Betting when small blind
Quote: Lemieux66Bombing pre is with the sole intention of making everyone fold or at least highly reducing number of preflop callers.
Sorry, I don't follow. I thought we were talking about calling the small blind?
Quote: paisielloSorry, I don't follow. I thought we were talking about calling the small blind?
Calling is the best move. Bombing second best. Folding worst. Just giving alternate strats
Quote: paisielloYes, it is hard to believe.
From my own relatively limited experience, I have busted many players playing their two low pair with a bigger two pair or a set. They just can't throw their hand away.
Another scenario:
Same flop but instead of shoving all-in, they call.
J on the turn. Maybe you fire another barrel? Ok, they call again.
Q on the river. Maybe this time you check? They shove. Do you still call with your bottom two pair? If your answer is yes then all you have done is given your opponent the same implied odds that was your excuse to play this weak hand to begin with.
I dont think the question is which hand you can improve most with minimal investment. Rather I think it's what hand is going to be more profitable in the long run and help you build a strong table image.
So is your point I should avoid betting my two pair because someone might outdraw me on the river? This doesn't seem logical. Seems like you're a tight player scared to lose money.
Edit... Read you post wrong
Quote: BeardgoatSo is your point I should avoid betting my two pair because someone might outdraw me on the river? This doesn't seem logical. Seems like you're a tight player scared to lose money.
Edit... Read you post wrong
No, my point is that you shouldn't call the small blind with a weak hand hoping to "hit the lottery" because of implied odds. You're still vulnerable in early position and you are subject to the same law of implied odds post-flop as all your opponents were pre-flop.
I am a tight player, though, and maybe scared to lose money but if I am confident I have a good bet then I'll make it.
Quote: paisielloNo, my point is that you shouldn't call the small blind with a weak hand hoping to "hit the lottery" because of implied odds. You're still vulnerable in early position and you are subject to the same law of implied odds post-flop as all your opponents were pre-flop.
I am a tight player, though, and maybe scared to lose money but if I am confident I have a good bet then I'll make it.
This is the problem right here: you call 45s a weak hand. It's not. It's a hand with a ton of potential and can be easily folded if you miss or don't hit hard enough.
Quote: paisielloI'll call any hand with a -ve EV a weak hand. From your point of view all hands are the same since implied odds can justify playing any hand?
Absolutely not. Just this hands plays well. Flush, straight, and it's the best kind of hand for bad beat jackpots. It's far far better in a multiway pot than say A10 off
Quote: paisielloI would think they would play about the same in early position. So you would fold A10 off then as small blind? How about AJ?
Early position post and pre are completely different things. Small blind is a great spot preflop. In early position post flop, both those hands should be folded. AJ is iffy and table dependent.
Quote: Lemieux66Early position post and pre are completely different things. Small blind is a great spot preflop. In early position post flop, both those hands should be folded. AJ is iffy and table dependent.
I guess the thing I can't get my head around is that you are trying to justify playing a hand pre-flop because of implied odds in a multi-way pot. And yet post-flop you admitted you are in an comfortable spot even if you hit two pair or trips. Why couldn't someone exploit this and use the same logic of implied odds to beat you at the same game post-flop?
I just don't see the hand being that strong. Maybe your years of experience have taught you otherwise and I will defer to that.
Quote: PeterMorristo bet or not to bet - does it make a difference if I'm small blind?
A six player game. Small blind is 1 coin, big blind is 2 coins.
Playing means that I bet 2 coins for a chance of winning 12 coins.
I draw suited 5-4
I have an EV of -0.0125. That means I should fold. Correct so far?
But what if I'm small blind? I've already put in 1 coin. It's a sunk cost. I won't get it back if I fold.
If I bet, I only have to bet 1 coin for a chance of winning 12.
Does that make a difference? Has the EV become positive? Has it become a worthwhile bet? Or should I still fold?
Seems like a mandoatory call to me, in a no-limits game, hey hey.
Quote: PeterMorristo bet or not to bet - does it make a difference if I'm small blind?
A six player game. Small blind is 1 coin, big blind is 2 coins.
Playing means that I bet 2 coins for a chance of winning 12 coins.
I draw suited 5-4
I have an EV of -0.0125. That means I should fold. Correct so far?
But what if I'm small blind? I've already put in 1 coin. It's a sunk cost. I won't get it back if I fold.
If I bet, I only have to bet 1 coin for a chance of winning 12.
Does that make a difference? Has the EV become positive? Has it become a worthwhile bet? Or should I still fold?
Seems like a mandoatory call to me, in a no-limits game, hey hey.
Quote: paisielloI guess the thing I can't get my head around is that you are trying to justify playing a hand pre-flop because of implied odds in a multi-way pot. And yet post-flop you admitted you are in an comfortable spot even if you hit two pair or trips. Why couldn't someone exploit this and use the same logic of implied odds to beat you at the same game post-flop?
I just don't see the hand being that strong. Maybe your years of experience have taught you otherwise and I will defer to that.
Uncomfortable spot with two pair or trips. But a lead out will tell you all need to know.
Quote: Lemieux66Uncomfortable spot with two pair or trips. But a lead out will tell you all need to know.
And what exactly is that? Your whole purpose was trying to catch someone betting their top pair. If they call you and the Turn comes where are you now?
