billryan
billryan
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March 25th, 2022 at 10:08:24 AM permalink
In a home game, $50 buy-in, pot limit( if I understand the phrase correctly) Five-card draw. Players take turns dealing. Dealer accidentally tosses a player's fourth card too hard and it flies off the table and lands on the floor.
All the players agree the card is dead, but what happens next.
Does the player get the next card, which normally would have gone to the next player?
Is the player's hand dead? Does the game continue with the player having four cards to everyone else's five?
Any other alternative?
We quickly chose to call the entire hand dead hand and deal over but bickering over the hand continued
How would a poker room handle it?
Last edited by: billryan on Mar 25, 2022
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Dieter
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Dieter
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March 25th, 2022 at 1:15:45 PM permalink
I think you've got it. Declare a misdeal, shuffle and deal again.

I would expect antes to stand for the redeal, and I wouldn't expect there were other wagers made.
If there were other wagers made mid-deal (before each player had a complete hand), that might change things.

edit to append: I would not expect the button to move or the deal to advance to the next player.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Joeman
Joeman
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MrCasinoGames
March 25th, 2022 at 1:38:58 PM permalink
Though I have not seen five-card draw in a poker room, I assume they would treat it like any other game. If one card is exposed (or falls of the table), the deal continues until everyone has all their cards. Then, the player whose card is exposed gets dealt a replacement. This way, everyone gets the cards they 'were supposed to get.'

The card that was exposed is shown to the whole table, and for all intents & purposes, the card is dead**. This card is then placed on the top of the deck (usually face-up), and used as a burn card the next time any cards are dealt.

If two cards are exposed during the deal, then it is a misdeal.

There is a very rare circumstance where the exposed card may reappear in a hand. If, in a 7-card stud game, there are not enough cards to deal everyone a river card, the burn cards will be shuffled in with the remaining deck stub and a single community river card will be dealt. And, the exposed card has the same chance of coming up as any of the other unseen cards.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
billryan
billryan
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March 25th, 2022 at 2:05:29 PM permalink
Quote: Joeman

Though I have not seen five-card draw in a poker room, I assume they would treat it like any other game. If one card is exposed (or falls of the table), the deal continues until everyone has all their cards. Then, the player whose card is exposed gets dealt a replacement. This way, everyone gets the cards they 'were supposed to get.'

The card that was exposed is shown to the whole table, and for all intents & purposes, the card is dead**. This card is then placed on the top of the deck (usually face-up), and used as a burn card the next time any cards are dealt.

If two cards are exposed during the deal, then it is a misdeal.

There is a very rare circumstance where the exposed card may reappear in a hand. If, in a 7-card stud game, there are not enough cards to deal everyone a river card, the burn cards will be shuffled in with the remaining deck stub and a single community river card will be dealt. And, the exposed card has the same chance of coming up as any of the other unseen cards.

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That sounds fair.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
Dieter
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Dieter
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March 25th, 2022 at 2:51:43 PM permalink
I can see why Joeman's way would be better in a poker room or if there was already action.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DJTeddyBear
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MrCasinoGamesDieter
March 25th, 2022 at 7:20:55 PM permalink
As some of you know, I'm a dealer in a pub poker league. I'm known in the league as the Rules Guru. I also occasionally post in the Tournament Director's Association forum.

Joeman's response, including the spoiler info, hits the nail right on the head.


For what it's worth, the TDA's official rules start with what pro poker players and TDA members affectionately refer to as "Rule 1":
Quote: TDA Rule 1

The best interest of the game and fairness are top priorities in decision-making. Unusual circumstances occasionally dictate that common-sense decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over technical rules. Floor decisions are final.

In other words, the poker manger is free to make a ruling that contradicts some rules, if an unusual situation dictates an unusual resolution, so long as its in the best interest of the game.

Therefore, don't beat yourself up since you didn't follow 'the rules'. After all, what you did made sense at the time.

Also, the 'rule' us there so as to not waste time. After all, wasted time means lost rake. Can't have that....
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
gordonm888
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MrCasinoGames
March 26th, 2022 at 7:08:19 AM permalink
I am in a highly organized home game in which players meet and vote on any rule changes once a year, etc.

A card that has been accidently exposed (flipped face up) during a deal is ruled as dead and is kept face up. The deal proceeds as if the card had not been exposed, and at the end the player with the upturned card is given what would have been the burn card prior to exposing the flop. The exposed card effectively becomes the burn card.

The principles are:

1. Accidental turning over one dealt card does not kill the other player hands and is NEVER allowed ro disrupt the order of subsequent cards being dealt to the players or being dealt to the flop, turn and river.

2. Everyone has equal information.

The exceptions are
1. If the dealer flips up a card that was being dealt to the small blind or big blind, the hand is dead.
2. If the dealer flips up 2 cards on the same deal then the hand is dead.
3. If someone declares that they can see one or more dealt cards because of the way that the dealer handles the deck, the hand is dead.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

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