UTHfan
UTHfan
Joined: Mar 10, 2013
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January 16th, 2014 at 9:44:34 PM permalink
Let's pick apart the exact moment I went wrong.
i sit down with $300
2-5, real world table. my third hand, on the button, there's a 10 dollar straddle, by the time it comes around to me, there are about 5 people in.
I have KK.
I raise 35, 4 people call.
flop is 4Q10, action checks around to me.
I cbet $45. 3 people call.
Turn is K. action checks around to me.
I raise 100
everyone folds but one who raises $250, he's to my right.
I go all in. He has j9
River is a blank.
I figure the guy had a AK or two pair, if he had straight, I was committed, board could still pair.
What would've been best raise preflop with KK? Should've I gone all in.
When the third K came down and everyone checked around, should I have checked?
Was I committed with $80 + $100 in?
Dreamer
Dreamer
Joined: Dec 6, 2012
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:06:42 PM permalink
Maybe I'm reading this wrong ,but....don't you win with your set of K's against his missed open ended straight??
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:14:13 PM permalink
That's why Phil Helmeuth always says, "why so much?"
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker. Hold my beer.
Tomspur
Tomspur
Joined: Jul 12, 2013
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:24:59 PM permalink
Quote: UTHfan

Let's pick apart the exact moment I went wrong.
i sit down with $300
2-5, real world table. my third hand, on the button, there's a 10 dollar straddle, by the time it comes around to me, there are about 5 people in.
I have KK.
I raise 35, 4 people call.
flop is 4Q10, action checks around to me.
I cbet $45. 3 people call.
River is K. action checks around to me.
I raise 100
everyone folds but one who raises $250, he's to my right.
I go all in. He has j9
River is a blank.
I figure the guy had a AK or two pair, if he had straight, I was committed, board could still pair.
What would've been best raise preflop with KK? Should've I gone all in.
When the third K came down and everyone checked around, should I have checked?
Was I committed with $80 + $100 in?



I think you under bet your initial raise, especially with a straddle and 4 other callers.
IMO, I would raise 5 x the straddle ($50), especially on a 2-5 game with (obviously) loose players. The straddle can work two ways. It can make people make stupid calls because the straddle is more than likely blind or it can give the straddle the opportunity to buy the pot.
I would raise a little higher than you are confortable with so that you can find out where you are and simultaneously put some pressure on the initial callers. Remember you still have the 2nd best opening hand. Guys playing against a straddle would not have been able to flat call with Aces so you had to know you were best when it came to your turn to act!

If you have 5 callers in front of you, get as many of them out and play against the smaller pairs or perhaps suited connectors (which can be dangerous).

EDIT: Looks like the turn is missing fromt he story. It may have made the callers hand and beat the set. Not sure UTH, perhaps you can let us know? If it is a bad beat then obviously he filled his straight.
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Transcend
Transcend
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:27:26 PM permalink
Quote: Dreamer

Maybe I'm reading this wrong ,but....don't you win with your set of K's against his missed open ended straight??



Flop had Q 10, turn K other guy had J 9....9 10 J Q K


Seems op wrote the river twice... I think it is supposed to be turn K river useless card
Part of it went on gambling, and part of it went on women. The rest I spent foolishly. -George Raft
Tomspur
Tomspur
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:31:08 PM permalink
Quote: Transcend

Flop had Q 10, turn K other guy had J 9....9 10 J Q K


Seems op wrote the river twice... I think it is supposed to be turn K river useless card



Yeah that sounds about right.
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
Dreamer
Dreamer
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:43:24 PM permalink
As I initially suspected I did read it wrong. I would have to agree with an earlier poster, had your pre flop raise been higher you may have pushed out his J 9 right from the start. By your raise being so low you may have been giving him correct odds to call and allowing him to stay in the hand with his speculative holdings.
socks
socks
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:44:06 PM permalink
Quote: UTHfan

Let's pick apart the exact moment I went wrong.



You failed to dodge his straight draw.

I would've bet more preflop. I haven't played in a while, but I think this was a situation where I used to push a lot, say down to ATo/A8s, KQ, 77, assuming there were no frequent limp-re-raisers in the game. Something like that. But if you don't feel like doing that, I'd still raise more than 3.5 blinds after 5 limpers.

I also would've bet more on the flop. 1/4 pot is light.

Once it's straddled, it's a 10/5 game (or a little bigger with the sb).
Tomspur
Tomspur
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January 16th, 2014 at 10:54:13 PM permalink
Quote: socks

You failed to dodge his straight draw.

I would've bet more preflop. I haven't played in a while, but I think this was a situation where I used to push a lot, say down to ATo/A8s, KQ, 77, assuming there were no frequent limp-re-raisers in the game. Something like that. But if you don't feel like doing that, I'd still raise more than 3.5 blinds after 5 limpers.

I also would've bet more on the flop. 1/4 pot is light.

Once it's straddled, it's a 10/5 game (or a little bigger with the sb).



I agree with socks, the game changed dramatically as soon as the straddle is introduced. There is no value in a raise that small with 5 callers in front of you. The worst that could happen is exactly what did happen, the junk remained in because they felt that with the straddle, they had pot odds for calling your very medium raise. Remember you have to see it from their perspective too. Here you have a medium raise on the button with 5 callers. They see you as possibly weak and trying to buy the straddle. Next time, be a little more aggressive. The worst thing that can happen then is you get called with Aces, which is not very likely in that spo AT ALL.
“There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.” - Winston Churchill
tringlomane
tringlomane
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January 16th, 2014 at 11:20:03 PM permalink
Yep, with the straddle this is basically a 5/10 game now, so raise to 60 or 70 so pre. And bet closer to 2/3rds of the pot on the flop.

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