How do you unring a bell?
Player A moves all in, and Player B is contemplating whether or not to call. Player C, who is not in the hand, violates the one player to a hand rule by encouraging B to make the call. Player B makes the call with only a marginal holding and eliminates Player A.
Obviously Player C would be subject to severe penalties (I personally would favor DQing). That said, that doesn't change the fact that Player A was hosed out of his tournament life when he probably wouldn't have been had Player C kept his mouth shut.
Do the rules allow for any redress for Player A? Would a reputable cardroom refund his buy-in out of their own account? Is there any way for Player A to retain his tournament life?
Most likely here's what happens... Player A is eliminated. Player B is warned. Player C should be given penalties (possibly DQ), but regardless should get his knees broke after the tournament. Then Player C will never do that again.
1. Don't play in Indian casinos.
2: Expect "hometown rulings" wherever you go. The two other players were regulars.
3. At an absolute minimum, the player who opened his mouth should have had his balls burned off with a blowtorch.
I probably didn't lose all that much in equity, but ten years later, that incident still rankles, and I've never been back.
The only possible staff error is that the dealer arguably should have been quicker to control the action, and immediately stopped him from trying to surrender his hand even before the other player properly spoke up. Failing that, every player in the tournament, not just in the hand or at the table, can and should be stopping you from being awarded that pot. With no further betting action possible in tournament play, the cards must be turned up and the board dealt out. Anything else amounts to chip dumping. The only player who didn't try to do the wrong thing was the one who spoke up.
A shame that the room putting on that small tournament was not equipped with a paddle or stiff leather belt to administer a couple of good hard spankings to both the players involved in the hand: the one who tried to fold and the one who thinks he was entitled to the pot.
Quote: JoeshlabotnikBarona casino, a few years ago, small buy-in tourney paying five places, six players left. I go all in preflop and get one caller. The flop misses me--I have AQs--but my opponent chuckles and tosses his hand. The hand doesn't hit the muck, though, and a third player, not in the hand, says "he's all in, you don't have to fold." He hastily retrieves his hand and needless to say, pairs his 7 on the river. I protest, but the floorjerk says there's nothing he can do.
1. Don't play in Indian casinos.
2: Expect "hometown rulings" wherever you go. The two other players were regulars.
3. At an absolute minimum, the player who opened his mouth should have had his balls burned off with a blowtorch.
I probably didn't lose all that much in equity, but ten years later, that incident still rankles, and I've never been back.
Quote: DrawingDeadThe management of the poker room was right, the two still involved in the hand were wrong, and it isn't close or ambiguous. The reason the floor said there was nothing he could do is because there was nothing he could or should do, except to retrieve the caller's hand and place it face-up upon the table, including from the muck if necessary. Heads-up against an all-in player in a tournament, he cannot fold his hand, and cannot ever be allowed to, regardless of whether he is simply innocently stupid enough to think he wants to try to do that.
Correct. The first thing that went wrong there was that the dealer didn't wait for both hands to be tabled before bringing the flop.
ETA: TDA rule #15. www.pokertda.com/view-poker-tda-rules
Yes that would piss me off in a cash game, keep your mouth shut in situations like that. I'm not sure exactly what or how that should be handled but I have had a lot worst happen to me in LV rooms. Sometimes people just dont think, they make a mistake and say something they shouldn't, sometimes you just have to say it It is what it is. Hopefully you gave him an ear full and he won't do that agian.Quote: JoeshlabotnikBarona casino, a few years ago, small buy-in tourney paying five places, six players left. I go all in preflop and get one caller. The flop misses me--I have AQs--but my opponent chuckles and tosses his hand. The hand doesn't hit the muck, though, and a third player, not in the hand, says "he's all in, you don't have to fold." He hastily retrieves his hand and needless to say, pairs his 7 on the river. I protest, but the floorjerk says there's nothing he can do.
1. Don't play in Indian casinos.
2: Expect "hometown rulings" wherever you go. The two other players were regulars.
3. At an absolute minimum, the player who opened his mouth should have had his balls burned off with a blowtorch.
I probably didn't lose all that much in equity, but ten years later, that incident still rankles, and I've never been back.
"1) Don't play in Indian casinos."
That's is bad advice along with don't ever gamble online. Both oftentimes have very good value. Obviously one should use more caution.
I don't know poker room rules well enough to say what would happen, but I hope they do not go easily on player C.
Regarding Joeshlabotnik's issue, DrawingDead hit the nail on the head.
Also note that there is something of a movement among the Poker Tournament Director's Association members to invoke Rule One more often, to prevent players from winning on a technicality.
Quote: TDA Rule 11: Floor Decisions
The best interest of the game and fairness are top priorities in decision-making. Unusual circumstances occasionally dictate that decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over technical rules. Floor decisions are final.
However, one player per hand is the rule in the casino, and should also be enforced at home if money is on the line. Advising others, especially when the adviser has knowledge of cards that others have not seen is, in a word, cheating. I see this a lot amongst older players who think they are just playing with their buddies, or want to show the player next to them their cards before they muck them, so that when their inside straight draw or small pair hits the board, they can commiserate. Fortunately, I suppose, there always seems to be a "Lawyer" at every table who complains about every jot and tittle that goes wrong.
