lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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Thanks for this post from:
CyrusVGialmere
April 28th, 2019 at 1:55:11 AM permalink
in Dominican Republic
it's an old story from 2012 but I'd never seen it before and it was interesting to me which is why I posted it
the casino was associated with the Riu hotel chain, an international hotel chain
the game is similar to the carney scam called "razzle dazzle"



Cliffs:
-couple goes into casino
-offered $25 "complimentary" casino chips to play a specific game that looks like complicated roulette
-after playing a while they are told they are one point away from winning a big jackpot
-they continue to play (unbeknownst to them they are now playing on credit)
-they don't hit jackpot (which is actually impossible to win) and they are told by security they owe $1000 (which somehow converts to $6500 CND)
-they are led to ATM by security who bully them into making multiple withdrawals and calls to their bank until they transfer/pay a total of $6500
-they go back to their hotel and complain; hotel manager says they have no recourse because the hotel isn't affiliated with casino; kicks them out of hotel!
-Sunwing (travel company) relocates them to different hotel
-they try going to police station but this is such a common scam it's basically useless

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/jay-lush-casino-scam-riu-bambu-dominican-sunwing-1.5100278

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razzle_(game)

TripAdvisor reports of similar casino scams some in Dominican in Riu hotel:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g147288-d1019356-Reviews-Riu_Palace_Macao_Casino-Dominican_Republic.html#REVIEWS


Please don't feed the trolls
RS
RS
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April 28th, 2019 at 2:18:32 AM permalink
Ah, I was confused as to how the player gets hooked if it's so hard to win any points or advance. But it definitely makes sense that they'd cheat in your favor to give you a few points here and there to really draw you in.

That'd be funny if someone played it, rolled a 29 the first 3-4 times (and therefore had to double their bet, but also get more prizes), then hit them with a total of 8 (or w/e the auto-win is) and win like 5 prizes for just $15. Of course that's astronomically unlikely to happen, but still tho.
Nathan
Nathan
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April 28th, 2019 at 5:03:10 AM permalink
I have a question that screams logic. What if you simply tell these crooks,"I don't have $6500 in my bank?" Many people don't have $6500 in their bank account.
In both The Hunger Games and in gambling, may the odds be ever in your favor. :D "Man Babes" #AxelFabulous "Olive oil is processed but it only has one ingredient, olive oil."-Even Bob, March 27/28th. :D The 2 year war is over! Woo-hoo! :D I sometimes speak in metaphors. ;) Remember this. ;) Crack the code. :D 8.9.13.25.14.1.13.5.9.19.14.1.20.8.1.14! :D "For about the 4096th time, let me offer a radical idea to those of you who don't like Nathan -- block her and don't visit Nathan's Corner. What is so complicated about it?" Wizard, August 21st. :D
FleaStiff
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April 28th, 2019 at 5:11:56 AM permalink
People who go on expensive vacations generally have credit cards and can always be taken to a local place that buys plasma and threatened with dirty needles and a beating.
Hullabaloo
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BleedingChipsSlowlyaceofspades
April 28th, 2019 at 5:49:50 AM permalink
That video above also had another link that went to another explanation of the scam that had some good additional information.

onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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April 28th, 2019 at 8:57:41 AM permalink
Quote: Nathan

I have a question that screams logic. What if you simply tell these crooks,"I don't have $6500 in my bank?" Many people don't have $6500 in their bank account.

It's a scam, probably doesn't matter. They take from whom they can.
I am a robot.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
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April 28th, 2019 at 8:59:35 AM permalink
Quote: RS

Ah, I was confused as to how the player gets hooked if it's so hard to win any points or advance. But it definitely makes sense that they'd cheat in your favor to give you a few points here and there to really draw you in.

That'd be funny if someone played it, rolled a 29 the first 3-4 times (and therefore had to double their bet, but also get more prizes), then hit them with a total of 8 (or w/e the auto-win is) and win like 5 prizes for just $15. Of course that's astronomically unlikely to happen, but still tho.

They probably cheat. If someone wins, they audible.
I am a robot.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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April 28th, 2019 at 9:00:55 AM permalink
Apparently, the scam is still happening (check the comments)
MDawg
MDawg
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April 28th, 2019 at 10:00:42 AM permalink
Not the same thing of course, but slot machines used to employ "near miss" technology where players would for example routinely get all but the last piece (on the reel, screen) of whatever they needed to fulfill the jackpot, and be enticed into paying for another spin, thinking they "just missed it" and were "getting close." I understand this is illegal in some states now, including New Jersey and Nevada.

I have never watched or played more than a few minutes on a slot machine in Nevada, but I have watched (do not play myself) slots in California Indian casinos. I have noticed that the "Bonus" pile ups on these California electronic slots - the action that has to accumulate visually to get you the free spins or whatever - seems to employ this "near miss" technology. Recently when a family member was playing I commented that she was "just about to get the bonus" as the dots or whatever seemed to be piling up near where they needed to flow through to activate the bonus, but she flat out told me that, "No, they just make it look that way." Maybe the "near miss" technology ban hasn't yet extended to how close you are to hitting the bonus?
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
AxelWolf
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April 28th, 2019 at 10:59:08 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Not the same thing of course, but slot machines used to employ "near miss" technology where players would for example routinely get all but the last piece (on the reel, screen) of whatever they needed to fulfill the jackpot, and be enticed into paying for another spin, thinking they "just missed it" and were "getting close." I understand this is illegal in some states now, including New Jersey and Nevada.

I'm not sure exactly how its defined, however, I would say that it's still going on.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
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April 28th, 2019 at 1:08:35 PM permalink
the credit part of the scam is worked at some strip clubs too

a stripper sits down at your table and a $150 bottle of champagne that you did not order arrives

you're expected to pay for it and tip the stripper generously

if you try to leave without paying you get threatened to get the sh** beat out of you by the bouncer
Please don't feed the trolls
FleaStiff
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April 28th, 2019 at 1:45:09 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

if you try to leave without paying you get threatened to get the sh** beat out of you by the bouncer

Unless its an upscale gentlemen's club, no sensible man goes solo. If you give in to that first overcharge they know you will give in to them all.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
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Thanks for this post from:
Gialmere
April 28th, 2019 at 2:15:28 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Not the same thing of course, but slot machines used to employ "near miss" technology where players would for example routinely get all but the last piece (on the reel, screen) of whatever they needed to fulfill the jackpot, and be enticed into paying for another spin, thinking they "just missed it" and were "getting close." I understand this is illegal in some states now, including New Jersey and Nevada.


It's only illegal (in Nevada, at least) if it's not based on independent reels.

In other words, it's perfectly legal to have a slot machine where the symbols next to the jackpot on the last reel are each six times as likely to come up as the jackpot symbol itself, so "jackpot - jackpot - missed by one" is 12 times as likely as "jackpot - jackpot - jackpot", and if this applies to the other three reels as well, then any combination of two jackpot symbols and "missed by one" is 36 times as likely as the jackpot. However, "(any particular result) - (any particular result) - missed the jackpot by one" must also be 12 times as likely as "(any particular result) - (any particular result) - jackpot", and if it applies to all three reels, then having all three of the reels miss by one is 1728 times as likely as winning the jackpot.

However, you cannot "predetermine a loss" and then have two jackpot symbols be more likely to show up as a result.
MDawg
MDawg
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April 28th, 2019 at 10:41:28 PM permalink
If I followed you (not at all sure!), what does your second paragraph have to do with "near miss" programming. A "near-miss" above or below the payline is legal only if not specially programmed. If the near-miss is just as likely to occur as any other combination, only then is it legal. The machine cannot be specially programmed to show "winning combinations" more frequently than other combinations above or below the payline.

Basically - near miss programming is where what appears on the screen has no relevance to what actually happened. Your description seems to refer to situations where whatever shows on the reels is correspondent to what the actual odds are, or were. Near misses still occur, legally, but now the frequency with which they occur is directly related to how frequently symbols appear on the virtual reels defined in the programming of the machine.

"Predetermining a loss" (or win) is EXACTLY what all of these electronic machines DO. The moment you push the button its computer already knows whether you will win or lose, the outcome is already set in its brain. All those spinning reels or moving images have nothing to do with the predetermined outcome.

If you mean "predetermined" as in, pre-determined before the button is even pushed, no, the machines do not pre-determine in that way. But once you push the button, it's a done deal. The reels and display are just for your amusement. Basically, it's when the reels and display imply that you "just missed" a jackpot, when in fact, you were not close to winning anything, that the law is broken.

Machines that used a secondary decision worked this way. The RNG was used to select from a pool consisting of particular winning combinations and "loser." If "loser" was chosen, the programming running the slot machine would then poll the RNG again to choose from a pool of losing combinations that favored exciting losing combinations over boring ones. An exciting losing combination, for example, is two Double Diamond symbols on the payline on the first two reel and a Double Diamond one stop above or below the payline on the last reel. A boring near miss is something like an any bar combination that doesn't land completely on the payline.

The problem with the secondary decision is that it made it look like the jackpot symbol was more likely to land on the payline that it actually was. Every losing spin, in fact, provided no information about how likely it was for symbols to land on the payline because different processes were used to select the symbols for winning spins and for losing spins.

Slots using a secondary decision were considered to be misleading. The Nevada gaming commission wrote regulations requiring electronic slots to display the result determined by the RNG with no secondary decision or other alteration whatsoever.

From all the way back in 1989
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-06-04-mn-2501-story.html
"Nearly 10% of Nevada's 122,000 slot machines are being retrofitted after a decision by gaming authorities that players were being misled by a "near-miss" feature into thinking they were about to hit jackpots."

https://books.google.com/books?id=FxOAAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT72&lpg=PT72&dq=%22near+miss%22+slots+illegal+nevada+new+jersey&source=bl&ots=JGIExtySXE&sig=ACfU3U2UlR_nqDcGvrtELiP9zVa0m3RIOA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-tfzuyfThAhVSiOAKHQvHBDkQ6AEwDnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22near%20miss%22%20slots%20illegal%20nevada%20new%20jersey&f=false
"The practice of showing combinations that are similar to winning combinations more frequently than would occur randomly is called 'near-miss' programming. It has been ruled illegal in the U.S. states of Nevada and New Jersey. The Nevada Gaming commission did review some machines with this type of programming and refused to authorize them."


I dunno maybe at the end of the day you and I are saying the same thing, but I read what you wrote as describing something other than near miss programming, and then saying that what you described was legal.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

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