roulette university study
September 8th, 2014 at 2:42:22 PM
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there was a study done on roulette to predict the area the ball will end up
http://staffhome.ecm.uwa.edu.au/~00027830/pdf/Chaos22-6.pdf
and
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/chaos/22/3/10.1063/1.4753920
they made an android app where u tap the screen each time the ball passes 0 (zero)
and by doing that the app calculates how fast the ball is going and the likely coordinates it will end up
interesting
it could never be used for 2 reasons: 1- they dont allow phones at roulette tables in the US and 2- on rapid roulette bets must be placed before the ball spins
the app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=white.simplicity.RoulettePredictorAndCalculatorPro&hl=en
" To do this, we provide a very simple model for the motion of a roulette wheel and ball and demonstrate that knowledge of initial position, velocity, and acceleration is sufficient to predict the outcome with adequate certainty to achieve a positive expected return."
http://staffhome.ecm.uwa.edu.au/~00027830/pdf/Chaos22-6.pdf
and
http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/chaos/22/3/10.1063/1.4753920
they made an android app where u tap the screen each time the ball passes 0 (zero)
and by doing that the app calculates how fast the ball is going and the likely coordinates it will end up
interesting
it could never be used for 2 reasons: 1- they dont allow phones at roulette tables in the US and 2- on rapid roulette bets must be placed before the ball spins
the app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=white.simplicity.RoulettePredictorAndCalculatorPro&hl=en
" To do this, we provide a very simple model for the motion of a roulette wheel and ball and demonstrate that knowledge of initial position, velocity, and acceleration is sufficient to predict the outcome with adequate certainty to achieve a positive expected return."
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 4:14:14 PM
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The algorithms behind the this are old.
In the 80's (80's?) there were cheaters using computers strapped to their bodies, concealed under their clothes, that did math for this. They used toe buttons in their shoes for input. I forget how they got the output.
As a result, many casinos moved the "no more bets" up before the dealer released the ball.
In the 80's (80's?) there were cheaters using computers strapped to their bodies, concealed under their clothes, that did math for this. They used toe buttons in their shoes for input. I forget how they got the output.
As a result, many casinos moved the "no more bets" up before the dealer released the ball.
That's because it would be too easy to use such a device since the dealer often can't see you.Quote: richbailey862- on rapid roulette bets must be placed before the ball spins
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
September 8th, 2014 at 4:37:59 PM
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how about this
an earpiece in my ear
a sophisticated hidden camera.
the dealer throws the ball
a few seconds left to bet
friend uses the app
passes zero twice
friend tells me in my ear piece what numbers to place chips on
an earpiece in my ear
a sophisticated hidden camera.
the dealer throws the ball
a few seconds left to bet
friend uses the app
passes zero twice
friend tells me in my ear piece what numbers to place chips on
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 4:39:01 PM
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Quote: richbailey86how about this
an earpiece in my ear
a sophisticated hidden camera.
the dealer throws the ball
a few seconds left to bet
friend uses the app
passes zero twice
friend tells me in my ear piece what numbers to place chips on
Enjoy your time in prison. Don't drop the soap.
September 8th, 2014 at 4:42:47 PM
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Quote: AxiomOfChoiceEnjoy your time in prison. Don't drop the soap.
was a joke with a dab of wishful thinking
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 4:44:46 PM
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would it be illegal though?
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 4:46:39 PM
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Rather humorous but apt.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceEnjoy your time in prison. Don't drop the soap.
The earlier algorithms were too slow and relied on toe tapping for input... tapping your phone everytime the ball passed any known point would likely be even more slow and inaccurate.
I doubt you would even win once .... and remember you get a mandatory jail sentence in Nevada just for having the device on your person, not for using it or using it profitably. Mere posession.
Chances are the device, even if it gave you the correct number, would do so AFTER the croupier had called it out. But you would still do the mandatory minimum sentence.
September 8th, 2014 at 4:49:33 PM
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Quote: richbailey86would it be illegal though?
Of course it's illegal. You are using a device to predict the outcome of the game. That is right out of the statute.
I assume that you are talking about Nevada. AFAIK most jurisdictions now outlaw devices (certainly, everywhere in the US).
September 8th, 2014 at 4:51:52 PM
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as a casual gambler i did not know it was illegal
thanks for the info
i think the study is true and thats why they keep it tight
thanks for the info
i think the study is true and thats why they keep it tight
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 4:57:53 PM
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while on the roulette topic
i have hear dealers are trained on where to attempt to make the ball fall and can get pretty damn close
true?
i have hear dealers are trained on where to attempt to make the ball fall and can get pretty damn close
true?
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 4:59:53 PM
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Quote: richbailey86while on the roulette topic
i have hear dealers are trained on where to attempt to make the ball fall and can get pretty damn close
true?
One roulette dealer here claims that he can do it. I have my doubts.
This is why some players will not place their bets until after the dealer has released the ball (so that he can't "aim" against them). My opinion is that with a 5+% house edge against them, a cheating dealer is the least of their worries.
September 8th, 2014 at 5:08:38 PM
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I have my doubts as well. Remember you've got those diamond shape blocks on the wheel designed to make the ball bounce a bit (and drop a bit quicker). I just don't see how an app could model that randomness.
September 8th, 2014 at 5:22:04 PM
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How good is this app? I can think of a few situations it could be "legally" used.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 8th, 2014 at 5:24:12 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfHow good is this app? I can think of a few situations it could be "legally" used.
Ha, I know exactly what you are thinking. Do they let you bet late enough? (you will need a couple of revolutions of the ball before you get any data, plus time to place your bet)
September 8th, 2014 at 5:37:32 PM
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in many casinos in Europe, I was there this past summer,Quote: richbailey86as a casual gambler i did not know it was illegal
they are not illegal to have or use but one can easily be banned from playing at a casino where they see you using one of them
easier to team play the table with fast action past-posting methods and/or buy-in and cash out at different denoms
easy money and that stuff is illegal at all casinos
Sally
I Heart Vi Hart
September 8th, 2014 at 5:41:13 PM
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I discussed my idea with you before. As you know things are always changing, but I do think it's doable. Even a few other things we didn't discuss.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceHa, I know exactly what you are thinking. Do they let you bet late enough? (you will need a couple of revolutions of the ball before you get any data, plus time to place your bet)
Nothing is as easy as it may seem. Unless the % and the accuracy was significant, I cant see justifying the time and effort involved. I thought I seen something about this app yielding about 18% over a single zero roulette. That would be fantastic however i assume this was in a lab environment under perfect conditions. No one is going to let you sit and do this under perfect conditions.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 8th, 2014 at 5:44:51 PM
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They let you use your phone at the table, true, but I doubt they let you use your phone to do this. I'm sure they consider it cheating right?.Quote: mustangsallyin many casinos in Europe, I was there this past summer,
they are not illegal to have or use but one can easily be banned from playing at a casino where they see you using one of them
easier to team play the table with fast action past-posting methods and/or buy-in and cash out at different denoms
easy money and that stuff is illegal at all casinos
Sally
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 8th, 2014 at 5:45:18 PM
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if an app can really detect where the ball may fall based on veloicty and the rate it passes numbers and u have a hidden camera and a hidden mic with a friend speaking to u how would they ever know
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 5:47:16 PM
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Ask all the people who had fantastic fool proof ideas but got caught.Quote: richbailey86if an app can really detect where the ball may fall based on veloicty and the rate it passes numbers and u have a hidden camera and a hidden mic with a friend speaking to u how would they ever know
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
September 8th, 2014 at 5:51:38 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearIn the 80's (80's?) there were cheaters using computers strapped to their bodies, concealed under their clothes, that did math for this. They used toe buttons in their shoes for input. I forget how they got the output.
Colored lights in the inside frames of eyeglasses, IIRC - and wasn't this for card counting, instead of roulette tracking?
September 8th, 2014 at 6:22:44 PM
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Roulette computers are not new. They've been around since the late 70s and early 80s. Even before then, visual ballistic players have successfully beaten the casinos without RCs. George Melas, roulette wheel engineer for TCS Huxley, documents various cases on his website. Good old fashion linear regression is not rocket science.
By the way, most of the rapid roulette games still allow betting after the ball is spun. The problem is, there aren't very many of them around any more.
Regarding sector shooting on a live wheel by dealer. Of course it's possible if the right conditions are in place. However, many are going to find it very difficult to grasp the physics involved and comprehend how it's possible, unless they own their own wheel and have examined the spins in slow motion. It's the wheel that makes it possible, not some kind of "super human" skill.
-Keyser
By the way, most of the rapid roulette games still allow betting after the ball is spun. The problem is, there aren't very many of them around any more.
Regarding sector shooting on a live wheel by dealer. Of course it's possible if the right conditions are in place. However, many are going to find it very difficult to grasp the physics involved and comprehend how it's possible, unless they own their own wheel and have examined the spins in slow motion. It's the wheel that makes it possible, not some kind of "super human" skill.
-Keyser
September 8th, 2014 at 6:24:50 PM
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my local casino is resorts world in queens. they make u place the bets then the ball is spun. bets stop then ball spins.
a shame.
to master knowing where the ball goes with visual ballistics id have to goto AC because there they let u place bets a few seconds after the ball is spun. every live dealer i play with lets u place bets for several revolutions
a shame.
to master knowing where the ball goes with visual ballistics id have to goto AC because there they let u place bets a few seconds after the ball is spun. every live dealer i play with lets u place bets for several revolutions
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 6:28:20 PM
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There are still plenty of live games with favorable conditions.
September 8th, 2014 at 7:13:36 PM
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On the organic roulette at my casino, the middle of the table rises so the ball falls in, then it closes. If u r familiar with organic or airball roulette the ball falls in after it hits a pocket
Perhaps u can notate where the zero is when that center closes and then notate the vicinity the ball lands after the spin. Watch it for an hour and see if theres a pattern
Then u can bet the numbers in the specific areas that coincide with where the zero is when the center closes.
If where u r sitting when the center closes the zero is at 3 o clock, for example and the ball lands on 22 then u watch and when the center closes the 0 is at 3 o clock again 10 spins later and its close to 22 there may be something there
then u can say hey wait a minute, when the hole closes up and the zero is at 3 o clock the ball lands in this general area.
it closes then 30 seconds to bet then balls released. Its very timely
Perhaps u can notate where the zero is when that center closes and then notate the vicinity the ball lands after the spin. Watch it for an hour and see if theres a pattern
Then u can bet the numbers in the specific areas that coincide with where the zero is when the center closes.
If where u r sitting when the center closes the zero is at 3 o clock, for example and the ball lands on 22 then u watch and when the center closes the 0 is at 3 o clock again 10 spins later and its close to 22 there may be something there
then u can say hey wait a minute, when the hole closes up and the zero is at 3 o clock the ball lands in this general area.
it closes then 30 seconds to bet then balls released. Its very timely
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 8th, 2014 at 10:23:52 PM
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Quote: richbailey86my local casino is resorts world in queens. they make u place the bets then the ball is spun. bets stop then ball spins.
I live in Dix Hills, so I guess Resorts World would be considered my local casino also.
I never set foot in that place even once yet. I know the video poker and slot machines are all class II games and would rather play BINGO at the local church since at least the winnings would benefit the church.
I was told that the craps games there shot real dice out of a shoot and actually tumble around. Is that actually a fact? Are they virtual dice or real dice coming out of the shoot? Does anyone know if their electronic games of craps or roulette also fall under the class II bingo game main servers, or are they independent from the main server? Can one person play those games or does there have to be a minimum of at least two players at the game or the game wont play like other class II games?
If one player could play those games are they being played off a stand alone RNG?
September 8th, 2014 at 11:22:06 PM
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Quote: 4ofaKindI live in Dix Hills, so I guess Resorts World would be considered my local casino also.
I never set foot in that place even once yet. I know the video poker and slot machines are all class II games and would rather play BINGO at the local church since at least the winnings would benefit the church.
I was told that the craps games there shot real dice out of a shoot and actually tumble around. Is that actually a fact? Are they virtual dice or real dice coming out of the shoot? Does anyone know if their electronic games of craps or roulette also fall under the class II bingo game main servers, or are they independent from the main server? Can one person play those games or does there have to be a minimum of at least two players at the game or the game wont play like other class II games?
If one player could play those games are they being played off a stand alone RNG?
They have two different Craps games.
One: a video Craps game where you have a pair of dice on your personal screen and using your fingers, you "slide" them into a roll. The moment you take your fingers off is when the RNG is triggered and you can just push a button if you don't feel like doing the physical throw.
One guy got mad at me cuz I kept sevening out so next time instead of sliding with my fingers I just slammed on the button and said "Is this better, stupid."
Two: They have a game with real dice which are in a Popper/hopper (like the board game Trouble). Instead of the glass dome bouncing up and down, the floor of the table bounces the dice. This is actually a physical real world throw and is probably more what you are looking for.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
September 8th, 2014 at 11:28:11 PM
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Casinos allow a live croupier to keep accepting bets since it increases the casino's action but even though most casinos do not believe a croupier can "sector shoot", they force the croupier to focus visually on the far corner of the table as he releases the ball, not the wheel.
This means the croupier can not release a ball in relation to any particular sector, the ball still hits all those frets and the player still faces 5.25percent house edge.
This means the croupier can not release a ball in relation to any particular sector, the ball still hits all those frets and the player still faces 5.25percent house edge.
September 9th, 2014 at 3:48:10 AM
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Im in seaford. Whats up neighbor.
The craps uses real dice enlarged ones in a glass bubble.
The roulette is rapid style real table and ball and u place bets on a screen.
Its a fun night out, nice steakhouse and cool bar with live music
The baccarat machine uses real cards deal and shuffled by a machine
Some say the organic roulette is swayed by shots of air I dunno if I buy thay
The craps uses real dice enlarged ones in a glass bubble.
The roulette is rapid style real table and ball and u place bets on a screen.
Its a fun night out, nice steakhouse and cool bar with live music
The baccarat machine uses real cards deal and shuffled by a machine
Some say the organic roulette is swayed by shots of air I dunno if I buy thay
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
September 9th, 2014 at 3:58:16 AM
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University study?
The best one is Persoconi's faculty lunch lecture saying it was too complex to model a bouncing die and the effects of all those protrusions at the end of the table was too complex. His student assistants made more record keeping errors than any illegal edge he had been able to come up with....and that was for an illegal edge!
The best one is Persoconi's faculty lunch lecture saying it was too complex to model a bouncing die and the effects of all those protrusions at the end of the table was too complex. His student assistants made more record keeping errors than any illegal edge he had been able to come up with....and that was for an illegal edge!
September 9th, 2014 at 4:47:15 AM
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Quote: KeyserRoulette computers are not new. They've been around since the late 70s and early 80s.
Maybe even earlier...
"The wearable version of the computer was complete and operational in June of 1961."
While Thorp is widely recognized for pioneering card counting, he did a little work on roulette, too.
May the cards fall in your favor.
September 9th, 2014 at 5:09:48 AM
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I vaguely recall an article from not too long ago about a team of a few people in Europe (I forget which country), but in that country it is legal to use electronic devices at the tables as long as it does not directly influence/alter the game. They won millions of dollars (if I recall correctly) and I think I remember the Casino was pressuring the country to change the law so they can prosecute people who use similiar devices? Does anyone know of this story? Or am I mixing it up with a fictional story? I beleive I read it on some random European Buisness site and have not heard of it from anywhere else?
September 9th, 2014 at 6:22:28 AM
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Quote: darkozThey have a game with real dice which are in a Popper/hopper (like the board game Trouble). Instead of the glass dome bouncing up and down, the floor of the table bounces the dice. This is actually a physical real world throw and is probably more what you are looking for.
I'm not looking for anything to do with that place. Just wanted to know if the table games were confirmed class II sucker games, which I believe every game in that place is based on.
Nothing random about that place as far as I know except for the food. Guess I'll do my own research for facts.
September 9th, 2014 at 1:16:14 PM
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Just a few facts for outside the US
Most casinos (at least in Europe) allow betting after the ball is rolled and usually around a few revolutions before the ball lands.
Also often in some places the Groupier shouts no more bets and punters still place bets for several more seconds like upto 1-2 revolutions before the ball lands without too much trouble from the Pit.
Also in some places there are Video Terminals connected to the Actual Roulette with bets allowed after the ball is rolled.
And many casinos do not mind if you use your mobile phone when playing at the roulette, so you can pretend that you are texting someone
So I do believe it is feasible if the App is as accurate as it says.
BUT, I would still not do it fearing any consequences of being caught doing it with a 'device' even in the absence of 'device' laws in a country.
Most casinos (at least in Europe) allow betting after the ball is rolled and usually around a few revolutions before the ball lands.
Also often in some places the Groupier shouts no more bets and punters still place bets for several more seconds like upto 1-2 revolutions before the ball lands without too much trouble from the Pit.
Also in some places there are Video Terminals connected to the Actual Roulette with bets allowed after the ball is rolled.
And many casinos do not mind if you use your mobile phone when playing at the roulette, so you can pretend that you are texting someone
So I do believe it is feasible if the App is as accurate as it says.
BUT, I would still not do it fearing any consequences of being caught doing it with a 'device' even in the absence of 'device' laws in a country.
September 10th, 2014 at 4:25:28 PM
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Quote: 4ofaKindI'm not looking for anything to do with that place. Just wanted to know if the table games were confirmed class II sucker games, which I believe every game in that place is based on.
Nothing random about that place as far as I know except for the food. Guess I'll do my own research for facts.
the baccarat is real. has to be.
real cards
An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government. Ron Paul
