Suited AQ or A Pair of Jacks?
Poll
 | 1 vote (5.55%) | ||
| | 14 votes (77.77%) | ||
| | 3 votes (16.66%) | ||
| No votes (0%) |
18 members have voted
I'd say the JJ is about 53% vs 47% for AQs
Quote: GreasyjohnI'm almost certain that JJ has a higher percentage rating as a starting hand than AQs. Perhaps AQs can win more money in the long run. But AQs can't make a straight as easily against JJ than against a pair of sixes (which I'm certain also has a higher starting win percentage than AQs).
I'd say the JJ is about 53% vs 47% for AQs
That's pretty much all there is to it. JJ has the cold equity edge plain and simple. If someone offered to take AQ vs my JJ, bet 100$ and run the board over and over again I'd set up a tent and never leave.
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tools/odds-calculator/texas-holdem
You've "won more" with the AQ because you probably haven't been in that situation enough times. If you always got your money in with AQ suited vs Jacks for the rest of your life, you would absolutely lose.
Almost any time you run in to "2 suited overs vs a smaller pair" it's going to be about 52-48. Then comes the minute percentages for if the pair breaks up the straight possibilities of the suited overs, etc, etc.
Quote: RomesIt's 53%-46%, with a 1% change of tie... in favor of the Jacks. It's not an opinion, it's math; the jacks are better.
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tools/odds-calculator/texas-holdem
You've "won more" with the AQ because you probably haven't been in that situation enough times. If you always got your money in with AQ suited vs Jacks for the rest of your life, you would absolutely lose.
Almost any time you run in to "2 suited overs vs a smaller pair" it's going to be about 52-48. Then comes the minute percentages for if the pair breaks up the straight possibilities of the suited overs, etc, etc.
" In No Limit Hold Em, which would you prefer to start with, a pair of Jacks, or suited AQ? " That was the question !
Nit which hand would you prefer in a head to head match ? I'll stick with AQ as a starter in a loose game all day ling.
They're the same answer lol. Okay, let's play a game where you always start with AQ and I always start with JJ =).Quote: redjohn" In No Limit Hold Em, which would you prefer to start with, a pair of Jacks, or suited AQ? " That was the question !
Nit which hand would you prefer in a head to head match ? I'll stick with AQ as a starter in a loose game all day ling.
Any actual player should 'prefer' to start with the better hand =P.
Quote: Romes...Any actual player should 'prefer' to start with the better hand =P.
That depends on what the "better" hand is. I'll take 9,8 suited over a pair of deuces all day long :-)~
Quote: Romes
Any actual player should 'prefer' to start with the better hand =P.
Which one is better? I think you gave the odds for these hands against each other in a showdown - is that the same thing has having one of them pre-flop on a full table with position and a large stack of chips to play with?
Quote: RomesThey're the same answer lol. Okay, let's play a game where you always start with AQ and I always start with JJ =).
Any actual player should 'prefer' to start with the better hand =P.
Ok lets do that is a game full of calling stations. See how often you JJ hold up against 8 hands. Math is not the ultimate factor in no limit. Try position and being able to put a player on a hand. You did say no limit, didn't you ?
You realize your AQ needs to hit against call stations where as your JJ just needs to hold up, right? ...Which side of that battle do you wanna be on again?Quote: redjohnOk lets do that is a game full of calling stations. See how often you JJ hold up against 8 hands. Math is not the ultimate factor in no limit. Try position and being able to put a player on a hand. You did say no limit, didn't you ?
Email Negreanu about how highly he thinks of A-Q.
Love it when a Math guy at table complains about my not having odds to call. Hey, it's no limit. Some players are just predisposed to call with second best hand against an all in.
Bye Have Fun.
Quote: redjohnWith lots of calling station your jacks will lose a hell of a lot of times after the river. And you will be there a lot. I can get away from AQ, very easily. Especially against an unraised flop. Go ahead raise with your jacks preflop. Aint no body leaving in a loose game. Play what you want Whole argument is asinine. Aint mucking neither hand in an unraised hand preflop. Raising myself or calling a raise more dependent on position and the other players.
Love it when a Math guy at table complains about my not having odds to call. Hey, it's no limit. Some players are just predisposed to call with second best hand against an all in.
Bye Have Fun.
I find it funny these kind of contradict one another. "Jacks will never be good"... "I don't have to hit anything with my A-Q!"Quote: rdw4potusUnless we're playing a limit game, AQs does not need to hit in order for me to be the last person holding cards. And, if the flop comes K-10-X, I'm pretty sure I can bet to push you off of those jacks.
rdw4potus, you're siting 1 specific flop. What about the flop 2-2-2, or 3-3-3, or 4-4-4, or 5-5-5, etc, etc, etc. There are MORE advantageous situations for Jacks, which is WHY they're a 53%-46% favorite.
For the record, I'm more of a read and feel player in poker, but to be as proficient at the game as I possibly can I learned the math 100% too. redjohn you're saying "Go ahead raise with your jacks preflop. Aint no body leaving in a loose game." lol... So much to say about that. Either 1, small ball it (which most pro's do because they'll win out in the long run) or two, find the number... Find the number in which they will fold. If not... THEN SHOVE, every time you get something like Jacks. Here's your outcomes:
1) EVERYONE CALLS BECAUSE EVERYONE IS A CALL STATION... In this case you should be playing small ball just calling until you have the nuts then shoving to get all the callers then.
2) NOT everyone calls and you're a FAVORITE when you got your money in.
Either way JJ is better than AQ, by the math, by the play, however you want. Anyone who really really really wants to argue the AQ... I want to play poker with you.
The big part of your post is "when you hit..." ...with JJ I've already hit.
Conversly if I go with JJ, the last thing I wanna see is QQ KK AA AK AQ... hands with a better initial chance of improvement.
Either hand listed AQs or JJ is worthy of a shove... Jacks the better shove, and should call an AQ (figuring you know your adversary).
I've played this both ways, as I'm sure many poker players have.
NO vote, I think regular poker players get coin outta both hands.
The question is asinine. Depends on information not given. Who are other opponents ? Tournament, low limit, no limit. Just so much info not given to expect an answer of any note.
Knowing nothing else, JJ... knowing your Opponent(s) is 100% different, as others have said.
+10
I would agree with you in a pure mathematical sense. All in pre flop JJ is certainly better.Quote: RomesThey're the same answer lol. Okay, let's play a game where you always start with AQ and I always start with JJ =).
Any actual player should 'prefer' to start with the better hand =P.
However I would rather play with AQ SS in a ring game and get heads up vs JJ as long as I have position.
If you have my number text me ill send you a picture of my JJ and a big pot felting some D-bag with over 2k at Caesars recently.
Normally I don't really like to find joy in a players misery but in this case I certainly enjoyed it. The look at his face was priceless. Apparently he built up is stack all night before I arrived. He played with an arrogant style. I get obnoxious at times with certain players but not arrogant to other players.
So without all of the other information others have also said (table image, other players hand selection, calling stations, etc) JJ wins.Quote: AxelWolfI would agree with you in a pure mathematical sense. All in pre flop JJ is certainly better.
I would take AQ ss too, if I was heads up, against a calling station, hit my A, saw both his cards, and it was a Tuesday... Sounds like you have several qualifications for your AQ suited, which is fine, AQ suited is a great hand, but that's not the question. The question of the pole/thread is given nothing else (heads up, position, etc, etc) would you rather AQ suited or JJ? JJ is the black and white right answer to me.Quote: AxelWolfHowever I would rather play with AQ SS in a ring game and get heads up vs JJ as long as I have position.
I'd love to see it =p. I agree usually there isn't a ton of satisfaction in others misery, but I've seen these obnoxious guys and I think we all agree it feels good when they lose =). You've got my #!Quote: AxelWolfIf you have my number text me ill send you a picture of my JJ and a big pot felting some D-bag with over 2k at Caesars recently.
Normally I don't really like to find joy in a players misery but in this case I certainly enjoyed it. The look at his face was priceless. Apparently he built up is stack all night before I arrived. He played with an arrogant style. I get obnoxious at times with certain players but not arrogant to other players.
They are not the same in the WoO power rankings. Nor are they the same on other ranking list I have looked at.
