scubatim84
scubatim84
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Joined: Sep 3, 2014
February 16th, 2015 at 7:07:34 PM permalink
So question for you guys...one thing I don't see mentioned too often in the stuff I've been reading is when to call an all-in raise pre-flop. I'll give you a specific example and I'm wondering if I played this correctly or not.

I was in an online micro stakes tourny, 1:8 cash ratio, 75/150 blinds and not near the bubble (too early for that). Hadn't seen a good hand in a long time and had about 2,100 chips. I pulled QQ pre-flop and opened the pot with 450. Ended up having 2 callers and then 3rd person went all-in with 5,700 chips. I know pre-flop it's really a coin toss to who catches a better pair or flops a set, but I called because I knew the only thing that could beat me was KK or AA, which is only 2 potential combinations out of all of them, but then of course flop came and the all-in person had AK and they caught another A on flop. I didn't get any help on turn or river. Plus I was getting close to 10xBB so wasn't quite short stacked but definitely getting there.

So pre-flop, do you ever call an all-in? What if you think they're trying to steal and they may not have anything? (IE they went all-in a lot recently and/or are short stacked).

What about after the flop? I know you then at least can calculate pot odds, outs, etc. but unless you have the nut would you ever call all-in?
tringlomane
tringlomane
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February 16th, 2015 at 7:46:54 PM permalink
Call pre.

If he flat called, and an A or K comes on the flop, then it's a lot more messy. I would use any behavior I noticed before as a judge. Like if he had been betting a lot at the table, I would lean to calling more.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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February 17th, 2015 at 8:56:08 AM permalink
I think you made the right call, especially given your stack size. You were on the good side of a 51/49 race.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Romes
Romes
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February 17th, 2015 at 9:10:22 AM permalink
You easily made the right decision, both from a math standpoint and a playing one. Quite often after opening for 3x and a couple callers another more aggressive player will pop the pot just to pick up the blinds plus 3x raise/calls. Think about it. This guy had 5700 chips. Assuming you raised to 450 UTG, 2 callers, and just the blinds (no antes), that means there's 1575 in the pot. If this guy shoves and everyone folds, he adds almost 30% to his stack! If you have AK, so long as no one has AA you're not in awful shape. Even if someone has KK you're still about a 2-1, getting almost 3-1 for your money. In the above described situation, if I was him with AK, I would shove 99.9% of the time.

Now this depends on your game, how aggressive you are, etc, but at least from a math standpoint it makes sense if he thinks you have any pair other than AA, to shove. I also love this play from a practical standpoint, especially if you were around the money when most people tighten up. I've been in tournaments where I've doubled, tripled, and quadrupled my stack without having to even see a flop because you pick up the raises/blinds at the right time and are fortunate enough not to run in to a monster hand.

Okay, back to your call =p. After reviewing above you should see how any 'aggressive' players range could be quite huge here, which your QQ would have relatively crushed. After that, you're not short stacked just yet, but you almost were... Thus, you needed to start making some plays to get chips. Getting it in pre with QQ is never 'that' bad of a decision unless you have some crazy read. In the end realistically you were a slight favorite to about 2.5x your stack, so again, it was a very good call.

Things to consider when going all in preflop: Risk vs Reward... How likely are you to get called? How much is in the pot? What kind of shape would you be in if you were to get called? These all weigh against one another. If the pot is huge, but you're pretty much guaranteed to get called and be in bad shape, then not worth it. Now if the pot is marginal, but you figure you're not very likely to get called, and even if you do you're in a coin flip, then it probably is worth it. It's situational.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
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