How to play the turn?
July 26th, 2014 at 11:29:05 AM
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Leak Hand found and Converted by Leak Buster
Poker Training Software
NL Holdem $0.5(BB)
BB ($56.2)
UTG ($30.63)
HJ ($50)
CO ($16.15)
HERO ($84.24)
Dealt to Hero 9:heart: J:heart:
UTG Folds , HJ Folds , CO Folds , HERO Raises To $1.5 , BB Calls $1
Flop ($2.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club:
BB Checks , HERO Bets $2 , BB Calls $2
Turn ($6.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club: 5:heart:
BB Checks , HERO Bets $4 , BB Raises To $16 , HERO Calls $12
River ($38.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club: 5:heart: 7:diamond:
BB Bets $36.7 (all-in), HERO Calls $36.7
Opponent is an aggressive regular 24/21. Do you shove or just fold the turn?
Poker Training Software
NL Holdem $0.5(BB)
BB ($56.2)
UTG ($30.63)
HJ ($50)
CO ($16.15)
HERO ($84.24)
Dealt to Hero 9:heart: J:heart:
UTG Folds , HJ Folds , CO Folds , HERO Raises To $1.5 , BB Calls $1
Flop ($2.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club:
BB Checks , HERO Bets $2 , BB Calls $2
Turn ($6.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club: 5:heart:
BB Checks , HERO Bets $4 , BB Raises To $16 , HERO Calls $12
River ($38.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club: 5:heart: 7:diamond:
BB Bets $36.7 (all-in), HERO Calls $36.7
Opponent is an aggressive regular 24/21. Do you shove or just fold the turn?
July 26th, 2014 at 1:40:14 PM
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Quote: mustafizLeak Hand found and Converted by Leak Buster
Poker Training Software
NL Holdem $0.5(BB)
BB ($56.2)
UTG ($30.63)
HJ ($50)
CO ($16.15)
HERO ($84.24)
Dealt to Hero 9:heart: J:heart:
UTG Folds , HJ Folds , CO Folds , HERO Raises To $1.5 , BB Calls $1
Flop ($2.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club:
BB Checks , HERO Bets $2 , BB Calls $2
Turn ($6.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club: 5:heart:
BB Checks , HERO Bets $4 , BB Raises To $16 , HERO Calls $12
River ($38.5) J:diamond: 2:heart: T:club: 5:heart: 7:diamond:
BB Bets $36.7 (all-in), HERO Calls $36.7
Opponent is an aggressive regular 24/21. Do you shove or just fold the turn?
Im by no means a pro but i like that top pair J with the flush draw after the turn... The straight call by the BB after the post flop bet and then the raise after the turn to me makes me think BB is holding large pockets. The initial call with no raise prior to that big post-turn raise seems suspect to me. Unless of course he got lucky and hit the set of 5s on the turn.
To the original question though I like that hand on an all in especially based on the betting history of the opponent. However that Jhigh flush draw isnt so high for me to push all in post turn... Maybe K high flush draw with a better kicker on the top pair...
.
August 21st, 2014 at 9:10:43 AM
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- What was the outcome of the hand? =p
Obviously opinions vary from player to player, and from amateur to pro. Daniel Negreanu expressed over and over that the raise you made pre-flop here is not a good raise, especially knowing your opponent is an aggressive regular. He's more likely to have a much wider range of anything to 'defend' his BB with so your raise doesn't help you put him on any kind of hand, and then after the flop, you're out of position and more/less forced to C-Bet in to an aggressive player whom if you hit nothing and he raises you that puts you in a really bad spot with a building pot. Most pro's like to exercise a bit more pot control; building a pot when they know they're ahead.
So you've made your raise and the flop comes and you bet, he calls, and we go to your question of what to do on the turn. When he raises you on the turn you're 'more than likely' in one of three scenario's:
1) Trying to slow play a big pair or big flopped hand (you're beat)
2) The 5 helped his hand (7-5, 5-5, etc) (you're beat)
3) He's bluffing (you're ahead)
An aggressive player as you described would more than likely raise with J-x or even T-x on the flop to find out where he was / take the pot. The call, then raise on the turn reeks of a hand that beats your top pair, or a bluff. Again, most pro's here would exercise pot control and just call the turn. Normally shoving here semi-strong with a draw isn't a bad idea, but the way the hand played out it's a -EV play either way in my opinion. If he has a massive hand you're getting your money in behind and probably about 35% to catch (if 2-pair or trips even makes you good). If he's bluffing then you're missing an opportunity for you to improve your hand and/or let him bluff at it again, maximizing your value for the hand.
Him shoving on the river actually makes it a bit of a tougher call. It looks a bit more like a bluff now because if he had a massive hand he might try to get maximum value out of it with a half pot-ish bet. Without being in the situation, knowing the player, it's definitely tough to say... but only from what you described thus far I would say calling the turn is the proper play.
In hind-site with review of the stacks, a better play on the river might have been to lead out with $12-$13. This should absolutely let you know more information without committing $30+ to the pot. If he's bluffing he absolutely can't call you, and this puts him in a tough spot to try to "bluff" all in because you're already committing 1/3 of his remaining stack, and it looks like you're value betting a big hand. The small possibility that he has 2nd or 3rd pair will more than likely lead to a call here that you'd win. At this point if he still shoves it's either a very ballsiest bluff, or the more than likely case is you're beat, and you can save ~half a buy in ($25) and perhaps make a disciplined fold. Again, tough to say without knowing the player / seeing things, but just off what you've listed this is what comes to mind.
Just off what you've listed I would put him on something like 2 pair (with the 5 helping on the turn). I would definitely make the turn call as he probably wouldn't put you on runner runner hearts if they were to fall and would probably be willing to over bet his 2 pair on the river. The river bet described above would let you know where you stood (for the most part) on the river.
Obviously opinions vary from player to player, and from amateur to pro. Daniel Negreanu expressed over and over that the raise you made pre-flop here is not a good raise, especially knowing your opponent is an aggressive regular. He's more likely to have a much wider range of anything to 'defend' his BB with so your raise doesn't help you put him on any kind of hand, and then after the flop, you're out of position and more/less forced to C-Bet in to an aggressive player whom if you hit nothing and he raises you that puts you in a really bad spot with a building pot. Most pro's like to exercise a bit more pot control; building a pot when they know they're ahead.
So you've made your raise and the flop comes and you bet, he calls, and we go to your question of what to do on the turn. When he raises you on the turn you're 'more than likely' in one of three scenario's:
1) Trying to slow play a big pair or big flopped hand (you're beat)
2) The 5 helped his hand (7-5, 5-5, etc) (you're beat)
3) He's bluffing (you're ahead)
An aggressive player as you described would more than likely raise with J-x or even T-x on the flop to find out where he was / take the pot. The call, then raise on the turn reeks of a hand that beats your top pair, or a bluff. Again, most pro's here would exercise pot control and just call the turn. Normally shoving here semi-strong with a draw isn't a bad idea, but the way the hand played out it's a -EV play either way in my opinion. If he has a massive hand you're getting your money in behind and probably about 35% to catch (if 2-pair or trips even makes you good). If he's bluffing then you're missing an opportunity for you to improve your hand and/or let him bluff at it again, maximizing your value for the hand.
Him shoving on the river actually makes it a bit of a tougher call. It looks a bit more like a bluff now because if he had a massive hand he might try to get maximum value out of it with a half pot-ish bet. Without being in the situation, knowing the player, it's definitely tough to say... but only from what you described thus far I would say calling the turn is the proper play.
In hind-site with review of the stacks, a better play on the river might have been to lead out with $12-$13. This should absolutely let you know more information without committing $30+ to the pot. If he's bluffing he absolutely can't call you, and this puts him in a tough spot to try to "bluff" all in because you're already committing 1/3 of his remaining stack, and it looks like you're value betting a big hand. The small possibility that he has 2nd or 3rd pair will more than likely lead to a call here that you'd win. At this point if he still shoves it's either a very ballsiest bluff, or the more than likely case is you're beat, and you can save ~half a buy in ($25) and perhaps make a disciplined fold. Again, tough to say without knowing the player / seeing things, but just off what you've listed this is what comes to mind.
Just off what you've listed I would put him on something like 2 pair (with the 5 helping on the turn). I would definitely make the turn call as he probably wouldn't put you on runner runner hearts if they were to fall and would probably be willing to over bet his 2 pair on the river. The river bet described above would let you know where you stood (for the most part) on the river.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
