Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
  • Threads: 90
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June 25th, 2014 at 4:10:17 PM permalink
I would have laid it down too, if I really feell the lady is a ROCK.. of course if an Ace comes, I go broke. Lol
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Croupier
Croupier
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
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June 25th, 2014 at 4:38:26 PM permalink
Our House ruling:

as long as you have attempted to immediately make clear you had not checked, action is reversed to you, you are allowed to bet, play continues, Exposed turn is reshuffled immediately.
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ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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June 25th, 2014 at 7:35:35 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

The river card becomes the turn card, that way only one card is jeopardized. The exposed jack is shuffled back in, and may very well show up on the river.



But this way means the player who still has action to complete on the flop knows that jack cant come on the turn, information they should not have.

Our house rule is that card gets put back into the deck and re-shuffled, action completed on the flop, then the turn dealt again.
ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
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June 25th, 2014 at 7:38:14 PM permalink
Quote: AxiomOfChoice

In other words, the people who made the rules were more concerned that the same cards come out than providing a fair game.

The real concern here should be that people are making decisions with additional information that they should not have, not that one random event is being replaced with another one.



Exactly this... no one having information they shouldn't, and its still random, are the important factors.
Deucekies
Deucekies
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
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June 25th, 2014 at 9:34:35 PM permalink
Quote: ShineyShine

But this way means the player who still has action to complete on the flop knows that jack cant come on the turn, information they should not have.


No method of correction is perfect, but the one that changes as little about the hand is possible is the best one, and that's why the method I mentioned is outlined in Robert's Rules of Poker (sec. 5-4), one of the foremost authorities in poker rules, and used almost universally. You may have a house rule to the contrary, but your house is certainly in the minority.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
Boney526
Boney526
Joined: Sep 25, 2011
  • Threads: 8
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June 25th, 2014 at 9:56:59 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

The river card becomes the turn card, that way only one card is jeopardized. The exposed jack is shuffled back in, and may very well show up on the river.



I know that that is considered the correct ruling, but I've always found the logic to be ridiculous. All you're doing, mathemetically, is ensuring the turn card can't show up on the turn. So whatever card is exposed has lower odds of showing that if no mistake had been made. It doesn't matter that the river is being used, as it would have been, since nobody knows what it is.]

I've always felt that the deck should just be re-shuffled including the turn.
Boney526
Boney526
Joined: Sep 25, 2011
  • Threads: 8
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June 25th, 2014 at 9:56:59 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

The river card becomes the turn card, that way only one card is jeopardized. The exposed jack is shuffled back in, and may very well show up on the river.



I know that that is considered the correct ruling, but I've always found the logic to be ridiculous. All you're doing, mathemetically, is ensuring the turn card can't show up on the turn. So whatever card is exposed has lower odds of showing that if no mistake had been made. It doesn't matter that the river is being used, as it would have been, since nobody knows what it is.]

I've always felt that the deck should just be re-shuffled including the turn.
ShineyShine
ShineyShine
Joined: Feb 6, 2014
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 187
June 25th, 2014 at 10:03:21 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

No method of correction is perfect, but the one that changes as little about the hand is possible is the best one, and that's why the method I mentioned is outlined in Robert's Rules of Poker (sec. 5-4), one of the foremost authorities in poker rules, and used almost universally. You may have a house rule to the contrary, but your house is certainly in the minority.



I admit i don't know what the commonly used rule is in the U.S, but i'm pretty sure our house rule isn't in the minority in Europe.

I don't agree that the rule that changes as little about the hand as possible is the best one. The rule that keeps the integrity of the game is the best one. We used to use the rule in this situation of burning a card and then dealing the river card face down, then re-shuffling the turn card, to 'preserve' the natural river card. I never understood this thinking. Nobody knew what the river card was anyway, so why was it so important to 'preserve' that? It's still just a random card. And then obviously the players knew that the exposed card couldnt be the river, information that could be useful to players, the most obvious example being draws.

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