. I can't recall seeing it elsewhere, but I'll include that too.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
cardshark
cardshark
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January 6th, 2012 at 2:01:00 PM permalink
I think your article is well written. However, your article makes the casino game look way more complicated and difficult to learn than it actually is. I get the feeling that you tried to address every possible scenario or issue that could arise in a poker room. Someone new to the game doesn't need all those details. They need the basics and a reassurance that they don't need to feel nervous playing poker in a casino. I think your article is doing the opposite of that and you risk scaring off new people by the length and amount of detail in your article.

Keep it simple - casino poker is easy to learn, easy to play and new players should not be feel intimidated. The most important advice you can give to a newbie is watch how the dealer and players play the game and don't be shy to ask questions. The dealers and staff are happy to answer questions. Everything else will come with experience.

Perhaps your article as is would be better billed as a complete guide to casino poker (the house rules and running of the game) and target it towards players looking for a reference.
P90
P90
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January 6th, 2012 at 2:35:20 PM permalink
Here's one particularly bad rake example: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/27/brick-mortar/morongo-terrible-preflop-rake-1082702/
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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 6th, 2012 at 3:21:25 PM permalink
Shark -

Points well taken. I'll let the Wiz decide if he wants me to trim it. I may add something to the intro that it's not necessary to have all these details down cold, but that when they pop up, it may trigger something from having read about it. Or something like that.

I may also chop it up to separate the stuff you need to know from the other stuff and house rules.

For the record, I keep hearing these types of things discussed at my poker league games. That's part of the inspiration. The other part comes from the Wiz himself. He has stated in the past that poker confuses him (or something like that). I'm not sure if he meant the math of evaluating the possibility of being bluffed, or these details, or something else, but, there it is.


P90 -

WOW. That's nuts.

But upon reading the thread, it seems that sort of thing is isolated to California. And knowing what I know about Cali from other posts, it kinda makes sense, as well as makes me wonder if it's a Cali Card Room thing that doesn't exist in poker room at the Indian Casinos.

For the record (and I'll include this) my experience is limited to Vegas, AC, CT and PA.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Tiltpoul
Tiltpoul
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January 6th, 2012 at 4:20:14 PM permalink
Quote: P90

On rake being too high to play, what I was referring to is:
1) Alternate drop schemes - anything that gets above 10%/$5. If you aren't in Vegas/AC, casinos can collect rake on top of the blinds, collect it ante-style, etc, not waiting for the first $10 to get into the pot. All of these usually very bad for the player.
2) No-flop rake - some casinos rake regardless, others have "no flop, no drop". In tight games this distinction is more important than rake max itself.



Penn National (at least from what a dealer at Hollywood Lawrenceburg told me) has a universal policy of raking without a flop. Hollywood does one worse, and when the pot gets to $20 they take $1 bad beat (they do this in WV too). So you lose an extra $1 for a Bad Beat that you had 0% chance of hitting (if you didn't see a flop!)
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
P90
P90
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January 6th, 2012 at 4:45:21 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

WOW. That's nuts.
But upon reading the thread, it seems that sort of thing is isolated to California. And knowing what I know about Cali from other posts, it kinda makes sense, as well as makes me wonder if it's a Cali Card Room thing that doesn't exist in poker room at the Indian Casinos.


I think it might be so, but there are also other places and other countries where gambling is held in low regard with insurmountably bad odds as a result. All players need to know is to avoid such games, similar to blackjack with "ante" fees.


On other parts:
Straddle - Phrasing could be improved, by defining straddle right away. Generally I'd keep this one short, as straddling is definitely not ABC and a new player just needs to know what's going on when he sees it.

e.g.:

"To straddle is to place a blind raise before the cards are dealt. It allows a player out of position to retake the initiative, and is normally done Under The Gun. Several poker books dispute if it ever helps the straddling player more than it does others.

The next player has the option to make a second straddle, and so on - as long as all the straddling is done before the cards are dealt. If no player raises, the straddler can re-raise when the action comes around.

Straddling can be not allowed at all. In that case, if player making such a bet is actually making a blind raise, and does NOT get the option to re-raise if there are no additional raises.

Straddling can be allowed from one position only, usually Under The Gun. Some poker rooms allow a "Button Straddle." In this case, it is the player on the button who makes the straddle, and action begins with the small blind.

Some poker rooms allow a "Mississippi Straddle". In this case, any player can make the straddle. Action begins with the player to the left of the straddler. If there are no raises prior to the his turn, the straddle stands as his raise and is the last action pre-flop."
<leaving out other "ifs">
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zippyboy
zippyboy
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January 7th, 2012 at 1:01:20 AM permalink
Quote: andysif

then why "For example, if the bet is $2, and you have a ton of $1 chips, and you put out ANY larger chip, it's still a $2 call."

if i don't say anything, and i have lots of $1 chips and i don't use them and put down a $10 chip, shouldn't it implies that i am raising to 10?

this is the part that i don't understand: what "unwritten rule" is there that would make my action "a $2 call."


What's all this talk of $10 chips? There's no such thing in a 1/2 game anywhere in Las Vegas. Only the B, V, and Wynn have 5/10 games with $10 chips (which are not present in 1/2 games). If you want to call a $2 bet, toss out a $5 anywhere in town.

Multiple chips speak for themselves obviously. Don't be a silent hoody-wearing, hollywooding DB. Make your intentions known and there'll be no problems.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
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January 7th, 2012 at 2:12:56 AM permalink
I think the value is immaterial, exchange $10 for $25, $100 etc....

Not that I wear a hoody, or remain silent (most people think I'm from Australia when I talk), but surely every player has the right to play how they want if its within the rules. I like variety at my table, otherwise I would just play on-line. Remember on-line poker?
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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January 7th, 2012 at 5:27:44 AM permalink
I've been giving it a re-think.

I'm going to eliminate (or greatly reduce) the section about Straddles. Possibly other sections too.

Straddles are much more of a strategy item than most of the other topics. They ARE discussed in many poker books, and, partially because of shows like High Stakes Poker, they are openly discussed in home games, and sometimes even allowed in home games.

I gotta remember that this article is supposed to be about helping a beginner not look foolish the first time he goes to a poker room. Since so many poker rooms don't allow the straddle, it's not a terrible thing if the newbie has to ask about it, should the situation come up.


On the flip side, the issue of a single large chip is so universally accepted in poker rooms, but also almost universally ignored in home games, that it warrants inclusion.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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