Easy Jack

Quote: Wizard

I think you may be overthinking it. For practical purposes, if I devised a count for this game it would have these indices:

Ace: -5
2 to 6: +1

I agree with that, but I still think that my method is easy enough for just about anyone to do. Further, with this, you would still have to do true count conversions. True count conversions come built in to my method.

I guess my contention would be that your idea would likely be better for someone who counts Blackjack already and is familiar with doing that. For someone who doesn't, I really like my method because there aren't too many implements (such as true count conversion) required in traditional counting that need to be learned.

Quote: lightningbolts

lol EoR's are way too small to have an edge very often...I ran this last night and I can post later, but the edge from wonging is so small for both base game and side bet I didn't even bother to show sim results.

The question is though, if you had a terrible dealer who somehow exposed his hole card what would you do? What about lowering variance and increasing play time by backcounting aces then hopping on when aces are gone. Because with the correct strategy you will look obvious. You stand everything dealer 2-6, then hit if you're lower than dealer otherwise. This is worth over 10% edge.

Well, it would be just like hole carding Blackjack in the sense that you would want to gain an advantage, but would avoid doing any stupidly obvious plays. For example, I don't think you would hit a nine against a known dealer ten much in the same fashion as you would not hit a nineteen against a known dealer twenty. Your profits would have to be realized in the trenches, and only by way of doing those decisions that make you look like an erratic player rather than a clairvoyant one.

With the EoR's, I kind of disagree about having an edge very often if you can back count with relative impunity. More than anything, I would be interested in knowing how much they are cutting off of the deck. Let's say it's two decks and you want 1 in 11.5 cards to be an Ace, as a worst case.

Expected Aces: 104 * 1/13 = 8

Desired Aces: 104 * 1/11.5 = 9.04 (or 10)

It's really not difficult to imagine ten Aces left as that deck dwindles down, so let's take a peak at the change in house edge (other cards distributed equally) with both Nine Aces and with Ten:

(9/104) * (95/103) * 1.5 = 0.11972554144 -.116166 = 0.00355954144 or 0.35595% PE

With Ten:

(10/104) * (94/103) * 1.5 = 0.13162808065 -.116166 = 0.01546208065 or 1.5462% PE

With Eleven:

(11/104) * (93/103) * 1.5 = 0.14325056011 -.116166 = 0.02708456011 or 2.70846% PE

I think back counting presents some good opportunity, though I do admit that playing from the top would be difficult due to how many shoes would not present an advantage combined with the HE the player would have to eat on so many hands.

Quote: Wizard

If using the Hi-Lo, I would stand on six in any positive count and stand on 5 with a true count of +4 or more. I'm just taking these numbers from the Hi Lo for a 15/16 vs. dealer 10. As was pointed out in another post, this game is blackjack where both parties start out with a 10.

For those thinking of devising a count tailor-made for this game, here is the effect of removal for each card in an eight-deck game.

Card	Effect
Ace	-0.001217
2	0.000250
3	0.000237
4	0.000224
5	0.000208
6	0.000339
7	-0.000191
8	-0.000099
9	-0.000014
10	0.000065

I'll let you take it from there.

I have calculated the EORs for the Easy Jack game and, if you use your Basic Strategy of Hit every 6, my calculated EOR values agree with yours as listed above.

However, if you Stand on every multicard 6 (such as 5A or 32A, etc.) the EORs are a little different - notably the EOR for 5 changes from the above value of 0.0208% to 0.0291%. This is because the dealer is hitting all their multi-card 6s and you are not -and thus the 5 is more helpful to the dealer.

EDIT: That EOR value for 5 that I have quoted is for STAND on multi-card 6s, but also for STAND on a one-card 6 when the count is favorable for doing so - and the removal of a single 5 means it optimal to stand on 6. So, the EOR value of 0.0291% for a 5 essentially applies to when you are standing on all 6s.

If you understood this last comment, please go to the front of the NERD line.

EO is Early Out... a list of dealers who want to go home early, having skinned enough suckers already.

EOR is ?????

Quote: FleaStiff

EO is Early Out... a list of dealers who want to go home early, having skinned enough suckers already.

EOR is ?????

Effect of removal

Quote: RS

Effect of removal

Danke Schoen.

I was disappointed that I didn't get a crack at this game for giggles. I saw it on my travels down one side of the strip with friends/family and immediately surmised what Mike already mentioned... Ace heavy count. I watched and back-counted about half a shoe, but it was quite negative from tons and tons of aces coming out and I didn't have much time, so had to move along. I wanted to play around with it for a bit of fun but nothing too crazy because if it is a good game then counters should AVOID IT FOR NOW and let it become more of a wide spread thing =).

Like BillRyan said it's way better than crapjack!

Quote: Wizard

Card	Effect
Ace	-0.001217
2	0.000250
3	0.000237
4	0.000224
5	0.000208
6	0.000339
7	-0.000191
8	-0.000099
9	-0.000014
10	0.000065

I'll let you take it from there.

interesting that the EoR for 10s is positive. makes sense since 10s do the player no good with the absence of double downs and not being required for a 3:2 payout. this definitely looks countable, but with 2-2.5 pen it probably isn't worth much. i'd be curious how often +EV counts happen since 9/13 cards have a +EoR.

Quote: StrangeMage

Quote: Wizard

Card	Effect
Ace	-0.001217
2	0.000250
3	0.000237
4	0.000224
5	0.000208
6	0.000339
7	-0.000191
8	-0.000099
9	-0.000014
10	0.000065

I'll let you take it from there.

interesting that the EoR for 10s is positive. makes sense since 10s do the player no good with the absence of double downs and not being required for a 3:2 payout. this definitely looks countable, but with 2-2.5 pen it probably isn't worth much. i'd be curious how often +EV counts happen since 9/13 cards have a +EoR.

Out. one.

It's coming to the end of the trial period... Has anyone recently been to play or know how the game has been doing?

Interesting article about it in today's paper. The inventor came up with the game while teaching his niece to count.
He moved to Vegas and took classes at UNLVs gaming school to get the math down right.
He was awarded first place in a student game design contest and was given the Harrahs tryout.
The article says the game is to stay there until the end of the year.

Quote: billryan

Interesting article about it in today's paper. The inventor came up with the game while teaching his niece to count.
He moved to Vegas and took classes at UNLVs gaming school to get the math down right.
He was awarded first place in a student game design contest and was given the Harrahs tryout.
The article says the game is to stay there until the end of the year.

I saw another article about it the other day. The game came out of the same UNLV program that Chinese War came out of...