Big One for One Drop
The first year this was held back in 2012 I think, there were CEO's, Presidents and many industry type of people who supported this tournament, now mostly poker pro's.
What is the reason? Did the poker pro's get together and say "this is easy money because the game is so soft, let's play" or did the execs get tired of playing in this tournament?
Also, how much of their own action does each player hold in your estimation? Do they buy each other's action in order to mitigate their exposure?
Perhaps Venessa Selbst can crack a big one?
Last year was almost farcical with Esfandiari wining but perhaps keeping 10% of his winnings?
why does it stink morw then any other tournaments? Since poker has died down a bit I would guess less backers are available I would have to guess no pro has ever backed himself for more then 30% in this. Big name poker pros never have to put up a dollar in any game. Yet they receive a nice cut of the win none of the loss. Per event or even session. Imagine any casino game 50% of your win none of your losses per event or session.Quote: TomspurYeah this whole tournament stinks to high heaven imo.
Last year was almost farcical with Esfandiari wining but perhaps keeping 10% of his winnings?
You have to give it to Laliberte though. He really does love the game and tries to do well with his Cirque fortunes.....
2010: 7,319
2011: 6,865
2012: 6,598
2013: 6,352
2014: (?)
But, I suspect they may report increased total WSOP revenue again, because Caesars keeps increasing the number of events.
Quote: mickeycrimmI usually go to pokerlistings.com to catch up on the WSOP events. In this morning's article there were 33 players left out of 42 in the Big One For The Drop. The 42 players was well below the max allowed of 56. Ivey is in 3rd chip position, Esfandiari in 5th. Negreanu is 10th. One interesting tidbit in this morning's article was about why Phil Hellmuth didn't play. He couldn't sell enough shares to play. He showed up to play but fell about $130,000 short to enter the event.
I was surprised that Bobby Baldwin didn't play again this year. I don't think it was the $1 million that dissuaded him from playing.
Quote: DrawingDeadWSOP Main Event entrants
2010: 7,319
2011: 6,865
2012: 6,598
2013: 6,352
2014: (?)
But, I suspect they may report increased total WSOP revenue again, because Caesars keeps increasing the number of events.
The guaranteed $10m first place might attract more players this year.
Quote: DRichI was surprised that Bobby Baldwin didn't play again this year. I don't think it was the $1 million that dissuaded him from playing.
Somewhere I saw his name associated with this year but it must have changed pre tournament. I think MGM and him decided one year was enough goodwill....
I'm almost certain MGM staked him or a great portion thereof simply for the goodwill and charity component?
Quote: TomspurSomewhere I saw his name associated with this year but it must have changed pre tournament. I think MGM and him decided one year was enough goodwill....
I'm almost certain MGM staked him or a great portion thereof simply for the goodwill and charity component?
You could be right, but he can clearly afford it if he chooses to put up his own money. According to this link his compensation is over $10 million a year at MGM.
Link
Quote: Ibeatyouraces17 left, Esfandiari with a small lead.
Would be sick if he did this back-to-back, even if he had something tiny of himself.
Quote: BozOK, why would anyone buy shares of this with the hold for the so called charity for water being pulled off the top? Or is the charity hold below the normal hold for a WSOP event?
Perhaps the answer is in the word "charity"? :)
Even if the rake is a little higher (which I don't know that it is) wouldn't it be worth it because you can deduct for the donation?
Quote: TomspurPerhaps the answer is in the word "charity"? :)
Even if the rake is a little higher (which I don't know that it is) wouldn't it be worth it because you can deduct for the donation?
Maybe, but that is only for the person buying in, correct? The backers don't get a deduction. So is the edge in the limited field or why? The backers don't care about charity, only ROI.
And I am not sure if the buy in gets you any deduction just because the hold goes to charity instead of CZR.
And again, somehow I don't think these guys really care about charity or Phil would have paid the missing money out of pocket.
Quote: BozOK, why would anyone buy shares of this with the hold for the so called charity for water being pulled off the top? Or is the charity hold below the normal hold for a WSOP event?
11% goes to charity out of $42,000,000. That leaves a $37,000,000 prize pool with $15,000,000 going to first place. I figure Voulgaris wasn't blindly buying into players. I think he was buying into players with the best chance of cashing. If one has the bankroll it's a pretty good business decision. 14 businessmen entered the tournament. I think that creates the overlay right there. A player like Ivey or Esfandiari or Negreanu probably have at least 5 times a better chance of cashing than any one of those businessmen. I'm sure Voulgaris was basing his decisions on chances of cashing.
Quote: mickeycrimm11% goes to charity out of $42,000,000. That leaves a $37,000,000 prize pool with $15,000,000 going to first place. I figure Voulgaris wasn't blindly buying into players. I think he was buying into players with the best chance of cashing. If one has the bankroll it's a pretty good business decision. 14 businessmen entered the tournament. I think that creates the overlay right there. A player like Ivey or Esfandiari or Negreanu probably have at least 5 times a better chance of cashing than any one of those businessmen. I'm sure Voulgaris was basing his decisions on chances of cashing.
Are these contracts usually written or is it a gentlemens agreement?
Edit: found it. Here is the link. Down on June 27th he said he needed 300k more and was selling 9% for 100k each
https://mobile.twitter.com/phil_hellmuth/tweets
Quote: BeardgoatI'm pretty sure Phil Hellmuth was selling shares of his buy in on twitter. I'll try to find it
I wouldn't back that numpty. He isn't good enough imo. There are many younger guys who are much better than him now.
I think his ship has sailed......
Quote: TomspurI wouldn't back that numpty. He isn't good enough imo. There are many younger guys who are much better than him now.
I think his ship has sailed......
He came in 6th in the last one and cashed for 2.6 million, I think.
Quote: TomspurAre these contracts usually written or is it a gentlemens agreement?
I'm not really sure. I've never been involved.
Antonio Esfandiari and Tom Hall are about tied for the most chips at about 16M with 3rd through 15th place trailing 5M behind at best.
Gabe Kaplan of Welcome Back Kotter is in 7th place with about 7M chips.
Quote: mickeycrimmHe came in 6th in the last one and cashed for 2.6 million, I think.
In my opinion he is still a sub bar poker player as he is far too emotional at the table. In the past that ploy may have worked for him but the players have cottoned onto his play and they have worked him out.
Not nearly as effective in big number tournaments these days......
Quote: TomspurIn my opinion he is still a sub bar poker player as he is far too emotional at the table. In the past that ploy may have worked for him but the players have cottoned onto his play and they have worked him out.
Not nearly as effective in big number tournaments these days......
My feeling is that at this point in his career, most of that is just an act. He is still playing the part of the bad boy of poker. For some reason that sells, it seems like most people need a villian in every part of their lives.
Quote: DRichMy feeling is that at this point in his career, most of that is just an act. He is still playing the part of the bad boy of poker. For some reason that sells, it seems like most people need a villian in every part of their lives.
Yeah maybe it is now more about his image and what merch he can sell than what it is about actually achieving on the felt.
I think he is a nice enough guy away from the game but his poker image just makes me dislike him too much to ever swing the pendulum :)
Quote: IbeatyouracesOut in 12th.
Do you think it is possible for that dirty Ricky to win it all? I can't stand the creep though he has the chip lead now....
Wonder if Pammy is around?
Quote: DRichMy feeling is that at this point in his career, most of that is just an act. He is still playing the part of the bad boy of poker. For some reason that sells, it seems like most people need a villian in every part of their lives.
Yes, he was actually a very boring nice guy when he tried to clean up his image. His advisers told him to go back to being a poker brat. He almost snagged another bracelet this year coming in 2nd to Ted Forrest in the $1500 Razz. Of course, Hellmuth and Ivey definitely have a strategy for obtaining bracelets. They lay off the big fields and concentrate on the tournaments with 400 or less players.
http://www.pokerlistings.com/is-this-the-unluckiest-hand-in-poker-history-80559
Quote: TomspurDo you think it is possible for that dirty Ricky to win it all? I can't stand the creep though he has the chip lead now....
Wonder if Pammy is around?
Poker needs a sleaze factor. I wonder if he is selling copies of his sex tape with Paris Hilton at the tournament.
I hope Negraneau takes it. He is still probably the best face for tournament poker.
Quote: Ahigh
Interesting that he says that he doesn't think this tournament can continue. He seems to think there is just not enough equity left for the pros after the 11% takeout and considering how few amateurs are playing it. I was surprised that he said most players have less than 20% share of themselves. This guy is probably one of the smartest gamblers of this day and age.
I wish that players were obligated to disclose before a tournament who their investors were. I believe there are just too many occasions where collusion comes into play without knowing that. I realize it would be almost impossible to enforce, but it still needs to be a mandated rule.
Quote: DRichQuote: Ahigh
Interesting that he says that he doesn't think this tournament can continue. He seems to think there is just not enough equity left for the pros after the 11% takeout and considering how few amateurs are playing it. I was surprised that he said most players have less than 20% share of themselves. This guy is probably one of the smartest gamblers of this day and age.
I wish that players were obligated to disclose before a tournament who their investors were. I believe there are just too many occasions where collusion comes into play without knowing that. I realize it would be almost impossible to enforce, but it still needs to be a mandated rule.
Voulgaris is a successful sports handicapper. NBA totals are his specialty. I figure he chose not to play this year because he figures his poker skills are not as good as others and instead chose to use his handicapping skills to invest in other players. He mentioned a dispute Guy Laliberte had with some of the Asian businessmen that caused some of them not to turn out for this years event.
1 Rick Salomon 23,575,000
2 Tobias Reinkemeier 22,825,000
3 Daniel Colman 22,625,000
4 Daniel Negreanu 20,700,000
5 Cary Katz 9,125,000
6 Scott Seiver 8,250,000
7 Tom Hall 7,775,000
8 Christoph Vogelsang 7,075,000
9 Paul Newey 4,050,0000
Play continues at 3PM today. Las Vegas Yime
Only 8 get paid. 8th place is $1,300,000.
Quote: BuzzardRank Player Chip Count
1 Rick Salomon 23,575,000
2 Tobias Reinkemeier 22,825,000
3 Daniel Colman 22,625,000
4 Daniel Negreanu 20,700,000
5 Cary Katz 9,125,000
6 Scott Seiver 8,250,000
7 Tom Hall 7,775,000
8 Christoph Vogelsang 7,075,000
9 Paul Newey 4,050,0000
Play continues at 3PM today. Las Vegas Yime
Only 8 get paid. 8th place is $1,300,000.
FWIW, The guys at the WSOP live feed (David Tuchman) are saying this tournament will be on ESPN, all 3 days, in July, so they're not showing any of it right now.
Quote: IbeatyouracesYou can download the full schedule of what's being live streamed from their website. I was up all night watching the monster stack tournament last night/this morning. What's cool is you see EVERY hand played. Not what's edited for TV.
Yeah, me too. Great learning experience, to see guys' ranges and moves. I'm trying to understand "position". There's an astounding amount of check-raising that goes on.
Quote: beachbumbabsYeah, me too. Great learning experience, to see guys' ranges and moves. I'm trying to understand "position". There's an astounding amount of check-raising that goes on.
Position is one of those things that is very hard to really understand until you start playing. When I was young I read all of the books and couldn't understand why they kept stressing position so much. As soon as I started playing a lot it became very intuitive how important position is.
