Are my opponents extremely lazy or are they trying to play psychological tricks on me?

Over the last 2 days of me playing poker, this situation has happened at least 4 times (3 different opponents).

I reach out for my chips and before I'm even finished, the opponent folds without even knowing how much I'm betting. One time they folded as soon as my hands touch my chips.

2 of the times when that happened I actually had something and was deciding how much to bet to make the opponent call when they just folded out of turn. In other 2 times I actually was very weak and deciding what's the minimal amount I can bluff to drive them out or just check.

This seems like extremely -EV for the opponents to do. It's 0 EV when I have something good and when I have something bad it's horribly -EV for them.

So why do they do it? Are they just too lazy? Or are they trying to set some kind of psychological trap like "so when I don't immediately fold you'd think I actually have something" to try to bluff me later?

This is common. They are folding no matter what you bet. They probably also want you to know that they have a weak hand for ego reasons -- they don't want anyone at the table to think that you bluffed them.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

This is common.

Strange. How can anything at all be common in poker and yet a serious poker player finds that it happened "Over the last 2 days, this situation has happened at least 4 times (3 different opponents).".

Or did I miss something such as Neutrino is a neophyte player?

I think I would find it annoying but perhaps that is one reason I do not play poker.

Unless you are playing > 2/5NL or 10/20L, I think it is usually best to assume unknown players are lazy, impulsive, and not very bright, until they've done something to demonstrate otherwise. I find that assigning complex thoughtful motives to people in small to middling stakes games tends to cost money more often than not.

Quote: Neutrino

Over the last 2 days of me playing poker, this situation has happened at least 4 times (3 different opponents).

I reach out for my chips and before I'm even finished, the opponent folds without even knowing how much I'm betting. One time they folded as soon as my hands touch my chips.

2 of the times when that happened I actually had something and was deciding how much to bet to make the opponent call when they just folded out of turn. In other 2 times I actually was very weak and deciding what's the minimal amount I can bluff to drive them out or just check.

This seems like extremely -EV for the opponents to do. It's 0 EV when I have something good and when I have something bad it's horribly -EV for them.

So why do they do it? Are they just too lazy? Or are they trying to set some kind of psychological trap like "so when I don't immediately fold you'd think I actually have something" to try to bluff me later?

I find it odd that you play a lot of poker yet have never seen this before. It is very very common. In fact, there are many times where I have no plans on betting but will start cutting out chips to see if I can induce a fold.

Quote: GWAE

I find it odd that you play a lot of poker yet have never seen this before. It is very very common. In fact, there are many times where I have no plans on betting but will start cutting out chips to see if I can induce a fold.

If someone is reaching for chips when its your turn, usually right as your about to grab chips. This is a common tell that they DON'T want you to bet. Most people act weak when strong, and strong when weak. Most people are trying to fool you while playing poker and put on an act.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

This is common. They are folding no matter what you bet. They probably also want you to know that they have a weak hand for ego reasons -- they don't want anyone at the table to think that you bluffed them.

this is exactly right. Sometimes it's not ego, they just want to get to the next hand.

I see it often when I deal in my poker league (as well as when I play in casinos).

At the leage games, I tell them they should wait thier turn. The response is "I had crap. Let's not waste time."

Frankly, it's a bad move because if they'd wait, they can get better reads by knowing the bet size etc.


I also occasionally see people check-out. One guy was cured of that when the hand ended up with a full house on the board and the other players got their chips back, plus a share of his chips!

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I see it often when I deal in my poker league (as well as when I play in casinos).

At the leage games, I tell them they should wait thier turn. The response is "I had crap. Let's not waste time."

Frankly, it's a bad move because if they'd wait, they can get better reads by knowing the bet size etc.


I also occasionally see people check-out. One guy was cured of that when the hand ended up with a full house on the board and the other players got their chips back, plus a share of his chips!

I will never understand why poker players on the right bitch when someone folds before they do. I even see "pro's" do it.

That's dumb.

It's great extra information, the only people that should be bitching is the players who act after this guy. I

love when people act out of turn, before I act. Obviously you need to be careful its not a move. If they bet out of turn it should be binding if you don't change the action.

Quote: FleaStiff

a serious poker player

lol

I just looked at the title and knew this would be a Neutrino thread...lol

Quote: Beethoven9th

I just looked at the title and knew this would be a Neutrino thread...lol

QFT. And we're feeding him.

Quote: Beethoven9th

I just looked at the title and knew this would be a Neutrino thread...lol

haha that was my first thought also.

I think it would be very entertaining if he posted some of his questions on 2+2

Quote: Neutrino

So why do they do it? Are they just too lazy? Or are they trying to set some kind of psychological trap like "so when I don't immediately fold you'd think I actually have something" to try to bluff me later?

They don't have anything, and they've decided they aren't gonna call regardless of what you bet. I wouldn't ascribe that kind of thinking to these low stakes players. They don't know what they're doing, they don't consider the possibility that now's the time to fire off a bluff-raise, and/or they don't have the ballz to attempt a play like a triple barrel bluff. You can be pretty safe in assuming they are fish until they demonstrate otherwise.

It gets even more ridiculous when they do bluff the river and muck as the call money hits the felt before they even see what I'm calling with. If he'd've held onto his K-high, maybe he'd seen he could beat the Q-high I was using as a bluff-catcher.

There is no accounting for some of the way these mega-fish play.

Anything mental or psychological takes place in the mind. It's not so much what they are doing to you, the question is, "why am I doing this to myself". You need to let go and understand you are at the will of your own subconscious. Why am I thinking of this? I have some recurring thoughts. It could be stress...

Think about it, say your playing in the BB you get a lot of limpers your hand is 2-5 off, of course you take the free flop your already vested... so the flop comes, 3 over cards nowhere giving you any type of decent draw. you already know your folding to any bet... you would have folded pre flop to any bet... so when you see someone in front of you going to bet you fold.... however i feel this is more pyschological on the betters part and not the folders part. you as a better is making motion to bet to a weaker hand.. he tosses his cards in the muck, whether or not your intention was to bet at all..