Poll

1 vote (3.57%)
2 votes (7.14%)
3 votes (10.71%)
4 votes (14.28%)
2 votes (7.14%)
6 votes (21.42%)
5 votes (17.85%)
1 vote (3.57%)
15 votes (53.57%)
3 votes (10.71%)

28 members have voted

CrystalMath
CrystalMath
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Mission146
May 2nd, 2021 at 12:33:46 PM permalink
This game is intentionally deceptive, and I think it is wrong.

IGT could have designed a fair game, so why didnít they? Is it to obscure the fact that two machines with the same pay table have different RTP? Is the intention just to push the rules and open Pandoraís box?

The game was obviously approved by NGCB, but it still violates the intent of the law.
I heart Crystal Math.
MoneyK1ng
MoneyK1ng
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Mission146
May 2nd, 2021 at 3:46:29 PM permalink
Is 55 games enough to even begin to analyze a new game?
unJon
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Mission146
May 2nd, 2021 at 6:13:04 PM permalink
Quote: MoneyK1ng

Is 55 games enough to even begin to analyze a new game?

Itís somehow better when you say it vs billryan.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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Mission146
May 2nd, 2021 at 7:10:58 PM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Bombs cannot land on marked numbers, correct?



Correct.

Quote:

Fragments cannot land on marked numbers, correct?



Correct.

Quote:

This is why "explosions and fragments are evaluated after all numbers are drawn".



I don't understand what is meant by that statement either. In my opinion, it is their admission the game is gaffed, but what player will understand it?

Quote:

This post event evaluation is common wording on some slot machines which require it, cannot think of an example. I believe usually to do with pays, just so small pays aren't awarded in addition to a larger and improved pay by some game feature. I find the phrase fair and excusable, though an extra or hidden meaning could exist. I'm doubtful.



I'm not sure I see your point there.

Quote:

Does the game force you to bet in even amounts of credits or is the player not paid fully with half credits?



It makes you bet in even numbers of credits. I think 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10.


Quote:

Maybe. There would be 20 balls drawn to account for hitting the numbers and 3 for the bombs, unless the bombs cut into the 20 to make it 17 for numbers and 3 for bombs. You have to test play to see if the bombs are...I'm going to keep this train of thought here...I looked at the pictures and the bombs do correspond to drawn numbers. This is screwy and complex. So it isn't just getting 3 of 20, it is representing getting 3/14 for a 6 spot. I see the wording now being strange and not innocent as I assumed. Why are they even correlating the drawn numbers with the bombs for explosions, if that's not how the game is really working? I see the entire point now I have read this completely. Are the bombs matching the drawn numbers what causes them to explode or what places them on the board? Maybe I am thinking this because I haven't slept in over 24 hours, but can you play the game again and just test the first stage of the game for being legit with a 2 spot before the bombs come into play?



Yes, a bomb explodes if one of the 20 balls drawn by the game matches the number a bomb is on. Consider the example in my page.



Bombs were put on 1, 36, and 41. You can see those numbers were drawn, as evidenced by the balls on the right and that the squares they are on are red. Actually, the 20th ball drawn was 41 and you can see it only half turned in the screenshot, but you can see it all the way in the image age the end of the game.



I apologize if this reply didn't hit all your points. I wasn't sure what all of them were.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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Mission146
May 2nd, 2021 at 7:21:53 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

And it appears that the 20 balls being drawn do have an equal chance of being any of the C(80,20) ways to do it.



No! The numbers with bombs have a much greater chance of being drawn by the 20-ball draw of the game. I would agree that if you tracked balls numbers drawn, they would probably be equal, because they randomize where the bombs are put. If the player could choose the bomb locations, for example 1 to 3, then 1 to 3 would be hit more than 20/80 of the time each.

Quote:

Since drawing the numbers for the bombs has nothing to do with "live" Keno, I don't think the way those three numbers are selected has to be uniformly random to comply with the regulation. See my earlier comment about the "free ride card" in MultiStrike Poker for a similar case.



I disagree with your opinion. As to MultiStike, the "free ride card" isn't really a card. It's a random feature they display to the player as something that looks like a card.

Quote:

Here's a question: once a bomb releases fragments, do the numbers that the fragments have to land on have to be uniformly random?



I am fine with the rule that fragments can't hit numbers already drawn, have a bomb, or were already hit by an earlier fragment. Otherwise, I think all should be equally likely to be compliant with the spirit of fair and honest gambling in Nevada.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
heatmap
heatmap
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Mission146
May 2nd, 2021 at 8:24:36 PM permalink
serious question

if we allow slot machines to weight their symbols and how often they come up

why is this an issue - can they not choose to weight the symbols to whatever they please?

slot machines in real life dont have the amount of stops they have on in the digital world and the normal games would not meet the requirements set by law so we allow them to add digital stops in order to make these machines pay out exactly as we want
Mission146
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heatmap
May 3rd, 2021 at 3:25:25 AM permalink
Quote: heatmap

serious question

if we allow slot machines to weight their symbols and how often they come up

why is this an issue - can they not choose to weight the symbols to whatever they please?

slot machines in real life dont have the amount of stops they have on in the digital world and the normal games would not meet the requirements set by law so we allow them to add digital stops in order to make these machines pay out exactly as we want



The difference, or at least why people would expect this to correspond to natural probabilities, is because video keno is a representation of the live game of keno.

Itís the same thing as VP representing physical playing cards.

Whereas, slots arenít an electronic representation of anything physical with set probabilities.
Vultures can't be choosers.
heatmap
heatmap
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Mission146
May 3rd, 2021 at 5:23:06 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The difference, or at least why people would expect this to correspond to natural probabilities, is because video keno is a representation of the live game of keno.

Itís the same thing as VP representing physical playing cards.

Whereas, slots arenít an electronic representation of anything physical with set probabilities.



i dont know why i asked this i kind of knew the answer i guess i just wanted confirmation - i also forgot keno was an actual game that was played before video gaming terminals lol
sabre
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Mission146
May 3rd, 2021 at 8:38:51 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Whereas, slots arenít an electronic representation of anything physical with set probabilities.



I realize you know this, but just to clarify for others if a slot machine contains a feature using an electronic representation of anything physical with set probabilities it must adhere to those probabilities. There are several slots that use dice outcomes and those outcomes must adhere to the real probabilities.
DRich
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Mission146
May 3rd, 2021 at 10:56:13 AM permalink
Quote: sabre

I realize you know this, but just to clarify for others if a slot machine contains a feature using an electronic representation of anything physical with set probabilities it must adhere to those probabilities. There are several slots that use dice outcomes and those outcomes must adhere to the real probabilities.



This is not true in Nevada. I did a slot machine with dice as some of the reel symbols and they did not need to be evenly weighted because the game itself was not mimicking another game.
Living longer does not always infer +EV

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