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June 23rd, 2022 at 4:45:54 PM permalink
Can someone explain to me if there is such a thing?
ThatDonGuy
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June 23rd, 2022 at 4:52:47 PM permalink
Can you give us an example of what you mean by "based on a probability calculation"?
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June 23rd, 2022 at 4:56:08 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Can you give us an example of what you mean by "based on a probability calculation"?
link to original post



tbh i dont know either ive been reading alot of IGT patents and they claim that normal slot machines aka "fully random" slot machines winning is based on a "probability calculation" and i just cant figure this out because everyone seems to be confused by that statement
DRich
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June 23rd, 2022 at 5:00:09 PM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Can you give us an example of what you mean by "based on a probability calculation"?
link to original post



tbh i dont know either ive been reading alot of IGT patents and they claim that normal slot machines aka "fully random" slot machines winning is based on a "probability calculation" and i just cant figure this out because everyone seems to be confused by that statement
link to original post



The sum of the probability of each outcome multiplied by its payback will return the percentage payback for the slot machine.
Order from chaos
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June 24th, 2022 at 6:51:14 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: heatmap

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Can you give us an example of what you mean by "based on a probability calculation"?
link to original post



tbh i dont know either ive been reading alot of IGT patents and they claim that normal slot machines aka "fully random" slot machines winning is based on a "probability calculation" and i just cant figure this out because everyone seems to be confused by that statement
link to original post



The sum of the probability of each outcome multiplied by its payback will return the percentage payback for the slot machine.
link to original post



I am going to have to quote the patent but one of the preferred embodiments they describe as Using a “probability calculation” and it is described as simply having a winning and losing “band” which after that I would assume a particular outcome is shown which is dependent on either winning or losing
rsactuary
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June 24th, 2022 at 6:55:54 AM permalink
I would interpret that is a simple expected value calculation based on each potential outcome and the probability of that outcome.
Dieter
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June 24th, 2022 at 7:40:24 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

Quote: DRich

Quote: heatmap

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Can you give us an example of what you mean by "based on a probability calculation"?
link to original post



tbh i dont know either ive been reading alot of IGT patents and they claim that normal slot machines aka "fully random" slot machines winning is based on a "probability calculation" and i just cant figure this out because everyone seems to be confused by that statement
link to original post



The sum of the probability of each outcome multiplied by its payback will return the percentage payback for the slot machine.
link to original post



I am going to have to quote the patent but one of the preferred embodiments they describe as Using a “probability calculation” and it is described as simply having a winning and losing “band” which after that I would assume a particular outcome is shown which is dependent on either winning or losing
link to original post



Is this perhaps used for the "wager saver" feature, which may be offered instead of cashing out small credit values?
May the cards fall in your favor.
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June 24th, 2022 at 8:16:02 AM permalink
My issue is that they use the description that (I’m most likely butchering as of this moment without looking at the patent) is used within many patents that are describing class 2 gaming. I know the description I’m saying is not for class two because it is describing prior art of fully random machines and what I’m telling you is the example of why class two machines are “needed”
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June 24th, 2022 at 8:30:37 AM permalink
this is just the background of the invention i will dive deeper when i am not at work

this is just one example but the "background description" has been copied and pasted within many IGT patents

"Central determination gaming system with a game outcome generated by a gaming terminal and approved by a central controller"
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8337295B2/en

Quote:

BACKGROUND
The present invention relates in general to a central determination gaming system, and more particularly to a central determination gaming system with a game outcome generated by a gaming terminal and approved by a central controller. The majority of the contemporary wagering gaming devices or gaming terminals, such as slot machines, randomly generate awards and other outcomes. Such gaming devices typically include a relatively low probability associated with obtaining the highest award, relatively medium probabilities associated with obtaining medium range awards and relatively higher probabilities associated with obtaining low range awards. These gaming devices also include probabilities associated with obtaining losses or no award at all. The probabilities of obtaining the awards and the amount of the awards determine the average expected pay out percentage of these wagering gaming devices. Because the outcomes of these gaming devices are completely randomly determined, there is no certainty that a player will ever obtain any particular award. That is, no matter how many times a player plays the game, since the gaming device generates outcomes randomly or completely based upon a probability calculation, there is no certainty that the game will ever provide the player with a rare outcome, such as a jackpot award, or any other specific value for that matter. On the other hand, due to the random determination, the gaming device can provide the rare outcomes, such as jackpot awards, numerous times in a small number of plays. For example, a probability-based $1 slot machine gaming device may be programmed to payback 95% of all wagers placed with a 1% chance of generating a $10 win outcome, a 5% chance of generating a $5 win outcome, a 10% chance of generating a $2 win outcome, a 40% chance of generating a $1 win outcome and a 44% chance of generating a $0 loss outcome. However, when one hundred game outcomes are generated by the probability-based slot machine gaming device, the actual payback may be 137% of all wagers placed and the actual generated outcomes may be six $10 win outcomes, one $5 win outcome, eighteen $2 win outcomes, thirty-six $1 win outcomes and thirty-nine $0 loss outcomes.



now lets break that down

Quote:

The present invention relates in general to a central determination gaming system, and more particularly to a central determination gaming system with a game outcome generated by a gaming terminal and approved by a central controller.



Seems pretty straight forward so far

Quote:

The majority of the contemporary wagering gaming devices or gaming terminals, such as slot machines, randomly generate awards and other outcomes.



Also normal language being used

Quote:

Such gaming devices typically include a relatively low probability associated with obtaining the highest award, relatively medium probabilities associated with obtaining medium range awards and relatively higher probabilities associated with obtaining low range awards.



Pretty sure that has something to do with what Drich has said

Quote:

These gaming devices also include probabilities associated with obtaining losses or no award at all.



Quote:

The probabilities of obtaining the awards and the amount of the awards determine the average expected pay out percentage of these wagering gaming devices.


Yup definitely what Drich has said

Quote:

Because the outcomes of these gaming devices are completely randomly determined, there is no certainty that a player will ever obtain any particular award.



MM hmm... okay i guess makes sense the next sentence doesnt though

Quote:

That is, no matter how many times a player plays the game, since the gaming device generates outcomes randomly or completely based upon a probability calculation, there is no certainty that the game will ever provide the player with a rare outcome, such as a jackpot award, or any other specific value for that matter.



Heres where we see that there is completely random OR based on a probability calculation... this is what im asking about

Quote:

On the other hand, due to the random determination, the gaming device can provide the rare outcomes, such as jackpot awards, numerous times in a small number of plays.




Quote:

For example, a probability-based $1 slot machine gaming device may be programmed to payback 95% of all wagers placed with a 1% chance of generating a $10 win outcome, a 5% chance of generating a $5 win outcome, a 10% chance of generating a $2 win outcome, a 40% chance of generating a $1 win outcome and a 44% chance of generating a $0 loss outcome.



Quote:

However, when one hundred game outcomes are generated by the probability-based slot machine gaming device, the actual payback may be 137% of all wagers placed and the actual generated outcomes may be six $10 win outcomes, one $5 win outcome, eighteen $2 win outcomes, thirty-six $1 win outcomes and thirty-nine $0 loss outcomes.

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June 24th, 2022 at 8:34:33 AM permalink
Background continued... this paragraph is useless IMO and im putting it here just because

Quote:

This uncertainty is faced by players and casinos or other gaming establishments. For example, certain casinos prefer that a relatively high number of players hit low awards while a relatively low number of players hit high awards. When players hit high awards periodically, casinos attract more players, because of the positive publicity large wins generate. By using desired payback percentages or probabilities, the casinos can also expect to make a certain level of profit. The random determinations can, however, unexpectedly cause casinos to suffer a loss or, on the other hand, to reap great profit in the short run and lose business in the long run due to a reputation for only paying out low awards.




Quote:

This uncertainty is faced by players and casinos or other gaming establishments.


Quote:

For example, certain casinos prefer that a relatively high number of players hit low awards while a relatively low number of players hit high awards.


Quote:

When players hit high awards periodically, casinos attract more players, because of the positive publicity large wins generate.


Quote:

By using desired payback percentages or probabilities, the casinos can also expect to make a certain level of profit.


Quote:

The random determinations can, however, unexpectedly cause casinos to suffer a loss or, on the other hand, to reap great profit in the short run and lose business in the long run due to a reputation for only paying out low awards.


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