poker site wouldn't answer a simple odds question.
dealt. And how many times a hand with a 24%, or lower, after turn card was dealt. Will win out of 9 times .
And I was told that they don't have odds. In this is luck outcome.
Down below is some of the transcript of the conversation with support.
This part of the chat was after I exhausted all of supports circle talk, and wouldn't
let them off the hook with their simplistic every day answers.
nobest: i'm asking how mant times will a hand with less then a 24% to win after turn card dealt. Wins out of 9 times
when this type of odds are against a player?
Michele Bequette: This is random, we do not have odds in this as this is luck outcome
nobest: what?
nobest: All poker card games have odds.
Michele B: Please be assured that our poker software is 100% fair & secure. We are licensed by the world's leading online gaming regulatory authority and our systems are tested regularly by independent auditing companies. We use a RNG (random number generator) to ensure that all players are dealt a fair deal hand each and every game. The RNG system produces innumerable permutations and combinations in the 52-card deck that is virtually impossible to predict. The numbers must be unpredictable and not related to each other in any way to be considered truly random.
nobest: whats the answer to the question? It's a simple answer to it. No hand history to look at.
Michele B: We have already explained to you exhaustively about this matter. Will there be any other matter that you would like me to attend?
nobest: answering the question will give no excuse.
nobest: And any poker site online, should have t
Michele B: Though its not very likely to happen with the odds you have presented, its still possible. I don't have the access to view the hands and calculate the odds.
nobest: if you look at one hand that won with a 24% to win, and it does. It's not so strange...put when you look at 8 out 9 in the same tournment, and when a few are all in bets. THATS when it's probability is questionedd.
Michele B: Again, we can no longer engage this type of conversations with you. Is there any other matter you would like to address?
I'm a big fan of diplomacy, but when it doesn't work, I'm all for the direct approach:
Nobody cares about the bad poker calls you make.
Nobody cares about the resulting bad beats you experience.
My advice would be to keep playing! you just got unlucky, maybe you should try the ipoker network? $1/$2 NLHE 6 max tables, I'll see you there... ;-)
Quote: WizardI don't fault how Michele handled it. In her shoes I would not have seen the point of answering the question.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect a CSR to compute tournament poker odds on the fly, especially when the answer is calculable independently (without requiring a CSR chat in the first place).
Quote: rdw4potusI don't think these odds are even that extreme. The odds of a 24% hand winning exactly 8 out of 9 times are about 1:120,000. Factor in the other hands where things went the other way that we're not being told about, and we're pretty squarely in the realm of normalcy.
I get 1 in 13281 (.24)^8*(.76)*9= 0.000008365723877376
Quote: WizardofEnglandI actually think there should be more people like the original poster, without them I could not afford the nice things in life.
My advice would be to keep playing! you just got unlucky, maybe you should try the ipoker network? $1/$2 NLHE 6 max tables, I'll see you there... ;-)
problems are just with online poker sites. Not live games. And alot of players that win the all in bets , are out of pure desperation.
Too many 7-2 beating AK, and QQ.
on all 6 hands. And I played on only 9 hands out of the 34.
Quote: 40487problems are just with online poker sites. Not live games. And alot of players that win the all in bets , are out of pure desperation.
Too many 7-2 beating AK, and QQ.
Have you ever thought that the reason more bad beats play out online could be due to
a) more bad players being in hands they have no place in
b) luck
or
c) online more hands are dealt in a shorter space of time so the likelyhood of you seeing more unlikely outcomes increases?
I deal and supervise live cash and tournament poker amongst other things, and In three years have seen an insane number of hands. I have seen nights where so many bad beats are in evidence you would think something was up.
Quote: WizardI don't fault how Michele handled it. In her shoes I would not have seen the point of answering the question.
They wont answer any hold'em odds question that's deals in a series of hands. Hands are reviewed as induvial hands not
in group. Which any hand by itself can be easily be explain away as a lucky break. So when u ask about well how many
times can I lose at a 72% or higher to win at the turn. Because either their texas hold'em caculator is broke, and the one
that has a link to it on this site is also wrong. Or 74% dosen't equal 26 out 0f 100 no more.
Quote: 40487They want answer any hold'em odds question that's deals in a series of hands. Hands are reviewed as induvial hands not
in group. Which any hand by itself can be easily be explain away as a lucky break. So when u ask about well how many
times can I lose at a 72% or higher to win at the turn. Because either their texas hold'em caculator is broke, and the one
that has a link to it on this site is also wrong. Or 74% dosen't equal 26 out 0f 100 no more.
The problem with probabilities like that (from my understanding) is that they are averages. So in an Infinite time of playing poker you would expect to win the hand 74% of the time.
However you could lose the hand 5 million times concurrently, then win the next 15 million to get to the 75%.
Quote: CroupierHave you ever thought that the reason more bad beats play out online could be due to
a) more bad players being in hands they have no place in
b) luck
or
c) online more hands are dealt in a shorter space of time so the likelyhood of you seeing more unlikely outcomes increases?
I just can't except that it's simple as luck, or players exploring for their playing idenity.
If I never played online poker. I would express the same view as all most people on here. That makes it worse.
And everytime I get in a live game it makes me curious about the shuffling, and brain in the software.
Pro wrestling for more then half a century. Had millions of fans thinking it was a real sporting event.
Millions spent money on tickets convinced it was real. Even after hitting themselves in the head with chairs, boots, fist.
No blackeyes or goosenots on the skull. And they did this 3 times a week. Even when televisied most people
still thought it was real. Wrestlers swore it was a real match, and also promotors sold tickets , and television time
as a real matches. Something so obvious as their bad acting, and the ref always missing the loaded glove, and
getting knockout. All the dramatics with wrestlers fighting in the parking lot, on the floor. In the steel cage.
People belived it was all real. And it took the owner of the WWE to admit on the t.v. that it was a sport entertainment
not a real sancation matches. The owner of WWE made the statement because of a possible law suit for promoting
the wrestle events as real sporting events. So if PRO westling can fool millions of people to buy tickets to, and
millions at home to buy it on pay-view on cable T.V. And for a very long time. I know from 70s to end of century.
It was a real deal. Impossible not to be real... And alot of these fans had been in a fight growing up, and know that
lips, and noses bleed when hit. Eyes swell up and turn black. And you can get KO'd . None of these hardly ever happen
to these wrestlers in these 20 men cage fights. Doing it in differnt cities 3 nights a week. So I didn't think pro wrestling
was on the up in up. So I think online poker could be alittle off center. And with all the drunks at home playing The
thousands of newbies playing. That hasn't played poker before. Yeah they could easily fix a hand here, and their.Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
(Except maybe stupid people, I guess.)
Quote: mipletI get 1 in 13281 (.24)^8*(.76)*9= 0.000008365723877376
1/13281=.0000752955350
1/119535=.000008365723877376
Did I fat-finger something? I get your decimal, but a different fraction.
Quote: MoscaI really don't think anyone ever thought pro wrestling was real. Ever. We didn't think it was real when we watched it in the '60s, and I don't think there was some big revelation that just happened right before we started watching, to make us 10-year-olds think that. People probably knew it was fake in the '40s and '50s, too. Kinda hard not to, actually.
(Except maybe stupid people, I guess.)
I used to think pro wrestling was real. Then I got older and wised up. I now accept (and still enjoy it) as a form of Televisual entertainment akin to a soap opera, and am going to watch the still impressive athletic feats (as surely making it look like youre hurting someone when you are trying hard not to is still impressive) live in January.
Back to the comment
Quote: 40487
I just can't except that it's simple as luck, or players exploring for their playing idenity.
If I never played online poker. I would express the same view as all most people on here. That makes it worse.
And everytime I get in a live game it makes me curious about the shuffling, and brain in the software.......
........So I think online poker could be alittle off center. And with all the drunks at home playing The
thousands of newbies playing. That hasn't played poker before. Yeah they could easily fix a hand here, and their.
Why would any big reputable poker site want to risk the million dollars a year they earn in cash rakes and tournament fees want to rig a hand here and there? I play online, and yeah sometimes it might smell fishy. But that is the price of the RNG. I think it is RealDeal Poker who have recently developed software using real decks instead of RNG's, so time will tell if it makes any difference.
okay. how do you think they get players to the real tables? I don't think a new player is going to go right to a real money table.
First they will mostly go to play money first. And this poker sites don't want new players to get bullied by better players. They
will never come back. So their has to be a equalizer to let new players win. And this is the easy part. Deal new players a
ace, and they will bet on it all the way to the river, then the river card is a ace. Or let them bet on full suited pocket cards.
Thats why so many players go crazy with bets on a pocket ace, or pocket suits they been brain washed to believe the
ace is in every board cards. Thats why poker sites make so much in rakes. Get 3 farily new players on a real money table.
Deal each a ace, and watch the pre-flop raises go up. And it will be all in bets before river.
People this online sites aren't in buissness for us. It's buissness and if they can twick the software to get more new players in.
Which makes them more money. Which is a easier to get away with manipulation of cards at the bottom end .Then in a high
stakes real money game. Were people will listen to a player(s) who is playing at a higher stakes that notices odd card play.
Then players playing at a lower stakes. Because we all think the bad players are at that level. And so many players betting
on crazy hands that more bad beats will be seen. This is a crap view. When I was little we played with monopoly money,
and it was never this away. 25 flushes ,40 straights, 12 fullhouses, and 2 quads in 110 hands. If I had fullhouse small, or large
I was going to win 98% of the time. It wasn't losing 3 times with 3 fullhouses to 2 quads, and a bigger fullhouse . In the same
night.
Going to check the stacks on realdeal poker. thanks for the 411.
edit... I don't think RDP allowa USA players.
Quote: 40487Nobody ask you a damn thing now did they djteddybear. You must really makin a big move up the pickin order on this forum.Quote: DJTeddyBearI think the support person, as well as members here who have engaged you in conversation, have done their best to find a diplomatic way to tell you to stop bothering them.
I'm a big fan of diplomacy, but when it doesn't work, I'm all for the direct approach:Nobody cares about you.
Nobody cares about the bad poker calls you make.
Nobody cares about the resulting bad beats you experience.
Showing alot of showmenship with your post. Only a attention seeking person with a low self-esteem about themself. Would take
the time to make themself noticed without contributing absolutly nothing, but he is the spoke person for those who have.
So you need to pump up your tiny ego, and i bet you have to get other things up with a pump. Which explains alot of your problems.
This is not the first time that you've come here to complain about online poker.
Sorry if you took offense to my blunt comments.
Sooner or later you'll "get it".
Quote: rdw4potus1/13281=.0000752955350
1/119535=.000008365723877376
Did I fat-finger something? I get your decimal, but a different fraction.
Ooops, I pasted the wrong number.
8 w followed 1 L (.24)^8*(.76)=0.000008365723877376 * 9 places for the L = 0.000075291514896384
I think you forgot to multiply by 9.
Quote: DJTeddyBearQuote: 40487Nobody ask you a damn thing now did they djteddybear. You must really makin a big move up the pickin order on this forum.Quote: DJTeddyBearNobody cares about DJTEDDYBEAR's OPINION.
Nobody cares about DJTEDDYBEAR'S CANDYASS.
djteddybear got his butt kicked daily growing up, and this forum has given him a chance to be a tough guy behide his computer screen..
Showing alot of showmenship with your post. Only a attention seeking person with a low self-esteem about themself. Would take
the time to make themself noticed without contributing absolutly nothing, but he is the spoke person for those who have.
So you need to pump up your tiny ego, and i bet you have to get other things up with a pump. Which explains alot of your problems.
some people can see greatness when others can't, and some people can see assholes where others can't .
Here with no color ink just straight black print . Just like your interself. YOUR A ASSHOLE.Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
I don't know if youQuote: WizardI don't fault how Michele handled it. In her shoes I would not have seen the point of answering the question.
understand the whole conversation with support. before chatting with the worker thats posted. I talk to a different worker at the poker site, because of
missing or never received hand history for that day , or the night before. And they wouldn't send another history file for that day...And it just happens
to be the file that had me being dealt a 8 card in pocket. 7 times in row and 4 of the 8s in a row was a 8h.
Quote: 40487Here with no color ink just straight black print . Just like your interself. YOUR A ASSHOLE.
Oooooo. That's gonna leave a mark. But maybe not where you think.
You are not special, in that there are thousands of other players on the same site in the same situation as you. The casino makes money from the pots, not from the crappy cards it deals its fleas. If you are going to get cheated, it will be a player knowing your hole cards, not from the software dealing bad cards to you. It is much, much simpler, for the casino to deal a fair game and collect its pots then to cheat and piss off players.
Why do you think the casino is targeting you in particular? Did you rip them off? Did you piss off the owner in a previous life? Or is the casino targeting all players with a few months of experience? To what end?
My advice will mirror others. Don't play if you think you're being cheated. Go somewhere else where you feel more comfortable.
Quote: 40487Quote: DJTeddyBearQuote: 40487Nobody ask you a damn thing now did they djteddybear. You must really makin a big move up the pickin order on this forum.Quote: DJTeddyBearNobody cares about DJTEDDYBEAR's OPINION.
Nobody cares about DJTEDDYBEAR'S CANDYASS.
djteddybear got his butt kicked daily growing up, and this forum has given him a chance to be a tough guy behide his computer screen..
Showing alot of showmenship with your post. Only a attention seeking person with a low self-esteem about themself. Would take
the time to make themself noticed without contributing absolutly nothing, but he is the spoke person for those who have.
So you need to pump up your tiny ego, and i bet you have to get other things up with a pump. Which explains alot of your problems.
some people can see greatness when others can't, and some people can see assholes where others can't .
Here with no color ink just straight black print . Just like your interself. YOUR A ASSHOLE.[/q
Violation of Rule 1.
Why is this guy always calling her about odds of theoretical hands.
If there is some superuser viewing hole cards, analysis of the players will reveal it.
The casino has no reason to queer the deal, only the players have any reason to do that.
Why do you think the casino is targeting you in particular? Did you rip them off? Did you piss off the owner in a previous life? Or is the casino targeting all players with a few months of experience? To what end?
I'm not a conspiracy person by nature, but I do think there's a valid point regarding the advantage of creating action on the "Play for Fun" side. With the surge in new players right now there seems to be limitless amounts of money to be made if those players could be encouraged to get over to the "Play for Real" side of the site. I've played a good bit on the fun side at JOKERstars and the record of winning hands don't seem to reflect what we win with around the table on Friday night. Flush, Flush, Full House, Trips, Straight, Flush....at home it's Flush, Ace high (checked down), Two Pair, Pair, Pair vs. busted flush, etc. The other thing that seems to occur with high frequency is the number of strong hands dealt at the same time.
Like I said, I'm not into conspiracies, but if you could make people feel like Phil Ivey with free chips they may be more interested in plunking down real money.
If you disagree with me respond however you'd like - no big deal - I've got an ex-wife....
However, I would query whether even a play for fun site would engage in any practice that altered the results. Any player who thinks the sites are altered, should steer clear.
Quote: WoldusBoymimbo wrote:
Why do you think the casino is targeting you in particular?
..............................................................................................................................................
reply sorry if my typing, or grammer, and spelling offends anyone. Just do your best with it..
Did tabacco companies target young kids to pick up the smoking habits? Why would people what to hurt kids? Did tobacco compaines give their products more nicatine drug to hook people to smoke more? I don't understand why a company would want to kill
their consumers quicker. They make billions a year why would they give their loyal customers cancer? And why would they risk billions of dollars to say
thier products aren't harmful if they really are deadly. WAKE UP!!
Why does beer commericals always show people having a great time. When the truth is many people will die tonight by a drunk driver. Wifes being slapped down
by a drunk husband. 160,000's people will dye this year in some sort of drinking related death. Do you see drunk drivers running kids over, wifes being shot,
people dying with liver damage in this commericals. Another 150,000 people in prison because of some related crime while drunk. Insurance premiums
going up more to pay for all the wreck cars, and property damage done to garges by drunk drivers. Medical insurance also going up to pay for all the
medical care needed for victims hit by drunk drivers, and the medical care needed for damage livers that hard beer drinkers get. Is that on the
commericals? Showing taxes payers money being used for the damages done by their products. They're very aware of the millions of dollars
their product is costing the taxpayers, and the lost of innocent lifes, and the suffering their families must live thru.
I bet they would be more aware if they paid for every kids social-security. If that childs mom or dad was killed by a drunk driver. And pay the 100 millions
of dollars in property damage. Pay 100's of million dollars for the hospital bills, and future medical bills needed by victims of drunk drivers,
and their social security if they cant return to work.
I getting alittle tired of paying for their neglect in not properly advertiseing their product to a more
responsible consumer. Not the college guy with the what could happen? Or the joke that has to come at the end of every beer commerical. That makes
us forget where paying for all the damage that their product cause. And they just earn the billions of dollars in yearly profits sells of their beer.
And the taxpayersshell out almost 300 million dollars a year in damages for medical, and property damages. Plus social-security for childern under
18 that lost their parent to a drunk driver.
Pro wrestling get away with promoting, and selling tickets , and television time for their matches as real sporting events.? For almost a full century people
paid to see men 'competing' as real warriors. And we all know that eyes turn black, and swell shut, lips get busted up and bleed , heads get lumps, and
if hits with a steel chair it will knock you out, and whiplash damage occurs. Yet for 20 minutes this men beat on each other, and no black eyes, or bloody lips.
and nobody gets KOd. And they do this 3 times a week. Professional wrestling fans would get upset if you called it fake. Pro wrestlers claimed it all was
real fights. Millions of people watching at home, and stadiums fill with fans. seeing it live in front of their faces. And still believed it was a real sport. And the only
reason why they didn't keep up with the " is all real". Because of a possible lawsuit against WWE for promoting it as a sporting event. And they did lose alot
of fans to the MMA . We they went from it's real fights. To saying we're a entertainment company. So thats the reason they started making movies to provide
for lost ticket sells.
Do they have to repay back everyone that paid for a real fight. No.. And the time people spent on going to stadiums, and watching wrestling
on t.v. And thinking about wrestlers, and following the so called sport. Even at one time, and maybe their still is a pro wrestling magazines. The Video games,
and, pay-per views had made millions for a company in the fraud sporting buisness. If it wasnt for the possible lawsuit against WWE they would still
be promoting it as a real sporting event. And still would have kept the millions of paying fans, and fans believing it's all real. That it took the owner of the WWE
to make a statement on television before some fans would except that it was fake. And the teenagers fan in canda that kill another teenager.
The dead teenager, and friends tease another teenager for years about pro wrestling being fake. And as long as the teased fan had the promotors, and .
actual pro wrestlers saying they were real matches. He didn't feel alone when the teasing friends would start heckling him. But when it was shown
on the wrestling program, of the owner of WWE. Saying pro wrestling is for sporting entertainment purpose only. And the heckling of 3 teenage boys
went on for months until he snaped, and stabed the boy with a screwdriver in the ear. That kid fan was a beliver.
So do you think online poker sites are worried about the masses getting together and becoming their watchdog on poker sites...lol
They can practice any poker fraud aginst any low stakes player, and not sweat it. Matter fact more lower stake player are playing online then high stakes.
So manipulating the small poker tables with it's larger volume of players coming online to play. And most are new to poker. So detection of non poker probabilities
is very slim, and who would listen to them anyway...Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
WHAT! Why stay away lets see what he might have to show. And lets go kick their asses if their not showing creditable poker results.Quote: FleaStiffThe only purpose the Play For Fun sections exist is to feed curious newcomers to the Play For Real section of the site.
However, I would query whether even a play for fun site would engage in any practice that altered the results. Any player who thinks the sites are altered, should steer clear.
This stay clear of any questionable poker site is more a positive for the alleged poker site. And only pass the ? to another player.
