ams288
ams288
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Gialmere
December 9th, 2018 at 4:50:36 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

I have another question for you PGP players this time concerning the joker...

If you use the joker to make a flush, would it be considered an ace so that your joker-high flush would beat an opponent's king-high flush?



Yes, the joker is an ace if you use it to complete a flush. If the flush already has an ace, then itís a king. If it already has an ace and a king, the joker is a queen. Etc, etc.
Lock him up!
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Gialmere
December 9th, 2018 at 5:08:22 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

Ah, I see. So your mileage may vary from state to state and casino to casino but in general: An unsuited Wheel is the second highest ranked straight and a suited Wheel is the highest ranked straight flush with a Royal Flush above it in its own separate category. Oddly the EZ Poker side bets I saw at Woo actually rank a Wheel (paired with a natural A/Q) as higher in status and envy payoffs (the main pay is the same). Ditto at the 5-card level. And why is it called "The Wheel" anyway? Is there a Pai Gow Tiles equivalent? I'm slowly working my way up to that game and have only scratched its surface, but I don't recall a "wheel" pairing. Why not call it a "Wong" or a "Gong" or a "Gwong"?

Forgive me if I seem obsessed with minutiae. I'm a hobbyist gamer who enjoys board games, card games, RPGs, VGs; you name it. (If you've ever heard of Reiner Knizia, Richard Garfield, Gary Gygax or Sid Myers you know the drill.) So in the category of casino games I'm merely a general practitioner as opposed to you specialists. (Casino games are certainly a unique category due to the associated glitz, glamour and MONEY!) I have, however, done some amateur game design (not casino games but a few friends did once build a craps table where you rolled 8-sided dice) and acted as a play tester for professional releases, so I'm used to making sure a game has all its T's crossed, its I's dotted, and some (hopefully) airtight rules. I've just never come across a caveat like "The Wheel" which seems to fly straight into the face of established (in this case) poker dogma.


Babs, I'm very sorry to hear about Dan Lubin. My condolences to you and his friends here. One of the pleasant surprises about finding this board is that several pro designers (such as yourself) are frequent posters. I saw elsewhere that he was one of them and had hoped to meet him on a thread since I'm moving into his area of expertise. Sadly, I'll never have that pleasure.



Thank you, but you should not confuse me and my single game sold so far, with successful game designers, of which there are several here. I have a new game in development (which it may never leave) and a couple rough math for sidebets in progress.

You just happened to ask about 1 card draw poker, which is the heart of OFTM. So I directed you to it. I haven't been to space, either. (TBBT joke - US show, not sure you would get the reference. )

As to calling it a wheel, i have no better answer than to say it's poker slang that goea back decades or longer. In case you hadn't heard, AKQJT is called Broadway. Three of a kind is usually called a set, not trips, and quads are sometimes called a case, especially when looking for the 4th card. ("His only out is the case 9")

As to joker rank, in nearly all casinos, the Joker is the highest missing card in rank that fills a flush. But we have had people say they had played places where it was treated as a second suited Ace, so that's not universal. There are also a few houses that play A-5 as the lowest straight, perhaps to lessen dealer errors between games, or player confusion. I know I've played at least one place that had it that way, but I don't recall where.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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rdw4potus
December 9th, 2018 at 10:21:01 PM permalink
You're too modest babs.
Quote:

The story of the quick rise of OM, from development, through licensing by SHFL (Shuffle Master), to success on the casino floor, is necessary reading if you have even a passing interest in creating and marketing your own casino table game...

...The game of OM is simple to learn and fast to play. It is also strategically interesting and volatile. The player has the possibility of two strategic decisions per hand and the possibility of winning or losing from 1 to 3 units in a hand. Given this combination of attributes, its rare success story is not a total surprise.


-Eliot Jacobson Ph.D.


"One for the Money" will never eclipse "Three Card Poker" at the top of the novelty game pyramid, but it IS a good game that IS played in casinos and that DOES make YOU a PROFESSIONAL game designer. I'm looking forward to your next release.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Gialmere
Gialmere
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August 8th, 2019 at 12:01:24 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

I have another question for you PGP players this time concerning the joker...

If you use the joker to make a flush, would it be considered an ace so that your joker-high flush would beat an opponent's king-high flush? If so, and your flush already contained an ace, would you then have a two ace-high flush and thus beat an opponant's ace-high flush?



Quote: ams288

Yes, the joker is an ace if you use it to complete a flush. If the flush already has an ace, then itís a king. If it already has an ace and a king, the joker is a queen. Etc, etc.


Another clarification if possible...

What about cards in a banker's hand that form a flush in the same suit as your own?

For example, you have a K, 10, 6 and 4 in hearts along with the joker acting as the A. The banker has an A, Q, 9, 8 and 2 in hearts. Who wins? Does your king break the tie? Or is your joker downgraded to a jack since the true ace of hearts is already involved in the flush vs flush showdown?
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Gialmere
August 8th, 2019 at 12:21:34 PM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

Another clarification if possible...

What about cards in a banker's hand that form a flush in the same suit as your own? By

For example, you have a K, 10, 6 and 4 in hearts along with the joker acting as the A. The banker has an A, Q, 9, 8 and 2 in hearts. Who wins? Does your king break the tie? Or is your joker downgraded to a jack since the true ace of hearts is already involved in the flush vs flush showdown?



Your joker is the ace, and your flush is higher because you have the king. It doesn't matter that the ace of hearts is in play.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
sodawater
sodawater
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August 8th, 2019 at 7:43:53 PM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

Ok, let me try again. There is no guaranteed winning hand in pai gow poker, only in pai gow tiles - gee joon and a teen pair.



gee joon and day pair is just as good.
TinMan
TinMan
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September 3rd, 2019 at 10:27:31 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The wheel being the second highest straight/straight flush in pai gow poker I think is perhaps the stupidest rule in all of casino gambling. Can anyone top it? A rule that adds senseless complexity to a game, is counter to standard rules, and has absolutely no upside to either player nor dealer.



One possibility: a 0/0 tie in PGT goes to the banker automatically, unlike all other ties that go to high tile. This may not qualify because the rule does have an upside to the banker, but if player and house take turns banking then the benefit is evenly distributed so no net benefit to either. Just a weird caveat to the usual tie breaking rules.

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