2G'$ -- Roulette side bet
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14 members have voted
October 3rd, 2020 at 3:30:58 PM
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2G'$ is one of two new side bets starting a run at the Gold Coast on October 8. It is quite simple, if the two spins after the bet is made are both 0 or 0-0, in any combination, the bet pays 350 to 1.
One of my Ten Commandments of Gambling is "Thou shalt not make sucker bets." However, this is a rare case where a side bet is better than the base game. The house edge on the 2G'$ bet is 2.77%.
For more information please see my analysis of 2G'$ or watch Heather's video below.
The question for the forum is would you bet on the 2G'$ if you were playing double-zero roulette anyway?
One of my Ten Commandments of Gambling is "Thou shalt not make sucker bets." However, this is a rare case where a side bet is better than the base game. The house edge on the 2G'$ bet is 2.77%.
For more information please see my analysis of 2G'$ or watch Heather's video below.
The question for the forum is would you bet on the 2G'$ if you were playing double-zero roulette anyway?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 3rd, 2020 at 6:06:27 PM
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This is NOT a sucker bet. Any roulette player who has a hint about the math, should play this.
That said, why would the casino offer this? Perhaps THEY don’t understand the math.
And, yes. Even though my deal with Galaxy went south, I’m still holding out for Poker For Roulette.
http://www.davemillergaming.com/
That said, why would the casino offer this? Perhaps THEY don’t understand the math.
And, yes. Even though my deal with Galaxy went south, I’m still holding out for Poker For Roulette.
http://www.davemillergaming.com/
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 3rd, 2020 at 11:16:50 PM
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Every long shot “proposition” bet I’ve ever seen has had a very high edge, usually well over 20%. It really does seem like the casino misunderstands. I suppose part of the reason these bets normally carry a high edge is because the casino is taking some risk with the high variance
It’s all about making that GTA
October 4th, 2020 at 5:00:52 AM
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Quote: Ace2Every long shot “proposition” bet I’ve ever seen has had a very high edge, usually well over 20%. It really does seem like the casino misunderstands. I suppose part of the reason these bets normally carry a high edge is because the casino is taking some risk with the high variance
I think the casino would argue that the bet itself will draw more players and action to the table. Perhaps a comparison could be drawn to the odds bet in craps. Zero house edge, but it draws players in who bet (in fact are forced) to make other bets with a house edge.
However, you're right, the usual rule of thumb in the casino business is the higher the variance the higher the edge. You might say the casino is applying the Kelly Criterion.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 4th, 2020 at 8:31:28 AM
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it is simple, staightforward and will eat uo a bankroll faster, but i,d play it.
bad NME THOUGH
bad NME THOUGH
Last edited by: FleaStiff on Oct 4, 2020
October 5th, 2020 at 3:46:11 AM
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No. This is STILL higher house edge than normal roulette (which means one green zero). Far better to bet on any number - including green zero if you wish - for 35x win.
Perhaps that's why Heather looks as natural as if she would have a gun pointed at her. I almost wanted to call 911!
The only best bet on American Roulette is "00" winning even money instead of losing for a luxurious no house edge head or tail (19:19).
Since we're talking about roulette there is one bet clearly absent and it's 3:1 for any 9 number combination to be named Square or Quarter. It could be allowed by adding a line on the other side of the numbers with four places to bet - 1-9, 10-18, 19-27 and 28-36. Has anyone ever seen this bet somewhere? There's a lot of nonsense system bets with fancy French names, but no obvious 3:1 bet.
PS: I can answer my own question. Microgaming’s Premier Roulette Diamond Edition has "Chip Bomb" bet where each of 10 numbers inside the layout (from 5 to 32) can be selected with all 8 surrounding them. That covers my idea for numbers 5, 14, 23 and 32 with 6 additional Square/Quarter bet shifted left or right. That can also work on some online versions with 4 neighbouring numbers left and right on the wheel from any chosen number, preferably green zero. Still, my idea would be just simpler and workable in a casino.
Perhaps that's why Heather looks as natural as if she would have a gun pointed at her. I almost wanted to call 911!
The only best bet on American Roulette is "00" winning even money instead of losing for a luxurious no house edge head or tail (19:19).
Since we're talking about roulette there is one bet clearly absent and it's 3:1 for any 9 number combination to be named Square or Quarter. It could be allowed by adding a line on the other side of the numbers with four places to bet - 1-9, 10-18, 19-27 and 28-36. Has anyone ever seen this bet somewhere? There's a lot of nonsense system bets with fancy French names, but no obvious 3:1 bet.
PS: I can answer my own question. Microgaming’s Premier Roulette Diamond Edition has "Chip Bomb" bet where each of 10 numbers inside the layout (from 5 to 32) can be selected with all 8 surrounding them. That covers my idea for numbers 5, 14, 23 and 32 with 6 additional Square/Quarter bet shifted left or right. That can also work on some online versions with 4 neighbouring numbers left and right on the wheel from any chosen number, preferably green zero. Still, my idea would be just simpler and workable in a casino.
Last edited by: MattUK on Oct 5, 2020
October 5th, 2020 at 5:25:30 AM
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There’s your mistake.Quote: MattUKNo. This is STILL higher house edge than normal roulette (which means one green zero).
In the original post, as well as in the article the Wiz posted, he very clearly indicates that this bet is meant for, and is being offered on, a double zero game.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 5th, 2020 at 6:06:42 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThere’s your mistake.
In the original post, as well as in the article the Wiz posted, he very clearly indicates that this bet is meant for, and is being offered on, a double zero game.
Oh Lord, give me strength. That's what I wrote about Teddy.
October 5th, 2020 at 9:46:55 AM
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Oh. The way you worded it made me think you though it was played on single zero roulette.
Yes, you’re right. It has a higher house than single zero roulette.
But it has a lower house edge than double zero roulette, and that’s where the bet is offered.
I’m adjusting something I said earlier. The bold is my new part:
Yes, you’re right. It has a higher house than single zero roulette.
But it has a lower house edge than double zero roulette, and that’s where the bet is offered.
I’m adjusting something I said earlier. The bold is my new part:
Of course, if they really understood the math, they’d play single zero...Quote: DJTeddyBearThis is NOT a sucker bet. Any roulette player who plays double zero roulette, and has a hint about the math, should play this.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 5th, 2020 at 11:21:09 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearOf course, if they really understood the math, they’d play single zero...
I still don't quite agree. That "normal" roulette beats this pie in the sky bet doesn't make it the best variant. French Roulette halves that 2.70% to 1.35% and that's not nearly all. I especially like the Cayetano Money Back variant where if 0 is spun on any bet, the player is given a fair 50:50 chance to save the stake (they use the simplest - Head or Tail). Now that's a roulette Heather could be excited about! From 1/19 to 1/74 house edge and two games in one which makes it more fun than Roulette73 that never went off.
Last edited by: MattUK on Oct 5, 2020
October 5th, 2020 at 2:23:21 PM
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Matt -
I agree with you.
However, with the way TRIPLE zero roulette is gaining installs, your wish for French Roulette and the Cayetano Money Back variant don’t have much chance of being offered. At least not with all the money grubbing corporate casinos here in the USA.
I agree with you.
However, with the way TRIPLE zero roulette is gaining installs, your wish for French Roulette and the Cayetano Money Back variant don’t have much chance of being offered. At least not with all the money grubbing corporate casinos here in the USA.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 5th, 2020 at 3:07:09 PM
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Oh Teddy, don't go where you're mistaken for a fool. Head to whoever still has French Roulette with La Partage and bet on Red! That's the best roulette bet in Las Vegas. And the whole USA for that matter.
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/roulette-survey/
Don't forget to take Heather with you. :-) She has no idea!
PS: BTW, the above survey needs some explanation regarding MGM Grand. I don't think one can bet 25$ on La Partage, for a 12.50$ payout. It's almost certainly 50$ minimum on La Partage, 25$ on anything else.
https://wizardofvegas.com/guides/roulette-survey/
Don't forget to take Heather with you. :-) She has no idea!
PS: BTW, the above survey needs some explanation regarding MGM Grand. I don't think one can bet 25$ on La Partage, for a 12.50$ payout. It's almost certainly 50$ minimum on La Partage, 25$ on anything else.
October 5th, 2020 at 3:44:32 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThat said, why would the casino offer this? Perhaps THEY don’t understand the math.
This is purely a guess but I could see one motivation being keeping people at the table. Maybe the hope is people will get in the hole with the bet and then stick around longer than they normally would trying to hit it to get a big score. I don’t like roulette but I know many people who do and they find it extremely painful to walk away from a wheel and then see a number/numbers hit that would result in a big payday. I see that effect x10 here. (350 vs 35:1 to really drive home the regret of walking). Anyway, just a guess.
If anyone gives you 10,000 to 1 on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I am going to be a very rich dude.
October 5th, 2020 at 4:46:38 PM
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Where exactly is the problem? Not in the house edge as it's still above even single 0 roulette. That one bet is not awful doesn't mean that "THEY don’t understand the math" as Teddy put it. It's merely ironic that the side bet is better than the main game.
Good point. I think somebody tried to make it 10x maximum on normal roulette. Which you can make only by making the hit frequency around 10 times rarer, obviously. I don't feel this extension is really that necessary.
Quote:I see that effect x10 here. (350 vs 35:1 to really drive home the regret of walking).
Good point. I think somebody tried to make it 10x maximum on normal roulette. Which you can make only by making the hit frequency around 10 times rarer, obviously. I don't feel this extension is really that necessary.
Last edited by: MattUK on Oct 5, 2020
October 5th, 2020 at 5:19:40 PM
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Quote: MattUKOh Teddy, don't go where you're mistaken for a fool. Head to whoever still has French Roulette with La Partage and bet on Red! That's the best roulette bet in Las Vegas. And the whole USA for that matter.
Single-zero and especially French roulette have high minimums here in the US that most players would not be comfortable with.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 5th, 2020 at 5:25:50 PM
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Quote: WizardSingle-zero and especially French roulette have high minimums here in the US that most players would not be comfortable with.
Of course, good bets are for VIPs only. Pity, really. You can bet 10 GBP on La Partage pretty much everywhere for a 5 GBP salvaged on 0.
October 5th, 2020 at 5:36:07 PM
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Quote: MattUKOf course, good bets are for VIPs only. Pity, really. You can bet 10 GBP on La Partage pretty much everywhere for a 5 GBP salvaged on 0.
Be thankful for that. Here the casino management thinking is, "Let's double the house edge by adding a zero, these stupid player will probably play MORE. " The sad thing is -- they would probably be right.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 5th, 2020 at 8:35:38 PM
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So what am I supposed to do? Place an equal bet on red and black and just play this side bet?
I haven’t played roulette in a decade, but I do look at the electronic boards frequently just to see the patterns of the numbers come up and I have seen back to back numbers come up, so two back to back greens is very possible, especially when there is two.
I haven’t played roulette in a decade, but I do look at the electronic boards frequently just to see the patterns of the numbers come up and I have seen back to back numbers come up, so two back to back greens is very possible, especially when there is two.
October 6th, 2020 at 1:12:11 AM
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Quote: VegasriderSo what am I supposed to do? Place an equal bet on red and black and just play this side bet?
There's a spot for it on the layout, above the 0-00 area.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 6th, 2020 at 1:30:55 AM
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I am confused, will try to read guide.
October 6th, 2020 at 4:18:49 AM
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Quote: Vegasridertwo back to back greens is very possible, especially when there is two.
Once every 361 spins, to be exact.
October 6th, 2020 at 6:13:33 AM
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Wizard, I think it's worth to compare this unique "side bet" against at least two other of this kind.
One is Roulette Royale by Microgaming which is a "normal" roulette with the following side bets.
- the same number twice in a row pays $15
- three in a row pays $200
- four times in a row pays $3000
- five times in a row pays jackpot, currently at 396,824 (Break-even Value at 760,501)
The other that I am aware of is Roulette Premium by Paf. They are mumming the word as to the rules except that the higher the bet the better chance to win (which may or may not mean it's rising linearly). I understand there is no side bet as such, so whatever the exact rules are, the house edge is below 2.70%.
https://www.paf.com/en/table-games/demo/paf?game=com_premiumroulette
I would love to know the current RTP for that roulette.
One is Roulette Royale by Microgaming which is a "normal" roulette with the following side bets.
- the same number twice in a row pays $15
- three in a row pays $200
- four times in a row pays $3000
- five times in a row pays jackpot, currently at 396,824 (Break-even Value at 760,501)
The other that I am aware of is Roulette Premium by Paf. They are mumming the word as to the rules except that the higher the bet the better chance to win (which may or may not mean it's rising linearly). I understand there is no side bet as such, so whatever the exact rules are, the house edge is below 2.70%.
https://www.paf.com/en/table-games/demo/paf?game=com_premiumroulette
I would love to know the current RTP for that roulette.
October 6th, 2020 at 6:55:26 AM
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That sounds a lot exactly like the idea I first floated in 2010, Hit It Again, except my payouts were $25, $250, $2,500, $125,000. House edge was 8.65%.Quote: MattUK...One is Roulette Royale by Microgaming which is a "normal" roulette with the following side bets.
- the same number twice in a row pays $15
- three in a row pays $200
- four times in a row pays $3000
- five times in a row pays jackpot, currently at 396,824 (Break-even Value at 760,501).
I was told it had little appeal, and that casinos wouldn’t want to let go of that much money at one time, despite what the math said.
More info: http://www.davemillergaming.com/hia/
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 7th, 2020 at 7:47:16 PM
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I'm in shock this thread's made it to 3 pages and no one's brought up the issue with this bet yet.
From my understanding, table game wins are required to be smacked with a W2-G if they are a win of at least $600 and 300x the base bet.
A player who parlays on a number and wins both times successfully will have won 35:1 both times, and neither win gets a forced declaration of income. A player who bets more than $1 on the 2G'$ on double zero and wins will end up having to admit they won that money and pay taxes on it. A player who bets even $1 on it and wins on it on single zero will get hit with the W2-G.
A gambler in even a modest tax bracket makes out better taking the slightly lower payout of a normal parlay and not eating the taxes on it, compared to a slightly higher payout that Uncle Sam is privy to, in most cases.
From my understanding, table game wins are required to be smacked with a W2-G if they are a win of at least $600 and 300x the base bet.
A player who parlays on a number and wins both times successfully will have won 35:1 both times, and neither win gets a forced declaration of income. A player who bets more than $1 on the 2G'$ on double zero and wins will end up having to admit they won that money and pay taxes on it. A player who bets even $1 on it and wins on it on single zero will get hit with the W2-G.
A gambler in even a modest tax bracket makes out better taking the slightly lower payout of a normal parlay and not eating the taxes on it, compared to a slightly higher payout that Uncle Sam is privy to, in most cases.
October 8th, 2020 at 6:54:52 AM
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Quote: MewtwoI'm in shock this thread's made it to 3 pages and no one's brought up the issue with this bet yet.
From my understanding, table game wins are required to be smacked with a W2-G if they are a win of at least $600 and 300x the base bet.
A player who parlays on a number and wins both times successfully will have won 35:1 both times, and neither win gets a forced declaration of income. A player who bets more than $1 on the 2G'$ on double zero and wins will end up having to admit they won that money and pay taxes on it. A player who bets even $1 on it and wins on it on single zero will get hit with the W2-G.
A gambler in even a modest tax bracket makes out better taking the slightly lower payout of a normal parlay and not eating the taxes on it, compared to a slightly higher payout that Uncle Sam is privy to, in most cases.
Very good point! I should have thought of that. You're right about the W2-G requirements in table games. I just added a comment about that to my page.
I also have learned there is a single-zero version of this bet available, which I also now mention in my 2G'$ page.
By the way, the game debuts tomorrow at the Gold Coast. I hear they will be giving out swag.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
October 8th, 2020 at 7:34:08 AM
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I have an idea for a "2in1" version of the French Roulette. Instead of taking half of the stake when 0 is spun, the same effect but with additional "game within the game" would be made by introducing a fair 50:50 chance to save it intact. For simplicity, I suggest the outcome of the previous spin. If it was the same, the stake is saved. If it was the opposite, it's lost. If it was green 0 too, we move another spin back. This requires a display with the last outcomes, but they are quite popular anyway.
For example, I bet 100 on Red and green 0 is spun. The previous outcome was 32 red, so my stake is saved (basically, I win a tie).
Note that it would allow playing with 25$ chips (and any other as far as the game is concerned) and works for any of the 6 even money bets.
For example, I bet 100 on Red and green 0 is spun. The previous outcome was 32 red, so my stake is saved (basically, I win a tie).
Note that it would allow playing with 25$ chips (and any other as far as the game is concerned) and works for any of the 6 even money bets.
October 8th, 2020 at 8:45:39 AM
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Quote: MattUKI have an idea for a "2in1" version of the French Roulette. Instead of taking half of the stake when 0 is spun, the same effect but with additional "game within the game" would be made by introducing a fair 50:50 chance to save it intact. For simplicity, I suggest the outcome of the previous spin. If it was the same, the stake is saved. If it was the opposite, it's lost. If it was green 0 too, we move another spin back. This requires a display with the last outcomes, but they are quite popular anyway.
For example, I bet 100 on Red and green 0 is spun. The previous outcome was 32 red, so my stake is saved (basically, I win a tie).
Note that it would allow playing with 25$ chips (and any other as far as the game is concerned) and works for any of the 6 even money bets.
You should always just bet the last color in that case. Think you need to use the spin after the green.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
October 8th, 2020 at 8:57:01 AM
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Correction.Quote: DJTeddyBearThat sounds a lot exactly like the idea I first floated in 2010, Hit It Again...
More info: http://www.davemillergaming.com/hia/
Because it works with 0 or 00, the 2G$ bet is not that much like my Hit It Again side bet.
However, the single zero version of 2G$ is a lot like my bet.
The difference is, in my bet, you're simply betting that whatever the last result was will repeat up to 4 more times.
Yeah, I know that's very rare, but that's why it would have paid a huge jackpot.
And so many people told me that no casino would ever be interested in such a side bet. Sigh...
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
October 8th, 2020 at 9:15:37 AM
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Really silly mistake from me. Thanks for the correction. Next spin does it.
October 8th, 2020 at 9:42:06 AM
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Quote: MattUKReally silly mistake from me. Thanks for the correction. Next spin does it.
En prison rule for roulette from the Wikipedia: https://bit.ly/3nrVJp0
In roulette, the en prison rule is an opportunity to recover one's stakes after a spin of zero, provided one's bet was even-odds (i.e. high–low, even–odd, red–black). It is a variant of the la partage rule, in which a player loses only half their even-odds stake if the original spin is a zero, recouping the other half (partage being French for "sharing"). In European casinos, where la partage is customary, the player may be given the option instead to place their original stake en prison ("in prison" in French). The stake is left on the previous bet, and the croupier places a marker on it to show it is en prison. If the bet wins on the next spin, the player's stake is returned; if it loses, it is forfeited. Different casinos adopt different rules for the case where zero comes up a second time: it may be treated as won, lost, la partage or en prison.
The 'La Partage' version of Roulette is more favorable towards the player when compared to the standard American and European Roulette Games. It has a payout percentage of 98.65%, which means the house edge is 1.35%, but this is only the case when the player is betting on a two-sided outside bet. https://bit.ly/3nrVJp0
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Oct 8, 2020
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com
October 8th, 2020 at 9:56:17 AM
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True my friend. That shows the need for a 50:50 game saving the stake, but obviously unrelated to actual betting. Could be some additional mechanism on the roulette wheel activated by the dealer when 0 is spun.
Last edited by: MattUK on Oct 8, 2020
October 8th, 2020 at 11:22:40 AM
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In order to place a prop bet, you must actually place and play a regular hand. So in roulette, will they let you place an even bet on red and black or odd and even and then place the 2G bet?
October 9th, 2020 at 3:01:42 PM
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Quote: MrCasinoGamesEn prison rule for roulette from the Wikipedia: https://bit.ly/3nrVJp0
You're right. What I have in mind can be called "instant en prison" - all even-money bets would be resolved before another spin by a 50:50 game. It could (and should) be just one outcome valid for all even-money bets on the table so either everyone would save their stakes or lose them. It could be a small electronic game within the roulette wheel. For example, most roulette wheels have 4 handles to make the spin. Say that one axis is N-S and the other W-E. After 0 is spun, one is selected randomly and light up and then one of these two is selected again. If it matches all the stakes tie, with some lights and fanfare. If it's adjacent they lose. This neatly combines the best of en prison (double or nothing instead of half) and la partage (1.35% house edge and outcome after every spin). Not to mention eliminate halving the stakes.
Each casino already having French Roulette, that is Aria, Bellagio, Encore, Mandalay Bay, MGM Grand, Mirage and Wynn should be interested in stealing the show and launching it.
Last edited by: MattUK on Oct 9, 2020
