Poll

1 vote (3.57%)
2 votes (7.14%)
3 votes (10.71%)
4 votes (14.28%)
2 votes (7.14%)
6 votes (21.42%)
5 votes (17.85%)
1 vote (3.57%)
15 votes (53.57%)
3 votes (10.71%)

28 members have voted

onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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Mission146
May 1st, 2021 at 5:18:45 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

If someone came on and said they played 55 hands of BJ and didn't get a single BJ, would you say the game was gaffed or tell them they needed a few thousand more hands to decide? How is this any different?

You don't know, that's so cute. Adde: To be fair, everyone doesn't need to know everything, you have knowledge about comics and collectibles, and probably other things to shame us all. Low probability doesn't need a lot of trials as something with a higher probability. Yet, somehow a coin can flip heads or tails 999/1000 or 99/100 or 9/10.
Mission146
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May 1st, 2021 at 5:24:25 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Is MultiStrike Poker considered "gaffed" since the Free Ride card shows up more than 1/53 of the time? I would consider Keno Explosion the same way.

There is a YouTube video of someone playing it at Wynn: 38 plays has 19 0s, 3 1s, 9 2s, and 7 3s.

Perhaps hidden somewhere in the help screens is the probability of getting particular numbers of bombs hit? (Don't MultiStrike Poker machines usually say what the probability of a Free Ride is in their help screens?)



The “Free Ride,” is not a card that would normally be in a deck of playing cards, totally different and separate concept. This Keno game might be, based on Wizard’s findings, and likely is choosing specific numbers for bombs and the bomb hits, all evidence suggests, do not correspond to the probabilities of those numbers hitting in twenty draws.

There are ways around having to actually use the numbers. For example, one Quick Hit variation has three fire symbols that appear away from the reels and lead to Free Games if all light up. This game could have done something similar to that.

While the inconsistency may work in the player’s favor for this game, it perhaps opens the door for inconsistencies in keno games that do not work in the player’s favor.
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Wizard
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Mission146
May 1st, 2021 at 5:52:32 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

If someone came on and said they played 55 hands of BJ and didn't get a single BJ, would you say the game was gaffed or tell them they needed a few thousand more hands to decide? How is this any different?



I would say it was gaffed, based on their version.
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gordonm888
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Mission146
May 1st, 2021 at 8:14:27 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

If someone came on and said they played 55 hands of BJ and didn't get a single BJ, would you say the game was gaffed or tell them they needed a few thousand more hands to decide? How is this any different?



There is a concept called statistical confidence and it can be calculated. It allows you to say that the evidence cited implies some level of confidence, say 20% or 82%, or 96% or 99.93%, that the underlying mechanism is not random.

Wizard cites something that should logically happen 1.39% of the time and yet it occurs 7 times in 55 trials. There is a high confidence ( I don't know the level) that the action occurs more frequently than 1.39%. It doesn't require many trials to gain confidence if the action you are observing should only occur rarely and yet it occurs very frequently in a few trials.
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CrystalMath
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Mission146
May 1st, 2021 at 8:44:40 PM permalink
I think you need more data. This is illegal, even if it’s in the player’s favor.

It would be helpful to see all of the help screens too.

Edit: I see the help screens. It does not say that a fragment cannot hit another unexplored bomb. Seems like there may be a chain reaction?
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Wizard
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Mission146
May 1st, 2021 at 8:57:07 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

This is illegal, even if it’s in the player’s favor.



Can you quote me a regulation? I thought the one about natural odds applied to dice and cards only. I'd be happy to bring a formal complaint about this if I had a legal leg to stand on.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
CrystalMath
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Mission146
May 1st, 2021 at 9:22:46 PM permalink
I believe NGCB 14.040.5

It used to be 14.040.2(b).

For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game.

I watched some videos, and the game is gaffed, in my opinion, and it really makes me mad.
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Mission146
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May 1st, 2021 at 10:13:54 PM permalink
Quote: CrystalMath

I believe NGCB 14.040.5

It used to be 14.040.2(b).

For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game.

I watched some videos, and the game is gaffed, in my opinion, and it really makes me mad.



It’s going to make you more mad when a Keno game is gaffed to look like it would pay in the high-90’s if the special feature actually corresponded to natural probabilities.

Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but sometime.
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Mission146
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May 1st, 2021 at 10:16:26 PM permalink
Imagine Cleopatra Keno, except the machine decides randomly whether the last number that would have otherwise been hit is displayed last.

Or Caveman Plus Keno, except the game decides to put the eggs in spots after the fact of the draw and the probability of an egg landing on one of the twenty numbers is less than a Keno game would otherwise dictate.
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onenickelmiracle
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May 1st, 2021 at 10:24:09 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Can you quote me a regulation? I thought the one about natural odds applied to dice and cards only. I'd be happy to bring a formal complaint about this if I had a legal leg to stand on.

Are you really ever happy bringing a formal complaint? I've always felt the casinos would retaliate and have never done it. The one time I did complain, they just showed their ignorance and I got tired of fighting them, not wanting to go through it all again with a supervisor.

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