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Joined: Jan 12, 2010
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April 28th, 2018 at 10:37:55 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

How do you explain getting from 12 to 13?

Got me there! 😁

Did notice this. Start at 2 and add the next three, (14, 35, 23), etc., and they all add up to 74 with the last two number adding up to 37.
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
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April 28th, 2018 at 11:03:58 PM permalink
[ _ ] I've been wondering this for years.
[ _ ] What difference does the order make?
[ _ ] How about a single-zero wheel?
[ _ ] Let's discuss that biased roulette wheel on TBBT.
[ _ ] Total eclipse reminder -- 04/08/2024
[ _ ] These WoO Academy videos are too long and boring.
[ _ ] I can tell the difference between butter & Parkay.
[ _ ] I say I like jazz -- but really don't.
[ _ ] Wiz, did you lose some weight since Cutting Edge?
[ _ ] What does the thyroid do?
[ X ] To get what actually matters about the matter, Mike Caro's Roulette System #1 did it all firstest & bestest, still gets everything any dudes or dudettes ever need to know on the whole roulette orderly numberology thing for all of ever.

Here she be, still one hot mama of a system after all these years: Caros Roulette System #1

Startling disclosure by respected gambling authority has casino execs scratching heads

NOTE TO READER: The following message was posted to the newsgroup in 1997. Mike Caro was responding to a request for a good roulette system. Caro, who has for years maintained that you cannot overcome the odds against you at craps or roulette, steadfastly believes in this system. He calls it Caros Roulette System #1. Surprisingly, some of the top mathematicians in the world have endorsed it... ...<SNIP>...

And totally endorsed by real lifelike innerwebz science-y type people after magic secret decoded by truth-y geeks at:
PhysicsForums (thread pg. 2):
Quote: Geeks discussin' geek details - boring stuff to skip


...But by phrasing it this way, as excluding 30 and also numbers from 11 to 14 it doesn't sound so drastic, since 11 to 14 intuitively sounds like a small range. This helps make the trick a bit less obvious. Cheers -- sylas

Science Advisor russ_watters said: ↑ Isn't that just what laymen call "watching"?

sylas - Well, if you want to skip over all the technical details and calculations of mean return etc... yes.

Finally, the wizardly power in the special secret sauce of the magic roulette fairy dust gets revealed by Mike "The Mad Genius of Commerce Casino" Caro: Caros Roulette System #1 - EXPLAINED
Quote: Mad Maniac Mike (the other one)

Read only after youve seen Caros Roulette System #1.


Last edited by: DrawingDead on Apr 28, 2018
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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April 28th, 2018 at 11:26:10 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You're absolutely right. I think the reason the numbers are spread around is to make it more difficult to notice a biased wheel.

I believe it's even simpler than that. It's to
give the player the absolute assurance
of random. Look at our wheel, the casino
says, the numbers are spaced to counter-
balance each pocket numerically, for R/B,
O/E and H/L also. This assures you of a
random outcome, so we can play with

This is done on every kind of roulette wheel,
it differs by 0 and 0/00 types, and by
manufacturer. I believe that if the numbers
were in numerical order, people would freak
out that the casino was cheating them somehow.

I'm not sure they were even aware of bias when
roulette was in it's infancy and the numbering
thing started. In EU casinos, you were lucky if
they spun half a dozen numbers an hour. They
didn't use chips, they used actual money. So
after every spin they had to determine who
made what bet, it was a real cluster frick. With
so few spins per day, detecting bias would not
have been much of a concern.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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April 29th, 2018 at 2:22:46 AM permalink
This reminds me of the thread where we discussed how dice were designed; at first you might wonder what the point is, but after a while a certain fascination builds [speaking for myself anyway]

I find the single zero wheel to be even more perplexing

the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell! She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Joined: Sep 13, 2010
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April 29th, 2018 at 3:48:40 AM permalink
Any Idea How I Design my Roulette-18​​® Wheel and/or Dice as show below?

Roulette-18®. How to Play.
Roulette-18®. Math at Wizard of Odds.

Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®)
Joined: Feb 5, 2011
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April 29th, 2018 at 6:07:16 AM permalink
I think they're placed the same way you'd tighten lug nuts on a 38 lug wheel?
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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April 29th, 2018 at 7:23:23 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You're absolutely right. I think the reason the numbers are spread around is to make it more difficult to notice a biased wheel. For example, if the part of the wheel around 23 were lowest, then you notice a lot of numbers winning in the low 20's. Make the order seem random and it is harder to tell.

As I just said at DT, modern roulette wheels are very fair and balanced, but maybe 200 years ago that wasn't so much the case.

IMHO, it also makes it impossible to have a croupier control where the ball might land. While hitting a single number anywhere beyond random would be impossible, if the wheel is spun at a near constant speed a skilled person could probably hit a section of numbers with lots of practice. Yes, lots and lots, and not everyone, But if someone could do it and got a team they could trust, said team could spread bets over the area of numbers to grind out some wins.

As to the pattern, it is very clever. While I figured it out in a few hours, I thought I had it several times, only to find I did not. You cannot get the pattern by looking at red/black on the layout (at least I could not, which I tried to find the pattern just by looking there.) Players will probably look at the layout, not the wheel, as it is easier to stare out and check out. Even when I found the "groups of 4" there are a couple "throwaway" groups of just 2 to throw you off.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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April 29th, 2018 at 8:01:52 AM permalink
I just realized my initial post does not correctly place the number 11. Let me rephrase as follows:

  1. Position the 00 at the 12:00 position and the 0 at the 6:00 position.
  2. The numbers at the top of the wheel are 13, 1, 00, 27, 10*, 25. This must simply be memorized.
  3. All low odd numbers (from 1 to 17) are on the left side and the high odds (19 to 35) on the right side.
  4. Starting with the 1 and 13, move four positions counter-clockwise to get the next odd, but do not pass the zero.
  5. As an exception to rule 4, do not place the 19 four positions counter-clockwise from the 17, because the 19 is a high odd and belongs on the right side. Instead, put the 11, the only low odd not otherwise covered in rule 4.
  6. All even numbers are directly across the wheel, 180 degrees, from the preceding odd number.

A couple members have suggested this method via PM:

  1. Position the 00 at the 12:00 position and the 0 at the 6:00 position.
  2. Divide the wheel into groups of four numbers, starting with the 00.
  3. Define a low number as 1-12, medium as 13-24, and high as 25-36.
  4. Consider the four four-number slices on the left side of the wheel, starting with the four-number slice to the left of the 00. Put from right to left in each slice, starting with the top, and moving counter-clockwise: lowest remaining low odd, lowest remaining middle odd, highest remaining high even, highest remaining middle even.
  5. Exception to rule 4: Place an 11 instead of the 19.
  6. After the 26, place a 9 and 28, in order.
  7. After the zero, continue breaking up the wheel into four-number slices, continuing to go counter-clockwise.
  8. As you move around the wheel, put the following in each four-number slice: lowest remaining low even, lowest remaining middle even, highest remaining high odd, highest remaining middle odd.
  9. Exceptions to the above: Place an 12 instead of the 20 and a 25 instead of 17.
  10. After the 25, place a 10 and 27, in order.

Did I get the above right?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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April 29th, 2018 at 8:55:28 AM permalink
1. Position the 00 at the 12:00 and the 0 at the 06:00 Position - 2A and 2B instructions are for the left side of the wheel - 3A and 3B instructions are for the right side

2A. Counter-clockwise the order is 2 odd numbers followed by 2 even numbers except for the last two numbers before 00 which are one odd/one even

2B. The first two odd numbers are the first 2 odd numbers of the lower and middle dozen (1,13).

The first two even numbers are the last two even numbers of the upper and middle dozen (36,24)

The second two odd numbers are the second 2 odd numbers in the lower and middle dozens (3, 15)

The second two even numbers are the next to last two even numbers in the upper and middle dozens (34,22)

The third two odd numbers are the third 2 odd numbers in the lower and and middle dozens (5,17)

The third two even numbers are the 3rd to last two even numbers in the upper and middle dozen (32,20)

The fourth two odd numbers are the 4th and 6th odd numbers from the lower dozen (7,11)

The fourth two even numbers are the fourth to last and sixth to last two numbers from the upper dozen (30,26)

The last two numbers are fifth odd number of the lower dozen and the 5th to last even number of the upper dozen (9,28)

3A. Pattern is same for right side of the wheel except even/odd numbers instead of odd/even numbers
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
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April 29th, 2018 at 10:49:14 AM permalink
Quote: megapixels

I think they're placed the same way you'd tighten lug nuts on a 38 lug wheel?

Hey! To my eye it appears there's really something to this! Were there some 38 spoke carriage wheels around on the streets of Paris in 17th century France?
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf

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