Limit holdem

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Quote: frisbee25

What are peoples thoughts on marginal hands like kq first in 9 handed and aj first in 8 handed etc?

I assume you're talking about a money game.

1. As is true with all marginal hands, the right strategy depends upon the tendencies of the actual players at the table.
2. The problem with these hands is, what do you do if you're raised? At a tight table (which is normal in limit) that has solid players, I would fold to a raise.
3. If you do bet and you're called and an ace comes out on the flop - there is an excellent chance you are beat with either of these hands. In that situation, I would normally bet after the flop but if that bet is called or raised I am likely not putting additional money into the pot.
4. Indeed, if you are called or raised preflop by anyone other than the blinds, exactly what flop are you hoping for? Remember that the other player has position on you and if you check after the flop and your opponent bets you will have a very hard decision to make.
5. So given all of the above, what is your upside on making this bet? Well everyone behind you might fold and you can scoop up the blinds. Or, perhaps you get a miracle flop, like AAJ to your AJ. Or perhaps you lead out post-flop with a bet and the other player folds. But every other scenario requires that you make multiple hard decisions without position in order to win the hand.

Again, everything depends upon the table. But I find that when playing first position at a large Limit hold'em table, I generally do better when I play conservatively. I prefer a monster hand to open with in first position, otherwise I throw my hand away and study the other players.

In general, I raise early and call late with hands like those in limit holdem (especially lower limit). Worst case when you raise is someone re-raises and it costs you one extra bet to see the flop, but most likely you've thinned the field.

Raising late usually doesn't do much good. Everyone is already in and most will just call the raise.



ZCore13

Quote: Zcore13

In general, I raise early and call late with hands like those in limit holdem (especially lower limit). Worst case when you raise is someone re-raises and it costs you one extra bet to see the flop, but most likely you've thinned the field.

Raining late usually doesn't do much good. Everyone is already in and most will just call the raise.



ZCore13

+1 The nice thing about limit with these hands, is that you have a chance to get in cheap, and maybe hit a flop. In any case, representing your hand as a strong pair may still allow you to buy the pot with a continuation bet/raise after a weak rainbow flop. If you still have hangers on to the turn, you may want to consider dropping out, as you are probably beat. By that time, everyone on the train will be riding to the last station.

No non pair not dominated like AK says that chart. I think I can't figure it out post flop well enough to make it worth playing. If you get re raised every hand or flop seems to tough.

Quote: frisbee25

What are peoples thoughts on marginal hands like kq first in 9 handed and aj first in 8 handed etc?

There's a big difference (in my opinion) to limit and no limit with the hands/positioning you're referring to above. Limit is a drawing game, much like Omaha. Limp when you're weak or possibly dominated, bet when you have the best hand or a powerful draw. I would just call with these marginal hands as if you raise with AJ, who's to say AQ doesn't just call, then an Ace lands and you bet all the way down to find out you're dominated. Better yet, limp with AJ, and when the other person raises then bets the Ace flop, you can have a clue that perhaps they do have AK or AQ.

In limit it's harder to put someone in a really touch spot than no limit where you can go all in and make it hard for someone to call. Since you lose that ability I personally think it's much more worth gathering more information (limp and let them raise) to gauge where you are since every limit bet becomes slightly more important given you can make a huge bet to recoup.

How can you figure out if its worth calling down on an ace flop without one if you don't know the percentage of ace hands they play from 6 handed to 4 handed in fixed limit?

Playing marginal high hands in limit is what keeps you from being profitable. You will lose one big bet, possibly more depending on frequency, rather than winning one big bet per hour.