Poker Tournaments vs. Poker Games

I play a little poker now and then and recently tried one of the tournaments. I thought it was great fun but also thought this is no way to try to ever make any money. I consulted a few of my poker buddies who play lots of poker. They laughed. Told me that the pro poker players one sees on TV playing the tournaments also think tournament poker is a joke. They are involved for TV because it's part of the contracts they have with either the online casinos or some of the casino's offering tournaments. I did notice they all had either tshirts or hats on from sponsors. I also noticed they didn't seem to upset if they got out early lol. Perhaps my friends are right. Would be interested in your feedback here.
Thanks
zippedup(TommyB)

Quote: zippedup

I play a little poker now and then and recently tried one of the tournaments. I thought it was great fun but also thought this is no way to try to ever make any money. I consulted a few of my poker buddies who play lots of poker. They laughed. Told me that the pro poker players one sees on TV playing the tournaments also think tournament poker is a joke. They are involved for TV because it's part of the contracts they have with either the online casinos or some of the casino's offering tournaments. I did notice they all had either tshirts or hats on from sponsors. I also noticed they didn't seem to upset if they got out early lol. Perhaps my friends are right. Would be interested in your feedback here.
Thanks
zippedup(TommyB)

A tournament is a different form of Poker, that is for sure. The chips lose their value in a manner of speaking, since you can't get up from the table and take them with you. Prizes are awarded instead. Elimination becomes all. IMO, who has the biggest bank becomes a factor in tournaments since *elimination* is *everything*. Am I right?

As far as the pros thinking it is a joke, I dunno, they sure seem to want those bracelets.

Some amateurs and professionals make good money in poker tournaments, online or B&M. I'm sure many pros got their start by hitting it big in a tournament.

One thing I am pretty sure of: poker tournaments have a higher variance and thus require a larger bankroll to avoid ruin in the long-term compared to cash games.

Quote: dwheatley

poker tournaments have a higher variance and thus require a larger bankroll to avoid ruin in the long-term compared to cash games.

Higher variance? Not really. But since the blinds go up regularly, you can't sit back waiting for ideal hands. You gotta play more marginal hands than you do at a cash game.

Larger bankroll? Tournament players all start with the same bankroll. You just have to build it - whether by successfully bluffing, or by having more winning hands, you gotta build it.

Pros think its a joke? Not really. They may find it laughable how so many amateurs get lucky playing bad cards, and that the flavor of the game has changed since the 'Moneymaker' effect, but they do take it seriously. After all, if they don't do well, they aren't going to keep getting those sponsorships.

Hi I'm new to this site and I have a Q (not sure where to post this)
Ok here goes
Holdem
Bad beat I had a hand 10/10 heads up agaisnt AK (allin I was)
Flop A 10 A turn A river Q
The house rules AAA 10 10 beaten by Quads or better.
Both hole cards must play and be pocket pairs kicker dosn't play.
I have played poker rooms where this hand i had would have won (with the kicker playing)
Prize pool was 79k my hand would have paid a little less than 40k
Needles to say i was on tilt being I have been playing 5 years and this was the closest I have gotin to winning the jackpot :-(
OK my Q is:
10 handed playing this kinda bad beat what are the odds of winning the pot.
It pays 50% to beaten hand 25% winning hand 25% to the rest of the table.
5 players min at the table 10 max

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Quote: dwheatley

poker tournaments have a higher variance and thus require a larger bankroll to avoid ruin in the long-term compared to cash games.

Higher variance? Not really. But since the blinds go up regularly, you can't sit back waiting for ideal hands. You gotta play more marginal hands than you do at a cash game.

Larger bankroll? Tournament players all start with the same bankroll. You just have to build it - whether by successfully bluffing, or by having more winning hands, you gotta build it.

Pros think its a joke? Not really. They may find it laughable how so many amateurs get lucky playing bad cards, and that the flavor of the game has changed since the 'Moneymaker' effect, but they do take it seriously. After all, if they don't do well, they aren't going to keep getting those sponsorships.

I think what dwheatley is saying is that to play multiple tournaments you will experience a higher variance compared to playing cash games because about 90% of the time you will just lose your buy-in. So you will need a bigger bankroll because you may go many tournaments without cashing. Obviously in any individual tournament players start with the same number of chips.

In a cash game, if you consistently make better decisions than your opponents, luck will average out much faster than in tournaments. The reason is that if you get unlucky in a crucial hand in a tournament, you may be knocked out. This is why many successful tournament players avoid pushing small edges--they feel they can get a much larger edge later and don't want to risk being knocked out. In cash games, the successful players take advantage of every edge, no matter how small (as long as they have a sufficient bankroll).

Quote: dk

I think what dwheatley is saying is that to play multiple tournaments you will experience a higher variance compared to playing cash games because about 90% of the time you will just lose your buy-in. So you will need a bigger bankroll because you may go many tournaments without cashing.

That's what I was saying.

>Hi I'm new to this site and I have a Q (not sure where to post this)

look for the tab that says 'start new thread'

>Larger bankroll? Tournament players all start with the same

this is true, but if a player builds his bankroll to be the largest, he has an advantage. IMO this is related to 2 facts:

*you don't cash out your chips, you must win a prize for what place you earn
*elimination is the goal: you can't re-enter the same tournament

again, I grant you the bankroll must first be built up

I mostly play tournaments because I enjoy them more. But if you wnat to make a living you need to grind it out at the live games.

Quote: slyther

I mostly play tournaments because I enjoy them more. But if you wnat to make a living you need to grind it out at the live games.

you can definitely make a living playing tournaments.

a decently good tournament player (once he spends several months working on his game and getting experience) can fairly reasonably achieve an ROI of 40-50% in the low to mid-stake buyins online. Basically anything between $25-150. It's pretty easy to find 15-20 or more of these starting within a span of a few hours on any given day, equating to ~$1000 in tournament buyins. that comes out to an expected profit of $400-500 per session (they usually last around 6-7 hours on average)

So even if you only "worked" 4 days a week with some breaks here-and-there (say 40 weeks x 4), you could expect to earn in the neighborhood of $70-75k in a year.

And yes the variance is pretty absurd in the short-run, but over several months or a year you can achieve fairly consistent results.

sure... but I don't have the time or inclination to put that much time into playing online. I get to play 1 or 2 live tournaments a month typically.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Higher variance? Not really. But since the blinds go up regularly, you can't sit back waiting for ideal hands. You gotta play more marginal hands than you do at a cash game.

Larger bankroll? Tournament players all start with the same bankroll. You just have to build it - whether by successfully bluffing, or by having more winning hands, you gotta build it.

Pros think its a joke? Not really. They may find it laughable how so many amateurs get lucky playing bad cards, and that the flavor of the game has changed since the 'Moneymaker' effect, but they do take it seriously. After all, if they don't do well, they aren't going to keep getting those sponsorships.

it appers you dont know what the term bankroll means itit your total cash avalable to buy into cas games/tourniments being in a cash game you can buy in for your whole roll and deside to leave if you drop half you still have somthing or if you hit one big hand and double up you can cashout and buy back later having made a profit and you do not have that options in tournis. also a real pro expects to cash at least 20% of tournis to be profitable.

It depends what you play tournaments for. Amateur players like tournaments because of the potential for high payout - can range from 10 times your buy-in to much higher, while they see cash games as more of a grind. Pros may like tournaments because they have better grasp of the increasing blind structure, when to increase aggression, non-fear of bubble time etc. Compared to cash games, this gives them a bigger advantage over the rockish, but solid amateurs. Also you should compare the entrance fee to the commission in each poker room, some lower range tournaments have ridiculous 20%+ commissions.