hook3670
hook3670
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:31:24 PM permalink
The second controversy we had at the Pai Gow Poker table was how to set a hand the dealer had. He got A, Joker, 6, 7, 8, 10, 10. The dealer wanted to play it straight on the bottom and A,10 up top. The pit boss corrected him and told him to play aces down and 10's up top. I had a push either way. The dealer disagreed. They pulled out the house rules and laid them on the table and they were so confusing nobody could figure them out. It mentioned something about a straight with two pair go to the two pair rule and then if you had an ace and could improve your top play the ace but if you had two high pairs then play them. I am not joking when I say no less then five supervisors came by to discuss setting this hand and we debated it pretty good for about half an hour. Eventually the top boss decided on the aces and tens. If I had that hand I would have had the straight with A, 10 up top. First of all which is the best way to play that hand? Second which is the more common house way to play that hand?
Face
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Face
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:36:04 PM permalink
Pretty sure the best way is A/10 with straight, and I think the House Way is the same. Admittedly my Pai Gow training is 6 months old and I haven't looked at it since (we don't offer it at my location), so I'll give way to Dan, who should chime in right...about...
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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:36:41 PM permalink
The number of morons in this business is amazing.
While both settings are strong, generally the two-pair rules is a standard: if you have two pairs, dealer must play it as two pairs, and ignore all other poker elements (straight, flush.)
For floormen to not know this is amazing and scary.
Generally, it is better to play two pairs with a straight or a flush as two pairs, except:
1. If a straight or flush can be played as a traight/flush with an AK for the top, (AAKKQJ10 play as AK/AKQJ10, as Aces are still only a single-pair bottom, yet a straight with an AK or pair top is a monster hand) or
2. Both two pairs are 6's and less, and would otherwise be played together. (e.g., 6544322 play as 42/65432, and not 65/44322.)
Most house ways simply specify "Dealer has two pair - play the hand as a two pair hand."
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Face
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Face
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:39:06 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

The number of morons in this business is amazing.
While both settings are strong, generally the two-pair rules is a standard: if you have two pairs, dealer must play it as two pairs, and ignore all other poker elements (straight, flush.)
For floormen to not know this is amazing and scary.
Generally, it is better to play two pairs with a straight or a flush as two pairs, except:
1. If a straight or flush can be played as a traight/flush with an AK for the top, (AAKKQJ10 play as AK/AKQJ10, as Aces are still only a single-pair bottom, yet a straight with an AK or pair top is a monster hand) or
2. Both two pairs are 6's and less, and would otherwise be played together. (e.g., 6544322 play as 42/65432, and not 65/44322.)
Most house ways simply specify "Dealer has two pair - play the hand as a two pair hand."



I thought the two pair rule didn't apply if one pair was a "mid" (7-10) and you could play Ace or King in the low hand? I'll assume you know what you're talking about, though. Obviously ;)
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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:40:47 PM permalink
Quote: Face

I thought the two pair rule didn't apply if one pair was a "mid" (7-10) and you could play Ace or King in the low hand? I'll assume you know what you're talking about, though. Obviously ;)



Thanks! :)
In houses that have the two-pair rule, the two-pair rules generally takes precedence over all other hand settings.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
hook3670
hook3670
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:42:49 PM permalink
Thanks guys. If you were playing the hand how would you play it?
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:47:44 PM permalink
It's close, both are great hands - but split Aces and 10's, as you don't have an AK/AQ for the top. (think: with three aces out, the dealer/opponent might easily field an AQ/AJ on top to thwart you.)
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
soulhunt79
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:47:47 PM permalink
I believe most house rules have them split up a pair of aces + any other pair no matter what else they have.

Going off dealer odds

A-7 = 54% chance to win
10-10 = 95%

5 cards

A-A-other crap = 75%
Straight = ~93%

Pick the best combo and looks like splitting is best.


FWIW - It looks like if you had A-K instead of A-7, you might be better off keeping the straight. I say might because these are dealer odds of winning so not sure how much ties would take out of this.

I probably would have split them up before I looked those up. 10-10 is a great hand and a pair of A's is not bad either.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:52:17 PM permalink
A-7 = 49% chance to win. (but - AK goes up to 65%!)
AA pair = ~68% chance to win. A lot of two pairs, trips, etc., to poke us in the eye.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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August 15th, 2011 at 5:53:29 PM permalink
Forgot to add in my last dealer error on my last trip.

It started off with a discussion of when do they split 2 pair. A hand had come up with something like 8s and 6s and 3 very bad cards. A person at the table thought they pushed. The dealer split them and the guy asked why. The discussion went on, everyone was fine and really just looking to understand the house way.

Fast forward about an hour with a new dealer....

I can't remember if it was exactly the same situation or if something like 6s and 4s with 3 crap cards. Either way, the dealer played it the opposite way we had just discussed an hour before. I was just surprised at the time that within the same casino, the dealers didn't know the same rules.

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