Fairfax SWAT team raids private game
Not sure if this has been posted yet. (I'm guessing not.)
Most egregious to me: the offer to only keep 40% of the seized money and let everyone out of a misdemeanor on their records.
Quote: rudeboyoiYou have a group of people voluntarily playing a game for money. You have another group break-in and rob them. Who are the real criminals here?
Quote: article“Taking a cut” is what elevates a poker game, in the minds of the Fairfax police, into a criminal enterprise.
I agree with you but this bit plus the amount of money involved ... they were pushing their luck.
When will we be going back to payoffs? Call up the Sheriff, say "We'd like to have a little card game next weekend... and none of my friends particularly like getting raided and harassed. Can't we save you some time by just paying you $3000 up front, you don't have to get your equipment dirty, and you can spend the night looking for the real troublemakers?"
Quote: DieterIf it's wrong for $20,000, isn't it also wrong for $10,000 or $100?
When will we be going back to payoffs? Call up the Sheriff, say "We'd like to have a little card game next weekend... and none of my friends particularly like getting raided and harassed. Can't we save you some time by just paying you $3000 up front, you don't have to get your equipment dirty, and you can spend the night looking for the real troublemakers?"
That would be great.
This is the part that sucks:
Quote:In 2013, the Supreme Court considered and then declined to rule on whether poker qualified as a game of skill, and the Great Falls case appeared ripe to make legal history. But...
<snip>
...The defendants decided to take their deals and keep their mouths shut.
Quote: odiousgambitI agree with you but this bit plus the amount of money involved ... they were pushing their luck.
Doesn't matter if they were pushing their luck. What matters is this belief people hold that words written on a piece of paper (the law) excuses certain people from acting in a moral fashion. There is nothing criminal about gambling. There is nothing criminal about taking a cut. What's criminal is robbing people. A crime requires a victim. The victims were the players/host that were robbed. We will never advance humanity as long as people hold onto this asinine belief that some magical words written on a piece of paper excuse people from acting humanely.
Quote: rudeboyoiDoesn't matter if they were pushing their luck. What matters is this belief people hold that words written on a piece of paper (the law) excuses certain people from acting in a moral fashion. There is nothing criminal about gambling. There is nothing criminal about taking a cut. What's criminal is robbing people. A crime requires a victim. The victims were the players/host that were robbed. We will never advance humanity as long as people hold onto this asinine belief that some magical words written on a piece of paper excuse people from acting humanely.
But rudeboyoy, they were protecting these guys from the evil Asian syndicates! That were coming to rob them of their money!
Quote:An informant apparently assisted the police with their investigation, the regular player and lawyers said. A new player joined the game the week before the raid, the regular player said, and it was clear to the poker vets that “he didn’t know what he was doing” while playing Omaha, a nine-card version of hold ‘em poker.
You'd think they could at least train up their patsy in the correct card game...
Quote: AcesAndEightsBut rudeboyoy, they were protecting these guys from the evil Asian syndicates! That were coming to rob them of their money!
Hehe. We're going to rob you to prevent you from getting robbed!
Quote: rudeboyoiYou have a group of people voluntarily playing a game for money. You have another group break-in and rob them. Who are the real criminals here?
Rare that I agree with Rude.... but I do this time..... What needs to happen is the law needs to be changed..... Kind of like what happened in Colorado with marijuana... A bad law was identified, and the legislators fixed it....
It really is amazing that gambling in your own house with a bunch of friends is illegal.....
Quote: sodawaterVirginia is not a nice place to live.
The only state that bans radar detectors.
Quote: 1BBThe only state that bans radar detectors.
Insane -- auto journalist gets three days in jail for speeding:
http://jalopnik.com/never-speed-in-virginia-lessons-from-my-three-days-in-1613604053
Quote: SOOPOORare that I agree with Rude.... but I do this time..... What needs to happen is the law needs to be changed..... Kind of like what happened in Colorado with marijuana... A bad law was identified, and the legislators fixed it....
It really is amazing that gambling in your own house with a bunch of friends is illegal.....
Well that's a start :)
The problem with repealing a law is that it placates people while numerous other laws are being put into effect. Government grows like a virus and in order to meet their financial obligations they have to "criminalize" more behavior, regulate more industry, and tax more trade. When the people become complacent it hinders the liberty movement and might then reach a point where it becomes too late to achieve liberty peacefully.
Quote: sodawaterVirginia is not a nice place to live.
I live in VA and I can tell you Fairfax County cops had the worst reputation of all for being heavy handed... this going 'way back'
[otherwise I don't agree with your sentiment LOL]
Quote: SOOPOORare that I agree with Rude.... but I do this time..... What needs to happen is the law needs to be changed..... Kind of like what happened in Colorado with marijuana... A bad law was identified, and the legislators fixed it....
It really is amazing that gambling in your own house with a bunch of friends is illegal.....
Clearly it wasn't with a bunch of friends if a police patsy made it into the game.
And it was clearly a for profit enterprise.
1.5% of a 20K buy in is $300. If there's 20 such buy ins in a night the host is making 6K.
More than enough to justify prison time.
When you are running a game with a 20k min buy in and involving 100s of k a night, its only a matter of time before you get busted, I am surprised it did not happen sooner.
Was the swat team overkill? (that seems to be the biggest controversy, at least in the article). Maybe. At the same time when you are dealing with an illicit gaming operation involving 100s of thousands, there is a good chance some organized crime bigshots are involved. So I don't fault the police for being overly cautious. And, its not like the SWAT team acted inappropriately. It sounds like they got off pretty easy anyway as long as they agree to keep their game shut down.
