lottery loser loses lawsuit
You can guess what happened next.
So Ifergan did what anyone would do: he spent 7 years and $100,000 in legal fees suing Loto-Quebec. He lost each appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada has declined to hear his case.
It stated the ticket's for the May 30 drawing. Not a chance in hell the lottery is going to honor it for another date.
To be fair, I would've sued too, but I would've dropped it after not getting some kind of settlement after the first lawsuit. Consuming 7 years of his life with this crap? lol..
Yep...no sales from 8:59p to 10p on drawing days.
http://www.molottery.com/powerball/molot-powerball.jsp
And reading the article posted, all the other Canadian provinces apparently do have a similar rule as well.
THis lawsuit had no chance.
Quote: UP84The second ticket had the May 30 play date printed on it. If the numbers on that ticket came in on May 30, does anyone think he would be claiming an error??!!
That's the key.
He was essentially trying to get one ticket to be valid for two drawings. Nice try buddy
Besides, he was given the option of a refund when he purchased it and saw the wrong date.
Quote: onenickelmiracleYou can't win lawsuits when merit is your only weapon.
Or when you don't even have that. I take the lottery's side on this one.
Quote: renoOk, my memory is a little hazy on this anecdote, so correct me if I get the details wrong. But a couple years back, the Wizard had a winning ticket (for a sports bet, I think) that he tried to redeem after the expiration date. Initially, the casino refused to honor the ticket, because it was well beyond the 60 day limit that was clearly printed on the ticket. ("The rules are the rules.") But the Wizard persisted and eventually the casino relented and gave him the money. It probably helped that he had a popular gambling math website, because certainly many players would probably fail to convince the casino to ignore its own rules.
I think that issue is a quite a bit different than the issue with the lottery ticket. In the Wizards case the ticket was a winner and the only issue is when the winnings were claimed. In the lottery issue the ticket was never a winning ticket because it was for the next weeks drawing. Now is the lottery ticket had been a winner and the guy had not turned it in before the due date then we would have the same issue. The sports winning ticket issue was much like having an expired TITO. At the casino I work for the TITOs do expire after 60 days but in most cases we would honor it anyway up to a year overdue.
Quote: waasnodayAt the casino I work for the TITOs do expire after 60 days but in most cases we would honor it anyway up to a year overdue.
I don't understand why casinos even bother printing an expiration date on the ticket if they don't mean it. Some rules in writing are to be enforced, but other rules in writing can be ignored? Makes no sense. Why not just be honest and print "EXPIRES IN 365 DAYS" on the ticket?
Quote: renoI don't understand why casinos even bother printing an expiration date on the ticket if they don't mean it. Some rules in writing are to be enforced, but other rules in writing can be ignored? Makes no sense. Why not just be honest and print "EXPIRES IN 365 DAYS" on the ticket?
I think a lot of the reason for this rule isn't necessarily regulatory issues as much as accounting issues. Its like gift cards at stores. Once that card is issued it is on the books as a liability that is owed. Companies don't like to have liabilities on the books for infinite amounts of time and so the expiration date allows them to remove it once the date has passed. In our case the majority of the expired TITOs are well under $100.00 and for the most part just nickels and dimes. If we have the ability to pay these without causing undue headache to the revenue audit crew then in the name of customer service and customer retention we like to pay them. It does not affect game play in anyway as far as fairness so we take a small hit to the books and move on.
These lottery tickets also carry a second lottery number on them that the player can choose to play or not called EXTRA in one province and ENCORE in others provinces .... the thing I find odd is in ONTARIO if you decline the ENCORE lottery game they do not print the ENCORE number on the ticket... but in Alberta they ask if you want the EXTRA on your ticket for $1 you say no they still print the EXTRA number on your ticket... so you can check if you would have won anything. The lotto business' way to try to get you to spend that extra $1 on each ticket you purchase
and in other news.... MICHIGAN yesterday has a DAILY 4 lottery at noon and around 7 or 8 pm at night the late Daily 4 draw
both draws yesterday resulted in 0,2,2,and 9 in that order so those lucky people who play both the midday Daily 4 and night time Daily 4 using 0,2,2 and 9 won $10,000 for the day .... would I be correct in saying the odds of the same numbers being drawn at both draws on the same day is 100,000,000 to 1 ? the spokes person from the lottery couldn't say what the odds of it happen was
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/01/30/michigan-lottery-numbers-twice/22581503/
No. That's the odds of any one person hitting both.Quote: coilman...both draws yesterday resulted in 0,2,2,and 9 in that order .... would I be correct in saying the odds of the same numbers being drawn at both draws on the same day is 100,000,000 to 1 ?
Since the first result can be anything, the odds that the second are the same is the same as the odds of having a winner. IE. 1 in 10,000.
Quote: renoOk, my memory is a little hazy on this anecdote, so correct me if I get the details wrong. But a couple years back, the Wizard had a winning ticket (for a sports bet, I think) that he tried to redeem after the expiration date. Initially, the casino refused to honor the ticket, because it was well beyond the 60 day limit that was clearly printed on the ticket. ("The rules are the rules.") But the Wizard persisted and eventually the casino relented and gave him the money. It probably helped that he had a popular gambling math website, because certainly many players would probably fail to convince the casino to ignore its own rules.
That's totally different.
If he bet tomorrow's yankees game instead of today's yankees game by mistake and tried to cash the ticket because the yankees won today and that's what he meant to bet on they would tell him to eff off.
Quote: JBHe has a somewhat plausible claim IF and ONLY IF the clerk submitted a single request for the two tickets. If that's what happened, then the "batch request" was clearly received in time by the central server (the proof being that the first ticket was for the earlier drawing) and therefore both tickets should have been for the earlier drawing since the two ticket requests were "atomically" received prior to the deadline. But without knowing if that's what happened (he might have asked for one ticket, and then asked for another after the first one was printed), or how the lottery terminals and central lottery server works, I agree with the courts.
That's what I was thinking.
Before I read the article I thought I was going to be reading about a frivolous lawsuit, but this guy had a legitimate claim.
Because of his location, he and his fellow Quebecians (Quebecites, Quebecois?) are at a disadvantage compared to the rest of Canada. It seems he purchased both tickets on the same batch. It should have spit the ticket out and then processed the numbers, not the other way around.
I agree with the litigant on this one.
I'm really surprised they didn't settle.
I have a expired TITO for just under 1k if anyone wants to make me a legitimate offer, it's only a few months expired. Cage girl said It had to be verified by accounting or some BS, but it was a weekend, so I'm procrastinating. I haven't yet been denied cashing one that fell within a year of the expiration date.Quote: waasnodayI think that issue is a quite a bit different than the issue with the lottery ticket. In the Wizards case the ticket was a winner and the only issue is when the winnings were claimed. In the lottery issue the ticket was never a winning ticket because it was for the next weeks drawing. Now is the lottery ticket had been a winner and the guy had not turned it in before the due date then we would have the same issue. The sports winning ticket issue was much like having an expired TITO. At the casino I work for the TITOs do expire after 60 days but in most cases we would honor it anyway up to a year overdue.
If anyone wants to take over the ticket and go through whatever process it might be worth your time. I supposes there is a risk they will deny it.
Quote: waasnodayIn regards to the 365 day expiration I totally agree but that is a decision by casino management and for some reason it seems 60 days was picked as the cut off. Maybe industry standard? Not really sure. It could also be some internal control set by the Nevada Gaming Commission but I am not really sure about that. For the most part I only deal with the NIGC MICS and our state compact.
Every jurisdiction is different on this. My home state of Missouri no longer allows TITO expiration. I'm a big proponent of this.
WOW SERIOUSLY? That's AWESOME for many reasons. That's how it should be for many reasons.Quote: tringlomaneEvery jurisdiction is different on this. My home state of Missouri no longer allows TITO expiration. I'm a big proponent of this.
Whats the maximum your tickets can be? Whats the max the slot machines will accept? Whats the max the self serve tito redemption machines will accept?
Can you mail in TITOS?
Quote: AxelWolfI have a expired TITO for just under 1k if anyone wants to make me a legitimate offer, it's only a few months expired. Cage girl said It had to be verified by accounting or some BS, but it was a weekend, so I'm procrastinating. I haven't yet been denied cashing one that fell within a year of the expiration date.
If anyone wants to take over the ticket and go through whatever process it might be worth your time. I supposes there is a risk they will deny it.
You might find someone who'll split the proceeds 50/50 w/ you if it's accepted by the casino, but I doubt anyone will give you cash up front for an expired ticket.. (At least not an amount you'd want.. like someone might take a chance on it for 20 bucks)
Quote: tringlomaneEvery jurisdiction is different on this. My home state of Missouri no longer allows TITO expiration. I'm a big proponent of this.
That is pretty nice! Would you happen to know how the casino accounts for that on their books? Just curious if they are allowed to write off the liability after a certain amount of time or if this is carried over forever.
Quote: waasnodayThat is pretty nice! Would you happen to know how the casino accounts for that on their books? Just curious if they are allowed to write off the liability after a certain amount of time or if this is carried over forever.
It's probably something similar to how doubtful accounts are recorded for people they've extended credit to.
They have an expectation of the % of the liability that will actually be claimed.
Quote: waasnodayThat's makes sense, thanks. The casino I audit doesn't offer credit but it sounds a bit like how we handle returned checks.
It puzzles me why some casinos don't offer credit.
It's practically one of the best ways to get people to gamble more than they can afford.
Quote: sc15It puzzles me why some casinos don't offer credit.
It's practically one of the best ways to get people to gamble more than they can afford.
It depends on who you are....or who they think you are. A friend of mine, Jose Cordova, told me how a few years back he and a couple of friends walked into MGM and were immediately set upon by suits offering his friend, Mike Houk, markers. Houk is the spitting image of Rick Harrison of Pawn Stars. The conversation went something like this:
"Rick Harrision, welcome to MGM. I can get you a $150,000 marker."
"I'm not Rick Harrison and I don't want a marker."
"Yeah, sure, Mr. Harrison. What? A $150,000 not enough? How much do you want?"
"I don't want anything."
"How 'bout $100,000?"
"No!"
"How 'bout $50,000?"
"I'll tell you what. Give me and my friends $50,000 markers each."
Jose had brought about $3000 to gamble with but he took the marker and won $12,000. The next day when they were settling up their markers a suit walked up with a disgusted look on his face and said:
"You're not Rick Harrison."
"That's what I tried to tell you last night."
I told Jose I would put this story up on Wizard of Vegas. Now seemed like an opportune time to do it.
Quote: renoAccording to Loto-Quebecs computers, Joel Ifergan placed the order for his 2 lottery tickets at 8:59:47. The first ticket printed out before the lotterys 9pm deadline so it was valid for the May 23 drawing. The second ticket printed out after the 9pm deadline, so it was valid for the May 30 drawing.
This case just demonstrates how greedy are some folks when a large sum of money involved.
Quote: sc15It puzzles me why some casinos don't offer credit.
It's practically one of the best ways to get people to gamble more than they can afford.
True on that. I think we don't offer credit due much to our small size and also the customer base. We do not have many big players here and often the people who do ask us for credit aren't the ones we would offer credit too, even if we did have the ability. Future wise if the economy where to get a bit better and cash flow increases then it might be something we would look into. The additional reporting requirements we would have to follow probably also holds us back a bit too.
